Fire Bloom .

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Bottom of the 9th, behind by 1, bases loaded, 2 out. Boom Boom Bloom at the plate.

 

Now you're just being inciteful.

 

Luckily, there are two outs, so just making contact (when all 2022 Red Sox ghost hitters know better than to touch the ball) won't suffice.

 

Has Bloom learned anything by watching this season? Will he/can he, be as deft as Devers -- and swing at a two-strike bounce-pitch that kangaroos over the backstop?

[moonslav59]

I’m not very optimistic about next years team, if we go with what’s been on the field lately and add bottom of the barrel pitching (old and injured) I don’t see us moving up in the standings at all, especially if they don’t replace DJ’s bat, because the other teams in our division will make an honest effort to improve.

 

I'm less optimistic about 2023 as I was before this season began, but I do see some hope. If we can slightly improve at most positions and make significant upgrades at 3-5 others, I think we can compete for a playoff slot in 2023. I doubt we can compete for a ring in '23 without going way over the tax line (not likely.)

 

I know many might disagree with these assessments, especially at C and DH, but here is my pink sunglasses view:

 

Catcher: I honestly like McGuire & Wong more than Vaz & Plawecki. Remember, Vaz has not always been over .700. He is a career .695 hitter, which is not bad for a catcher and .683 from 2021-2022. It's no secret my views on how he handles the staff.

 

1B: Casas-Hosmer-Dalbec should be a major improvement over Dalbec-Cordero both on O and D.

 

DH: I truly believe we can match our .750 DH OPS, in 2023 without adding anyone. A platoon or rotation from a few of these guys may get the job done: Hosmer/Dalbec/Arroyo/Refsnyder/Pham/ EValdez. (This is the one slot I have the least faith in.)

 

2B: A healthy Story & Arroyo could be a major plus-plus here.

 

3B: A healthy and motivated Devers could easily blow away his 2022 numbers. His D has greatly improved.

 

LF: Dugo + Pham is better than Dugo+ Duran

 

CF: A healthy Kike should blow away our mix & match 2022 CF'ers.

 

RF: I think we need to add here, but Dugo+Refnsyder should be better than JBJ + mix'n'match of 2022.

 

SS: The one area we may decline, unless we bring Bogey back. I would think Bogey could be better in 2023 than 2022. If we take a step back, here, the other plusses should outweigh this minus, especially if we upgrade at RF. (Ref could play 4th OF & DH more)

 

The pitching is the big question mark, and it is so complicated by injuries and unknown roles that it's hard to do a 2022 to 2023 side-by-side comp.

 

We will or may lose:

 

Clear Pluses:

Wacha

 

Kinda plusses:

Nate

Strahm

Hill

 

Kinda minuses:

Feliz

less from Danish & PValdez

 

Clear minuses:

Diekman

Sawamura

Robles

Davis

Familia

maybe of less IP from: Wink, Seabold, Brasier, Ort, Danish, DHern

 

Maybe more IP from...

Whitlock

Houck

Schreiber

Crawford

Bello

Maybe something good from Mata, TWard, Walter, German, Kelly

 

We need to add 3-5 solid pitchers to just improve on 2022. Bringing back Wacha (QO?) would likely not be an improvement over 2022, but would be a very nice start.

[Bobe2]

I'm less optimistic about 2023 as I was before this season began, but I do see some hope. If we can slightly improve at most positions and make significant upgrades at 3-5 others, I think we can compete for a playoff slot in 2023. I doubt we can compete for a ring in '23 without going way over the tax line (not likely.)

 

I know many might disagree with these assessments, especially at C and DH, but here is my pink sunglasses view:

 

Catcher: I honestly like McGuire & Wong more than Vaz & Plawecki. Remember, Vaz has not always been over .700. He is a career .695 hitter, which is not bad for a catcher and .683 from 2021-2022. It's no secret my views on how he handles the staff.

 

1B: Casas-Hosmer-Dalbec should be a major improvement over Dalbec-Cordero both on O and D.

 

DH: I truly believe we can match our .750 DH OPS, in 2023 without adding anyone. A platoon or rotation from a few of these guys may get the job done: Hosmer/Dalbec/Arroyo/Refsnyder/Pham/ EValdez. (This is the one slot I have the least faith in.)

 

2B: A healthy Story & Arroyo could be a major plus-plus here.

 

3B: A healthy and motivated Devers could easily blow away his 2022 numbers. His D has greatly improved.

 

LF: Dugo + Pham is better than Dugo+ Duran

 

CF: A healthy Kike should blow away our mix & match 2022 CF'ers.

 

RF: I think we need to add here, but Dugo+Refnsyder should be better than JBJ + mix'n'match of 2022.

 

SS: The one area we may decline, unless we bring Bogey back. I would think Bogey could be better in 2023 than 2022. If we take a step back, here, the other plusses should outweigh this minus, especially if we upgrade at RF. (Ref could play 4th OF & DH more)

 

The pitching is the big question mark, and it is so complicated by injuries and unknown roles that it's hard to do a 2022 to 2023 side-by-side comp.

 

We will or may lose:

 

Clear Pluses:

Wacha

 

Kinda plusses:

Nate

Strahm

Hill

 

Kinda minuses:

Feliz

less from Danish & PValdez

 

Clear minuses:

Diekman

Sawamura

Robles

Davis

Familia

maybe of less IP from: Wink, Seabold, Brasier, Ort, Danish, DHern

 

Maybe more IP from...

Whitlock

Houck

Schreiber

Crawford

Bello

Maybe something good from Mata, TWard, Walter, German, Kelly

 

We need to add 3-5 solid pitchers to just improve on 2022. Bringing back Wacha (QO?) would likely not be an improvement over 2022, but would be a very nice start.

If Bogaerts opts out now your looking at Story at ss and Kiki at second and you’ve lost a .300 hitter with an outfield that leaves a lot to be desired on defense, JD had a horrible year for power one of the many reasons we were so bad, but we need a guy like him that can get 30 or 40 hr. I think the Sale from 2018 is gone, what we get might not be very impressive. Paxton hasn’t pitched since 2019 he has a mutual option with Sox for2 more years, and I believe a good raise goes with it, I doubt the Sox want to keep him but they don’t have the finale say, ( not a good contract for Sox unless he returns to form)catching looks fine so far but McGuire has never produced like this offensively only time will tell, Whitlock had hip surgery, look for him in bp same thing with Houck disc, one year contracts for hurt or old pitchers is not encouraging, all the while the other 4 teams in the division actually try to improve,

[moonslav59]

If Bogaerts opts out now your looking at Story at ss and Kiki at second and you’ve lost a .300 hitter with an outfield that leaves a lot to be desired on defense, JD had a horrible year for power one of the many reasons we were so bad, but we need a guy like him that can get 30 or 40 hr. I think the Sale from 2018 is gone, what we get might not be very impressive. Paxton hasn’t pitched since 2019 he has a mutual option with Sox for2 more years, and I believe a good raise goes with it, I doubt the Sox want to keep him but they don’t have the finale say, ( not a good contract for Sox unless he returns to form)catching looks fine so far but McGuire has never produced like this offensively only time will tell, Whitlock had hip surgery, look for him in bp same thing with Houck disc, one year contracts for hurt or old pitchers is not encouraging, all the while the other 4 teams in the division actually try to improve,

 

I seriously doubt we move Story to SS. Even more for Kike to 2B. If we did move Story to SS, we might sign KWong or hope EValdez can shine with Arroyo as an option, if he can stay on the field.

[moonslav59]

catching looks fine so far but McGuire has never produced like this offensively only time will tell, Whitlock had hip surgery

 

They got McGuire for his D, IMO. Any O is a plus. I expect .650 to.700 from him going forward. Wong can PH for him, late in games.

 

Career OPS

 

.685 McGuire

.695 Vaz

 

.703 Wong

.655 Plawecki

 

I'm not expecting improved catcher O, but it would not surprise me. Vaz had a nice year on O, the first 4 months of 2022, so I'm not expecting above .740, but I do expect improved D and work with the staff.

[Bobe2]

The websites I looked at had Boston losing around 140 million in payroll this year, you could make a very good team if that money is spent wisely, recently though the Red Sox announced that they had a budget of 60 million to spend this winter. What happened? Now this is just my opinion but I think Henry and ownership are trying to con Red Sox nation by putting a cheap team of prospects on the field with just enough help to not be in the cellar and make an occasional wild card appearance, but don’t count on any rings, they’re just trying to improve how they are perceived and not really build a contender. As long as their good enough to put people back in the seats is all they care.

[Hugh2]

Don't catchers also tend to be late bloomers offensively? He's only 27 years old. Still, I'm fine with the Wong/McGuire combo batting 9th if they're stronger up/down the lineup elsewhere.

[Hugh2]

The websites I looked at had Boston losing around 140 million in payroll this year, you could make a very good team if that money is spent wisely, recently though the Red Sox announced that they had a budget of 60 million to spend this winter. What happened? Now this is just my opinion but I think Henry and ownership are trying to con Red Sox nation by putting a cheap team of prospects on the field with just enough help to not be in the cellar and make an occasional wild card appearance, but don’t count on any rings, they’re just trying to improve how they are perceived and not really build a contender. As long as their good enough to put people back in the seats is all they care.

 

well the 140 million number is just wrong, it's closer to 100 million and that's assuming Bogaert's ops out, if he does not it's 80 million coming off, and they've already committed 10 to Kike, so they probably have about another 65 -70 million to spend at this point.

[Bobe2]

I seriously doubt we move Story to SS. Even more for Kike to 2B. If we did move Story to SS, we might sign KWong or hope EValdez can shine with Arroyo as an option, if he can stay on the field.

 

If Bogey leaves it’s because of money they don’t want to spend so you really don’t really think that they would spend any money do you, all the drama around Bogaerts is because they don’t want to pay him a salary in line with other players of his talent, so it only goes to reason that they wouldn’t spend it on a free agent. So it’s Story or Downs. If you think this team will make leaps and bounds improving this year I’m afraid you going to be disappointed

[moonslav59]

well the 140 million number is just wrong, it's closer to 100 million and that's assuming Bogaert's ops out, if he does not it's 80 million coming off, and they've already committed 10 to Kike, so they probably have about another 65 -70 million to spend at this point.

 

We will also see a hefty arb raise for Devers (3rd Arbs out of 3, tend to be the largest increase.)

 

We also have these arbs:

Pivetta, Arroyo, Refsnyder & Dugo 2 of 3

McGuire arb 1 of 3

[moonslav59]

If Bogey leaves it’s because of money they don’t want to spend so you really don’t really think that they would spend any money do you, all the drama around Bogaerts is because they don’t want to pay him a salary in line with other players of his talent, so it only goes to reason that they wouldn’t spend it on a free agent. So it’s Story or Downs. If you think this team will make leaps and bounds improving this year I’m afraid you going to be disappointed

 

I think they may offer Bogey slightly more than what they gave Story- maybe $150M/6. If he says no, I think they offer Swanson $20M/yr and us that other $5M to add to what they were planning on spending at RF, SP and the pen. That's how I think they plan. They have plan Bs, Cs, ds and maybe even run past the alphabet.

 

I might rather have Sawnson and Nimmo than Bogey and Mancini.

[Bobe2]

I think they may offer Bogey slightly more than what they gave Story- maybe $150M/6. If he says no, I think they offer Swanson $20M/yr and us that other $5M to add to what they were planning on spending at RF, SP and the pen. That's how I think they plan. They have plan Bs, Cs, ds and maybe even run past the alphabet.

 

I might rather have Sawnson and Nimmo than Bogey and Mancini.

 

Bogaerts doesn’t want to opt out, I think Boris and him are planning on discussing this directly with JH at end of season, so if Bogey opts out it means he’s gone

[Bobe2]

well the 140 million number is just wrong, it's closer to 100 million and that's assuming Bogaert's ops out, if he does not it's 80 million coming off, and they've already committed 10 to Kike, so they probably have about another 65 -70 million to spend at this point.

 

That’s a long way from 140, I wasn’t looking at lux tax payroll

[Bobe2]

The Redsox are planning to offer an extension to Devers this winter, with the way players salaries are going they are saying it wouldn’t be out of the question for him to receive an offer of $300 million, I can’t see this version of the Sox offering anything close to that, I think they are making the offer early because if they lowball him and he refuses they will trade him this winter

[Old Red]

500

 

2 wins down, and 7 wins to go.

[Hugh2]

The Redsox are planning to offer an extension to Devers this winter, with the way players salaries are going they are saying it wouldn’t be out of the question for him to receive an offer of $300 million, I can’t see this version of the Sox offering anything close to that, I think they are making the offer early because if they lowball him and he refuses they will trade him this winter

 

They’re not trading Devers. And they’re not never signing a big contract again. They’re top 5 spenders every year.

[Hugh2]

If Bogaerts opts out now your looking at Story at ss and Kiki at second and you’ve lost a .300 hitter with an outfield that leaves a lot to be desired on defense, JD had a horrible year for power one of the many reasons we were so bad, but we need a guy like him that can get 30 or 40 hr. I think the Sale from 2018 is gone, what we get might not be very impressive. Paxton hasn’t pitched since 2019 he has a mutual option with Sox for2 more years, and I believe a good raise goes with it, I doubt the Sox want to keep him but they don’t have the finale say, ( not a good contract for Sox unless he returns to form)catching looks fine so far but McGuire has never produced like this offensively only time will tell, Whitlock had hip surgery, look for him in bp same thing with Houck disc, one year contracts for hurt or old pitchers is not encouraging, all the while the other 4 teams in the division actually try to improve,

 

Why does everyone assume alike moves to second and Story to SS.

 

Story ha lost arm strength, and that will hurt his value back at SS. The new shift and base rules will add more value on arm strength and range at 2nd. Story is perfect at 2nd, and Kike is a GG caliber CFer. Also, there is a good market for SS, but not a very good on for outfielders. Kike and Story are at CF/2B no matter what Bogaerts does.

[Hugh2]

The article in the Globe says it all. The Red Sox need to win the next off season to avoid being a punchline again next year. Bloom you are up.

 

Screw the off-season, pundits are often wrong, they need to actual win games next year.

[Old Red]

Screw the off-season, pundits are often wrong, they need to actual win games next year.

 

Screw the off-season? This is a real big off season, and the decisions made will go a long way to determine if the Red Sox will be any better next year, and years after that.

[moonslav59]

Why does everyone assume alike moves to second and Story to SS.

 

 

I think 2 people have mentioned it as a possible option, and even they are not "assuming" the Sox will do it.

[moonslav59]

[/b] named Hugh;1500221]They’re not trading Devers. And they’re not never signing a big contract again. They’re top 5 spenders every year.

 

I think we will sign someone large and long again, but maybe not Devers, and maybe not until after we re-set the tax in 2023 or 2024.

[Old Red]

I think 2 people have mentioned it as a possible option, and even they are not "assuming" the Sox will do it.

 

Neither Bloom, or Cora have said anything about plans for next year so everything on here is nothing , but pure speculation.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Neither Bloom, or Cora have said anything about plans for next year so everything on here is nothing , but pure speculation.

 

Of course it is, and anything is on the table. Every player in the system is trade bait.

 

Personally, I'd be surprised if Bloom parted with any of the four or five prospects the organization projects as future core members of the next sustained contender (and the first since the 00s Red Sox). And part of the reason is they'll all earn minimum wage upon promotion, with the potential to sign lucrative, albeit below-market contracts.

 

Guesses include Casas, Bello, Mayer, Rafaela, Bleis, Perales. Anyone else?

Edited September 29, 2022 by 5GoldGloves:OF,75

[notin]

The article in the Globe says it all. The Red Sox need to win the next off season to avoid being a punchline again next year. Bloom you are up.

 

“Win the off-season”? What does that even mean?

[mvp 78]

“Win the off-season”? What does that even mean?

 

Winning the off-season also doesn't typically lead to winning a WS title for the RS.

 

2011?

 

TOR has won the off-season title a few times recently and they haven't won a real ring since cars came with manual options.

[Hugh2]

Screw the off-season? This is a real big off season, and the decisions made will go a long way to determine if the Red Sox will be any better next year, and years after that.

 

It's all about outcomes. If the Sox "win the offseason" but perform bad how will that be perceived? We've been here before, remember the monster offseason Boston had after the 2010 season in which they went out and got Carl Crawford, Adrian Gonzalez and they were supposed to have a super team? They won that offseason but went on an epic collapse. Suppose Bloom has a mediocre offseason, with maybe a big move and a bunch of under-the-radar moves that pan out and this team wins 92 games next and wins it all. Then who cares if he had a bad offseason?

 

I get what your saying, for the sake of not arguing semantics, the Red Sox have some serious roster construction to do. I'm just saying that in the end, he will be judged by the results of the 2023 season...and that's fair.

[moonslav59]

Neither Bloom, or Cora have said anything about plans for next year so everything on here is nothing , but pure speculation.

 

Yes, of course, it is. Occasionally, one of gets something right. Like blind squirrels climbing over broken clocks.

[mvp 78]

It's all about outcomes. If the Sox "win the offseason" but perform bad how will that be perceived? We've been here before, remember the monster offseason Boston had after the 2010 season in which they went out and got Carl Crawford, Adrian Gonzalez and they were supposed to have a super team? They won that offseason but went on an epic collapse. Suppose Bloom has a mediocre offseason, with maybe a big move and a bunch of under-the-radar moves that pan out and this team wins 92 games next and wins it all. Then who cares if he had a bad offseason?

 

I get what your saying, for the sake of not arguing semantics, the Red Sox have some serious roster construction to do. I'm just saying that in the end, he will be judged by the results of the 2023 season...and that's fair.

 

2013 was a "monster" offseason for Cherington with the pickups that were made, but I don't think many people saw it that way initially. Under the radar players can make all the difference.

 

In order of signing date:

Stephen Drew

Brock Holt trade

Ryan Dempster

Koji Uehara

Shane Victorino

Jonny Gomes

Mike Napoli

Mike Carp trade

 

Those pieces don't jump out at you, but as part of a larger picture they help create a solid foundation of a team that just played their guts out.

[moonslav59]

Of course it is, and anything is on the table. Every player in the system is trade bait.

 

Personally, I'd be surprised if Bloom parted with any of the four or five prospects the organization projects as future core members of the next sustained contender (and the first since the 00s Red Sox). And part of the reason is they'll all earn minimum wage upon promotion, with the potential to sign lucrative, albeit below-market contracts.

 

Guesses include Casas, Bello, Mayer, Rafaela, Bleis, Perales. Anyone else?

 

I'd add Mata and Romero- maybe Walter.

 

What can we get for Paulino & Wikelman? Adding Lugo, Murphy or Ward won't up the return needle, too much, either.

 

A long shot might be for Bloom to identify the one top prospect he thinks has the least chance to shine brightly and package him with Wikelman and others to get something low-cost and with 3+ years of team control.

 

If we can fill one major slot via trade- most likely a solid SP'er or closer, I think the $60-65M can be used way more effectively to fill the other 3-4 slots remaining.

[moonslav59]

2013 was a "monster" offseason for Cherington with the pickups that were made, but I don't think many people saw it that way initially. Under the radar players can make all the difference.

 

In order of signing date:

Stephen Drew

Brock Holt trade

Ryan Dempster

Koji Uehara

Shane Victorino

Jonny Gomes

Mike Napoli

Mike Carp trade

 

Those pieces don't jump out at you, but as part of a larger picture they help create a solid foundation of a team that just played their guts out.

 

The bigger part of the Holt trade was supposed to be Joel Hanrahan.

 

I was really down on those winter moves and felt like we were playing it "half way."

 

I hated the Dempster signing and thought the Vic deal was 1-2 years, too long.

 

The Iggy & Montas for peavy trade helped a lot in 2013, but longterm was a losing trade.