Fire Bloom .

[mvp 78]

Debatable about Eovaldi.

 

Overall, it hasn't been a good use of resources.

[mvp 78]

Rumors came out that Dombrowski had kind of cut himself off from the rest of the organization, other than a couple of close allies, that there was no communication etc. Whether that was a cover story I don't know.

 

This came straight from Speier from what I remember.

[Bellhorn04]

Overall, it hasn't been a good use of resources.

 

The question is who would have been a better choice.

[mvp 78]

The pandemic might have had something to do with Mookie signing for $365M and not closer to $400M.

 

No.

[Bellhorn04]

This came straight from Speier from what I remember.

 

I think it all started with Shank.

[Bellhorn04]

No.

 

How can you be sure? He took all that deferred money, too.

[mvp 78]

The question is who would have been a better choice.

 

Morton

Ryu

[mvp 78]

How can you be sure? He took all that deferred money, too.

 

There's lots of deferred money thrown around these days, that's not abnormal.

 

How can you guys be so sure it was the pandemic?

[mvp 78]

I think it all started with Shank.

 

I heard an interview with Speier where he was discussing it directly and had sources state as much.

[Bellhorn04]

There's lots of deferred money thrown around these days, that's not abnormal.

 

How can you guys be so sure it was the pandemic?

 

The timing.

 

Not saying I'm sure, but I can't see ruling it out. After waiting all that time to get to free agency, why give in with one season to go?

[moonslav59]

No.

 

Maybe not closer to $400M but likely more than $365M. Yes.

[mvp 78]

Maybe not closer to $400M but likely more than $365M. Yes.

 

Why? This doesn't make sense at all. When you're Mookie Betts, the pandemic doesn't affect your contract. His ask of $420 wasn't a demand, but part of a negotiation. Sox chose to withdraw rather than meet in the middle which would have been close to $365. Makes more sense that $365 is closer to what he actually expected regardless of the pandemic. People just use the pandemic as an excuse for why the contract wasn't as large as they thought it was going to be.

[mvp 78]

The timing.

 

Not saying I'm sure, but I can't see ruling it out. After waiting all that time to get to free agency, why give in with one season to go?

 

He gave in because he finally got $365M which is a f***-ton of money.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe not closer to $400M but likely more than $365M. Yes.

 

With the deferred money, the present value of Mookie's deal is more like $310 million.

 

So the Dodgers got 2 additional years for $10 million.

 

Something doesn't compute...

[mvp 78]

With the deferred money, the present value of Mookie's deal is more like $310 million.

 

So the Dodgers got 2 additional years for $10 million.

 

Something doesn't compute...

 

As I've said before, baseball players are dumb and don't care about things like the present value of money. He wanted more than $350M and he got it.

[moonslav59]

Why? This doesn't make sense at all. When you're Mookie Betts, the pandemic doesn't affect your contract. His ask of $420 wasn't a demand, but part of a negotiation. Sox chose to withdraw rather than meet in the middle which would have been close to $365. Makes more sense that $365 is closer to what he actually expected regardless of the pandemic. People just use the pandemic as an excuse for why the contract wasn't as large as they thought it was going to be.

 

The pandemic reduced many players' pay. The future of the economy and life, itself was largely unknown.

 

Of course, it's just speculation, but IMO, the Dodgers would have offered a little more had their been no pandemic and blue skies were on the horizon.

 

It's also speculation to say $365M was the most he could ever get.

[moonslav59]

With the deferred money, the present value of Mookie's deal is more like $310 million.

 

So the Dodgers got 2 additional years for $10 million.

 

Something doesn't compute...

 

The pandemic is about all that "computes," IMO.

[Hugh2]

The timing.

 

Not saying I'm sure, but I can't see ruling it out. After waiting all that time to get to free agency, why give in with one season to go?

 

I think it's very fair to speculate that the pandemic changed a lot. There was so much uncertainty in the world, and $365 million dollars looks like whole lotta money when everything else is a s*** show.

 

I think Mookie had every intention of going to free agency, if the Sox had held onto him for the season and he was here when the pandemic hit maybe he ended up signing here for less, maybe not, we will never know.

[mvp 78]

The pandemic reduced many players' pay.

 

Whose pay?

[Bellhorn04]

I think it's very fair to speculate that the pandemic changed a lot. There was so much uncertainty in the world, and $365 million dollars looks like whole lotta money when everything else is a s*** show.

 

I think Mookie had every intention of going to free agency, if the Sox had held onto him for the season and he was here when the pandemic hit maybe he ended up signing here for less, maybe not, we will never know.

 

With all that said, if the Red Sox were counting on Mookie becoming a free agent, they sure as heck traded him to the wrong team.

[mvp 78]

The pandemic is about all that "computes," IMO.

 

Not Red Sox $ + Mookie $ / 2 = Dodgers $? Ok.

 

I think Occam's Razor should be applied here.

[Bellhorn04]

Whose pay?

 

I think it was reported that average pay went down in 2020 and 2021.

[mvp 78]

With all that said, if the Red Sox were counting on Mookie becoming a free agent, they sure as heck traded him to the wrong team.

 

I think they decided they weren't going to re-sign him.

[moonslav59]

I think they decided they weren't going to re-sign him.

 

Under Henry, there is a long history of making an offer to a star who is nearing free agency, and then not budging or barely budging from that first offer. Many of the departing stars went on to decline, pretty quickly. Others did well, but often their replacements did just as well or better for a lower cost.

DLowe

Nomar

Pedro

Damon

Beckett/AGon/CC

Papelbon

Ellsbury

Lester

Lackey

Kimbrel & Kelly

Porcello

Betts & Price

Workman

ERod

 

(Manny was a special case.)

 

Others not so entrenched in Sox lore or not mega stars:

Nixon

Mueller

Beltre

A Miller

Doubront

Vic

JBJ (then brought him back!)

Moreland

Beni

 

Some they might have wished they traded before their declines or not brought back:

Foulke

Lowell (just one bad last year)

Lugo

Youk

JD Drew

Pearce

Sale

 

[Old Red]

Under Henry, there is a long history of making an offer to a star who is nearing free agency, and then not budging or barely budging from that first offer. Many of the departing stars went on to decline, pretty quickly. Others did well, but often their replacements did just as well or better for a lower cost.

DLowe

Nomar

Pedro

Damon

Beckett/AGon/CC

Papelbon

Ellsbury

Lester

Lackey

Kimbrel & Kelly

Porcello

Betts & Price

Workman

ERod

 

(Manny was a special case.)

 

Others not so entrenched in Sox lore or not mega stars:

Nixon

Mueller

Beltre

A Miller

Doubront

Vic

JBJ (then brought him back!)

Moreland

Beni

 

Some they might have wished they traded before their declines or not brought back:

Foulke

Lowell (just one bad last year)

Lugo

Youk

JD Drew

Pearce

Sale

 

 

This is fine, but it’s also ancient history, and this is a whole new day, and time, and like I keep saying this is now a different JH.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The timing.

 

Not saying I'm sure, but I can't see ruling it out. After waiting all that time to get to free agency, why give in with one season to go?

 

Maybe because he already landed in the city and state where he wanted to work? (inferred the poster)

[mvp 78]

Under Henry, there is a long history of making an offer to a star who is nearing free agency, and then not budging or barely budging from that first offer. Many of the departing stars went on to decline, pretty quickly. Others did well, but often their replacements did just as well or better for a lower cost.

DLowe

Nomar

Pedro

Damon

Beckett/AGon/CC

Papelbon

Ellsbury

Lester

Lackey

Kimbrel & Kelly

Porcello

Betts & Price

Workman

ERod

 

In this list, you've included Kelly, Workman, Porcello, Beckett, AGon and CC.

 

Did they ever offer extending AGon/CC/Beckett from above what they already signed? I don't remember hearing this?

 

Kelly and Workman were relievers who left and nobody was all that concerned about.

 

Porcello? Did they offer an extension to him? Ever?

 

Were they talking about extending Nomar/Pedro/DLowe at all? I don't remember that happening either? I think they just saw those guys as getting older and letting them out the door.

[mvp 78]

Did they offer an extension to Adrian Beltre? This is the first I've heard of it!

[moonslav59]

This is fine, but it’s also ancient history, and this is a whole new day, and time, and like I keep saying this is now a different JH.

 

That history is mostly good. He and his GMs mostly made wise choices trading or letting stars and semi-stars go at just the right time.

 

Some on this list are not so "ancient," and with the Bogey departure up in the air, "history could be in the making or continuing as is, this winter.

[moonslav59]

Whose pay?

 

Only 4 players got over $65M in the '20-'21 off season.

 

I didn't see any Seagers or Semien overpays that winter.