Fire Bloom .

[notin]

I'm sorry moon, as far as my POV or anyone else's, it's still an apology Bloom tour in here. Other than Bellhorn and a few others, all I'm hearing are what great moves Bloom is making, and how poor Chaim is hamstrung by the "Prime Directive" of an owner who checked out long ago...4 titles was more than enough after 86 years of none. Mission accomplished. This team will suck for years to come...or they get a real GM, get some real game-changer players and some quality aces....adapt or die...right now, it's in hospice care.

 

Actually what I keep seeing is people who hated the 2022 team still seem to want it all back. I’ve asked repeatedly what Eovaldi, Wacha and JD Martinez did last year to merit new contracts and no one wants to answer…

[notin]

True, but if Turner exercises his option for 2024 we're looking at the same thing next year.

 

So look at the bright side. No posts about letting Turner walk only to improve elsewhere…

[vegasbob]

I largely gave him a pass for last year.

 

This year I'm putting on him. I was uneasy through the whole offseason and all my uneasiness has been borne out in reality.

 

Bell 4, I agree. If one could not see by late March that this team was not going to do very well given the roster construction and reliance on many What Ifs . Hope is not a strategy . This group has not jelled into a sense of team, and over the next month to trade deadline many of the 26 will be looking over their shoulder to see if they are coming or going.

 

Then after all the complaints about JH's, Bloom's and Cora's role in the sub-stellar performances, most of the players themselves have not exceeded many, if any expectations. Bello is on the verge of a breakout season, Duran has improved from a low bar, Dugo is useful, Yoshi is not the problem but beyond those guys who is making it happen here ? The reality is that Devers should have 75-80 rbi's . You can blame injuries and accidents but it is still the ultimate basics: score more than the opponent 60% of the time. The general run producing drought is now extending over a full month . That is the cumulation of almost a 1000 AB's. That is the players .

Edited June 30, 2023 by vegasbob

[Bellhorn04]

So $90mill = $110mill?

 

Also JD was worth 1.0 fWAR last year. Yoshida already has 1.3 fWAR…

 

a) You're leaving out the $15 million posting fee. Not on the tax books but still real money.

His fWAR is 0.9, not 1.3.

[Bellhorn04]

Actually what I keep seeing is people who hated the 2022 team still seem to want it all back. I’ve asked repeatedly what Eovaldi, Wacha and JD Martinez did last year to merit new contracts and no one wants to answer…

 

I've answered this plenty of times.

 

Wacha was 11-2 with a 3.32 ERA last year. Nobody said they didn't want him back. Why are you persisting with this?

[dannycater]

Boston collected just four base hits — all singles — while striking out 14 times and going 0-for-3 with runners in scoring position in the series finale with Miami....contact my ass.

[dannycater]

Actually what I keep seeing is people who hated the 2022 team still seem to want it all back. I’ve asked repeatedly what Eovaldi, Wacha and JD Martinez did last year to merit new contracts and no one wants to answer…

 

History said JD had an off season..it happens--10 mil one year not exactly having to spend money on him...Eavoldi proven ace, Wacha--maybe you can argue not sure.

[notin]

History said JD had an off season..it happens--10 mil one year not exactly having to spend money on him...Eavoldi proven ace, Wacha--maybe you can argue not sure.

 

The thing with JD is, he turned 35 last year. Not ancient but not exactly unheard for hitters to start declining at that age, either.

 

Turner is older but at least offers some defensive flexibility. He basically hit the same as Martinez last year…

[dannycater]

The thing with JD is, he turned 35 last year. Not ancient but not exactly unheard for hitters to start declining at that age, either.

 

Turner is older but at least offers some defensive flexibility. He basically hit the same as Martinez last year…

 

Turner is a good dude, good player..JD is an All-Star.

[dgalehouse]

There seems to be no indication as to what the Sox will do at the deadline. ( There seems to be an unwritten rule that a team needs to either buy or sell. ) As stated before , the three wild card gimmick gives hope to all but a few of the really awful teams. So, they need to make a decision. As for Bloom ; I have no idea if he is meeting John Henry's expectations, but he is absolutely losing fan support by the day. You can feel it out and about in Sox Nation, as well as on this forum.

[Bellhorn04]

So look at the bright side. No posts about letting Turner walk only to improve elsewhere…

 

LOL not bad.

[Dipre]

History said JD had an off season..it happens--10 mil one year not exactly having to spend money on him...Eavoldi proven ace, Wacha--maybe you can argue not sure.

 

Eovaldi was a proven ace? JD just had an off season after consecutive years of cratering during the 2nd half and turning 35? Yeah don't let common sense derail you from an argument.

[Dipre]

Turner is a good dude, good player..JD is an All-Star.

 

What exactly does this even mean?

[moonslav59]

I'm sorry moon, as far as my POV or anyone else's, it's still an apology Bloom tour in here. Other than Bellhorn and a few others, all I'm hearing are what great moves Bloom is making, and how poor Chaim is hamstrung by the "Prime Directive" of an owner who checked out long ago...4 titles was more than enough after 86 years of none. Mission accomplished. This team will suck for years to come...or they get a real GM, get some real game-changer players and some quality aces....adapt or die...right now, it's in hospice care.

 

Name one poster who thinks Bloom makes mostly or even half great moves?

 

Giving context is not apologizing. The team ha ssucked due to circustances beyond any GM's control. Has Bloom risen above it and done anything spectacular to make up for the fact that he's and the previous only gotten Houck from the farm since 2017? NO.

 

Bloom is not great. Nobody thinks he is. Nobody ever said he was.

 

His main task was to build up the foundation, and that won't be judged for years.

 

Nobody is saying 4 rings is enough. The idea is to build something sustainable- from the ground up. Has he done that?

 

I sure as hell don't know, and nobody should pretend to know.

[moonslav59]

A quick and non complete look at what each GM was handed from his previous GM.

 

Dan D (to Port) to Theo:

82-79 in 2001

93-69 in 2002 (Pedro, Manny, Nomar, DLowe, Damon, VTek, Nixon, Burkett, Wake

Top Prospects

Freddy Sanchez (traded for Suppan)

HRam (traded for Beckett & Lowell)

Jorge de la Rosa (traded with others for Schilling)

Youkilis

Lester

Shoppach

David Murphy

 

Ben:

90-72 2011 (AGon, Papi, Lester, Beckett, Pedey, Youk, Jake, JD Drew, CC, Lackey, Papelbon, A Miller, Buch

Top prospects:

Betts

Bogey

Iggy

JBJ

Barnes, Doubront, Alex Wilson, Middlebrooks

 

DD

71-91 in 2014 (Betts, Bogey, Uehara, JBJ, Vaz, Pedey, HRam, Pablo, Napoli, ERod, Porcello)

Prospects:

Devers

Moncada & Kopech (Sale)

Margot (Kimbrell)

Espinoza (Pomeranz)

Dubon (Thornburg)

 

Bloom

84-78 in 2019 (Sale, Betts, Bogey, Price, Devers, ERod, Nate, Vaz, JD, Beni)

Prospects

Houck

Casas & Bello

Duran & Dalbec

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Bloom inherited the core of the greatest Red Sox team in franchise history. No fans know exactly what he was told to do with it -- all we know for sure is what Bloom did do, which is strip it down in four years so the only guys left are a brittle overpaid pitcher he can't move, and a still maturing slugger he admittedly "bet on" who could become another Miggy Cabrera or another Pablo Sandoval (but most likely, someone in between).

 

The moves Bloom has made that we can't judge yet are additions to the farm system. A lot of prospects look promising, but right now it's all speculation.

 

The moves Bloom has made that we can judge are the additions to the parent club. His strengths are finding some decent role players, like Whitlock (whose best days so far were as a rookie set-up man). At the same time, Bloom's weakness is jamming square pegs into roster holes, relying too much on utility disguised as versatility... resulting in mediocrity.

 

But no one can say Bloom doesn't spend or sign free agents -- it's all about who he recruits. For every Wacha, it seems like there are a Richards and a Kluber. Luckily for Bloom, when he lets Wacha walk, interns posing as posters try to pretend Kluber is better, and Wacha's a mirage (just like he still must be this season, deluding voters into awarding him NL Pitcher of the Month).

 

Bloom's big money signings excel in one or two aspects -- Yoshida is a consistent hitter and fundamentally sound; Story is a top athlete, with impact potential of speed and power (albeit with inconsistent contributions so far). Neither can be called complete ballplayers, but both are at least elite role players. Let's hope both stay healthy long enough to help form the next core...

[moonslav59]

Bloom inherited the core of the greatest Red Sox team in franchise history. No fans know exactly what he was told to do with it -- all we know for sure is what Bloom did do, which is strip it down in four years so the only guys left are a brittle overpaid pitcher he can't move, and a still maturing slugger he admittedly "bet on" who could become another Miggy Cabrera or another Pablo Sandoval (but most likely, someone in between).

 

The moves Bloom has made that we can't judge yet are additions to the farm system. A lot of prospects look promising, but right now it's all speculation.

 

The moves Bloom has made that we can judge are the additions to the parent club. His strengths are finding some decent role players, like Whitlock (whose best days so far were as a rookie set-up man). At the same time, Bloom's weakness is jamming square pegs into roster holes, relying too much on utility disguised as versatility... resulting in mediocrity.

 

But no one can say Bloom doesn't spend or sign free agents -- it's all about who he recruits. For every Wacha, it seems like there are a Richards and a Kluber. Luckily for Bloom, when he lets Wacha walk, interns posing as posters try to pretend Kluber is better, and Wacha's a mirage (just like he still must be this season, deluding voters into awarding him NL Pitcher of the Month).

 

Bloom's big money signings excel in one or two aspects -- Yoshida is a consistent hitter and fundamentally sound; Story is a top athlete, with impact potential of speed and power (albeit with inconsistent contributions so far). Neither can be called complete ballplayers, but both are at least elite role players. Let's hope both stay healthy long enough to help form the next core...

 

Nice take. I will add that the great players Bloom inherited almost all began to decline or miss entire seasons, almost immediately. He did not inherit 2018 production. Not even 2019.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Nice take. I will add that the great players Bloom inherited almost all began to decline or miss entire seasons, almost immediately. He did not inherit 2018 production. Not even 2019.

 

... except Mookie Who.

 

I seriously doubt there's one single Dodgers fan who regrets or even notices that Verdugo is hitting 30 points higher... not when Betts has 22 home runs and a .923 OPS on July 1.

[moonslav59]

... except Mookie Who.

 

I seriously doubt there's one single Dodgers fan who regrets or even notices that Verdugo is hitting 30 points higher... not when Betts has 22 home runs and a .923 OPS on July 1.

 

Hence the word "almost' ALL.

 

 

BTW, JD and Bogey were one dimensional, too. Only Mookie was multi.

 

Sale has been zero dimension.

 

Porcello never pitched again.

 

Beni? Meh.

 

JBJ? LOL.

 

Price became one-quarter Price.

 

Nate pitched a little more than time not pitching. ERod missed 2020 and has just now regained what he had.

 

The names all sound great, but the production after 2018 or 2019 was MOSTLY not.

[Bellhorn04]

... except Mookie Who.

 

I seriously doubt there's one single Dodgers fan who regrets or even notices that Verdugo is hitting 30 points higher... not when Betts has 22 home runs and a .923 OPS on July 1.

 

Just saying some of the same things over and over here, but I'll always think Bloom did pretty well with the trade of Betts, and I'll always blame Henry for not making a better effort to retain Mookie. Mookie is continuing to play like one of the all-time greats, 4 years into his time with the Dodgers.

[Bellhorn04]

Big dead money on the 2023 team:

 

From DD

Sale 25.6

 

From Bloom

Story 23.3

Kluber 10

Barnes/Bleier 8.7

Total 42

[Bellhorn04]

Bloom had a very challenging assignment and little room for costly errors.

 

The problem is he has gone ahead and made too many costly errors.

 

Hence back to back sub-.500 teams.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Just saying some of the same things over and over here, but I'll always think Bloom did pretty well with the trade of Betts, and I'll always blame Henry for not making a better effort to retain Mookie. Mookie is continuing to play like one of the all-time greats, 4 years into his time with the Dodgers.

 

But just think of those poor fans in Southern California stressing right now about the last few years of Betts' contract in the 2030s. There's gotta be at least none of them...

[Bellhorn04]

But just think of those poor fans in Southern California stressing right now about the last few years of Betts' contract in the 2030s. There's gotta be at least none of them...

 

The Dodgers pounced brilliantly on the golden opportunity handed them by the Sox. Poetic revenge for the Punto trade perhaps.

[Dipre]

Or that time we pawned off a bunch of bums on 'em then proceeded to win a world series.

[Bellhorn04]

Or that time we pawned off a bunch of bums on 'em then proceeded to win a world series.

 

'At's what I meant. The Punto trade! I stole that 'cause I like it.

[moonslav59]

Big dead money on the 2023 team:

 

From DD

Sale 25.6

 

From Bloom

Story 23.3

Kluber 10

Barnes/Bleier 8.7

Total 42

 

Yup. This is Bloom’s team now.

[cp176]

Just saying some of the same things over and over here, but I'll always think Bloom did pretty well with the trade of Betts, and I'll always blame Henry for not making a better effort to retain Mookie. Mookie is continuing to play like one of the all-time greats, 4 years into his time with the Dodgers.

 

I love Devers (for the most part) but considering him the face of the franchise after watching a future Hall of Fame walk is silly. I could likely recover from Bogaerts being allowed to walk, if this team was just reasonably solid up the middle - they aren't.

 

In Bloom's defense, I think this team has been afflicted with their fare share of bad luck. A starting pitching lineup featuring Sale, Paxton, Bello, Houk, Whitlock, etc on paper doesn't look too bad. The bullpen in my estimation is ok i guess. Chang at ss would certainly have given us a ss who can make plays. Regardless of the win last night, the error by Devers stands out clearly in my mind. A major league ss makes that play not your second baseman. i'll give Arroyo all kinds of credit though for clearly taking control of that situation. he would have made that play. Devers has made strides defensively but that play certainly shows that he has a ways to go. Oh, if Paxton continues to throw the way he has been, it would be silly not to make an attempt to sign him regardless of his age. i don't get hung up so much on the age thing. I am not a bloom hater but not realizing the need to be better defensively particularly up the middle is absolutely on him. With respect to or minor league system yes he has added players to it. I see that as something any GM would have done. You lose very very good players you are able at least increase your numbers at the minor league level. Has he done a superior job by picking up the right players? I don't know. None of us will know for a while it seems.

[cp176]

Just saying some of the same things over and over here, but I'll always think Bloom did pretty well with the trade of Betts, and I'll always blame Henry for not making a better effort to retain Mookie. Mookie is continuing to play like one of the all-time greats, 4 years into his time with the Dodgers.

 

I likely will never get over the Betts trade and in hindsight I find it to look worse and worse every single day. I accepted losing Bogaerts because I do think that his talent is replaceable. With Betts, not so much.

[a700hitter]

Just saying some of the same things over and over here, but I'll always think Bloom did pretty well with the trade of Betts, and I'll always blame Henry for not making a better effort to retain Mookie. Mookie is continuing to play like one of the all-time greats, 4 years into his time with the Dodgers.

Mookie is a generational talent. He followed in the footsteps of Ruth, Williams, Yaz, Rice and Ortiz. You don’t let guys like that leave. He is still playing great and has become more versatile playing 2B and SS and doing it like a star. Not keeping him was immensely stupid. I don’t care who called that shot.

 

Congratulations to the Red Sox for creating another Babe Ruth situation 100 years later.