Fire Bloom .

[Bellhorn04]

He is expected to opt out, but he is the ultimate Buyer Beware free agent pitcher whose injury history is as long as all of the other MLB pitchers combined…

 

How many free agent pitchers aren't Buyer Beware?

[Bellhorn04]

I still think Syndergaard is worth considering. His numbers this year are nothing spectacular, but that should keep the cost from being exorbitant.

[Bellhorn04]

Four possible ways to acquire a pitcher:

 

1) Draft and develop.

2) Trade.

3) Free agent signing for real money.

4) Dumpster dive.

[Bellhorn04]

Rodon and Syndergaard actually have similar profiles. Both right around 30 years old, both with about 850 MLB innings under their belts, both with around 16.5 bWAR.

 

We have to sign somebody like these one of these two.

 

notin's guy Snell also has a very similar profile to these two.

Edited October 2, 2022 by Bellhorn04

[moonslav59]

8-10-18

 

8 games under 500

 

10th place in the league

 

18th place overall

 

JH should be pissed that this is what he’s paying $200M+ for. Think he’s patting Bloom on the back, and saying a job well done?

 

Is he patting DD on the back for much of that $200M?

[moonslav59]

Four possible ways to acquire a pitcher:

 

1) Draft and IFA, then develop.

2) Trade.

3) Free agent signing for real money.

4) Dumpster dive.

5) Rule 5 (rare)

 

I added some minor adjustments.

 

It's obvious Bloom's focus has mostly been on all 5 ways, with the FA choice being limited by a fairly strict winter spending budget- not strict in the sense that he had to spend less than 20 other GMs did, except before 2020, but strict in the sense that $40M AAV to fill 10-15 slots is not going to get you a Verlander.

[Old Red]

Is he patting DD on the back for much of that $200M?

 

Ah the old blame DD. Of course Bloom hasn’t done much in his 3 yrs on the job to rectify the situation except trading Mookie. Now I guess the big plan is to let some of the expiring contracts just run out. Ingenious!

[moonslav59]

Rodon and Syndergaard actually have similar profiles. Both right around 30 years old, both with about 850 MLB innings under their belts, both with around 16.5 bWAR.

 

We have to sign somebody like these one of these two.

 

notin's guy Snell also has a very similar profile to these two.

 

I remember when we signed Pablito & HRam; the talk was we should have signed Scherzer. The following winter, we broke our self-imposed rule of no long term deals to anyone over 30, when we signed Pric e to $210M/7. At that time, I felt like Price had the type of profile worth overpaying for and giving an extra year or two. Even he did not work out as hoped or planned.

 

Now, are Rodon and Syndergaard really the types of pitchers we want to go large and long on? Granted, they may accept less than 7 years, but I'm just not feeling the optimism with just about any FA SP'er, this year- not that my feelings matter, as I have been wrong so many times on who we should spend on, it's not even funny.

 

My idea is to trade for a younger, cost-controlled pitcher, but that may be a bigger pipedream than those suggesting we spend $80-100M, this winter (beyond the $10M we just gave to Kike.)

 

I see the best FAs out there as Nimmo and one of the 4-5 SSs (Turner, Correa, Bogey, Swanson and maybe Anderson.) Judge ain't happening. I'm not sure the lon term plans would allow for a top 6 or 2 top 12 prospects trade to fill another high need area- like pitching, so maybe all our hopes for 2023 are just a mirage. I hope not, but certainly a reset and a bigger spending winter for 2024 is a possibility. Even if that is the case, I think top brass knows enough to do something, this winter, to bring back some hopes and optimism to Sox Nation. I'm not sure a b unch of one year deals will calm the natives.

 

I see the Story deal as one that was not just about 2022 and 2023, but the hopes were he'd be part of the longer term plan, as well. Maybe we make two deals like that, this year: 4-5 years, so not super long and $22-$27M, so not super large. Enough to reset, but leaving (too) many positions to the kids and in-house solutions for many or most fans to be satisfied with.

[notin]

Ah the old blame DD. Of course Bloom hasn’t done much in his 3 yrs on the job to rectify the situation except trading Mookie. Now I guess the big plan is to let some of the expiring contracts just run out. Ingenious!

 

 

As the primary proponent of saying they should be better with this payroll, please tell me who were the biggest deadweights on that payroll? Who are some of the names who simply didn’t live up to their salary?

[moonslav59]

Ah the old blame DD. Of course Bloom hasn’t done much in his 3 yrs on the job to rectify the situation except trading Mookie. Now I guess the big plan is to let some of the expiring contracts just run out. Ingenious!

 

You mentioned the $200M player budget as something to pat Bloom on the back for, not me.

 

I'm with you on the bad idea to just let expiring contracts go for just a comp pick, but it seems like it's a lose-lose choice for the Sox GM.

 

With the tight wallet, he gets grief for trading our beloved stars or grief for not trading them.

 

Lets say we kept Betts, Bogey, Beni and then Devers. If that meant we could add basically nobody else to fill in the 10-15 other high need slots, we'd probably look like the Angels of the east.

 

Our farm was not at the point where we could expect enough infusions to even come close making us a winning team.

 

Henry would have had to come close to the Dodger payroll to get to glory. We can argue that he "can, if he wants to" all day long, but until we see it, we shouldn't expect it.

 

BTW, it wasn't just losing Betts. Take a look at the 2020 roster: it lacked quality AND quantity and not $40M spending budget could solve all the problems. Not even a GM who got 100% of his moves right could have fixed that, overnight. The fact that we got as far as we did in 2021 was just short of miraculous or "genius" or just plain luck. This past winter was much like 2021, until the late March Story signing, and our expectations were supposed to be a ring in '22? Really?

 

But hey, it's $200M and Bloom is a bum, because we finished last to team that spend hugely or who had a solid and deep farm system in place for several years- or both?

[moonslav59]

As the primary proponent of saying they should be better with this payroll, please tell me who were the biggest deadweights on that payroll? Who are some of the names who simply didn’t live up to their salary?

 

Ill make it easy...

 

Lux Tax Dollars

25.6 Sale

23.3 Story

22.0 JD

20.0 Bogey

17.0 Eovaldi

11.2 Devers (arb2 of 3)

10.0 Paxton

9.4 Barnes

7.0 Kike

7.0 Wacha

5.0 Hill

3.6 Dugo (arb 1 of 3)

3.0 Strahm

2.7 Pivetta (arb 1 of 3)

Less than 1.5:

Whitlock, Schreiber, Refsnyder, Arroyo, McGuire, Danish, Taylor, German, Kelly, Wong, Wink, Seabold, Ort and others

Houck, Casas, Bello, Dalbec, Duran, Crawford, Brasier, Bazardo and others

 

[Bellhorn04]

I remember when we signed Pablito & HRam; the talk was we should have signed Scherzer. The following winter, we broke our self-imposed rule of no long term deals to anyone over 30, when we signed Pric e to $210M/7. At that time, I felt like Price had the type of profile worth overpaying for and giving an extra year or two. Even he did not work out as hoped or planned.

 

There never really was any such rule about 30 year old pitchers. I think Henry made one comment about it, and we've been running with it for years. It's no wonder he doesn't like to say much.

[Bellhorn04]

Ill make it easy...

 

Lux Tax Dollars

25.6 Sale

23.3 Story

22.0 JD

20.0 Bogey

17.0 Eovaldi

11.2 Devers (arb2 of 3)

10.0 Paxton

9.4 Barnes

7.0 Kike

7.0 Wacha

5.0 Hill

3.6 Dugo (arb 1 of 3)

3.0 Strahm

2.7 Pivetta (arb 1 of 3)

Less than 1.5:

Whitlock, Schreiber, Refsnyder, Arroyo, McGuire, Danish, Taylor, German, Kelly, Wong, Wink, Seabold, Ort and others

Houck, Casas, Bello, Dalbec, Duran, Crawford, Brasier, Bazardo and others

 

 

It's been reported by multiple sources that Paxton's 2022 AAV is actually only $5.6 million.

[Old Red]

You mentioned the $200M player budget as something to pat Bloom on the back for, not me.

 

I'm with you on the bad idea to just let expiring contracts go for just a comp pick, but it seems like it's a lose-lose choice for the Sox GM.

 

With the tight wallet, he gets grief for trading our beloved stars or grief for not trading them.

 

Lets say we kept Betts, Bogey, Beni and then Devers. If that meant we could add basically nobody else to fill in the 10-15 other high need slots, we'd probably look like the Angels of the east.

 

Our farm was not at the point where we could expect enough infusions to even come close making us a winning team.

 

Henry would have had to come close to the Dodger payroll to get to glory. We can argue that he "can, if he wants to" all day long, but until we see it, we shouldn't expect it.

 

BTW, it wasn't just losing Betts. Take a look at the 2020 roster: it lacked quality AND quantity and not $40M spending budget could solve all the problems. Not even a GM who got 100% of his moves right could have fixed that, overnight. The fact that we got as far as we did in 2021 was just short of miraculous or "genius" or just plain luck. This past winter was much like 2021, until the late March Story signing, and our expectations were supposed to be a ring in '22? Really?

 

But hey, it's $200M and Bloom is a bum, because we finished last to team that spend hugely or who had a solid and deep farm system in place for several years- or both?

 

Over exaggerated again, because I never said Bloom was a Bum. I was talking more about patting on the back more for the losing record, and last place in the division finish that was costing $200+M. True that DD signed Sale, JD, and Evol, but Bloom has had 3 years to work on something, so that all these expiring contracts didn’t come due at once, and that includes Bogey, and yet they pretty much are just going to run out, and not getting much back to show for it.Not very creative, or ingenious to me.

[moonslav59]

It's been reported by multiple sources that Paxton's 2022 AAV is actually only $5.6 million.

Ok. I went with cots. I think the 2 tiered option is the point of contention. Paxton is guaranteed $4M, if he takes his option after the Sox refuse theirs, but he could say no and not get the $4M. Since it's not a "buyout," it's not really guaranteed.

 

Either way, 4 of the top 5 deals on the budget were DD signings or extensions. Only Bogey earned his money, but his dip in RBIs really hurt our chances, this year.

 

Cal it excuse-making. Call it reality, but to bring up the $200M player budget as something Bloom should be held totally responsible for is deceptive. Now, I'm sure Red will counter with

[Bellhorn04]

Ok. I went with cots. I think the 2 tiered option is the point of contention. Paxton is guaranteed $4M, if he takes his option after the Sox refuse theirs, but he could say no and not get the $4M. Since it's not a "buyout," it's not really guaranteed.

 

Either way, 4 of the top 5 deals on the budget were DD signings or extensions. Only Bogey earned his money, but his dip in RBIs really hurt our chances, this year.

 

Cal it excuse-making. Call it reality, but to bring up the $200M player budget as something Bloom should be held totally responsible for is deceptive. Now, I'm sure Red will counter with

 

In my Way Back Machine, I wish Bloom had:

 

Signed Gausman instead of Story.

Signed McHugh instead of Diekman.

Kept Renfroe.

Used the money saved by keeping Renfroe to sign another reliever.

[Old Red]

Ok. I went with cots. I think the 2 tiered option is the point of contention. Paxton is guaranteed $4M, if he takes his option after the Sox refuse theirs, but he could say no and not get the $4M. Since it's not a "buyout," it's not really guaranteed.

 

Either way, 4 of the top 5 deals on the budget were DD signings or extensions. Only Bogey earned his money, but his dip in RBIs really hurt our chances, this year.

 

Cal it excuse-making. Call it reality, but to bring up the $200M player budget as something Bloom should be held totally responsible for is deceptive. Now, I'm sure Red will counter with

 

You interpret what I said anyway you want you always have, and have been wrong more times than not. Once again NOBODY said Bloom should be held totally responsible for the $200M player budget that is your exaggeration again that may sell on here, but not the truth. What I have said repeatedly is that Bloom has had 3 years to work on things like all the expiring contracts, and has done pretty much nothing. If you want to pat Bloom on the back for a losing last place in the Div team then go for it, and go to your defense of gee if we would have been in any other Div we wouldn’t be in last place summary that I haven’t heard anywhere else.

[notin]

Over exaggerated again, because I never said Bloom was a Bum. I was talking more about patting on the back more for the losing record, and last place in the division finish that was costing $200+M. True that DD signed Sale, JD, and Evol, but Bloom has had 3 years to work on something, so that all these expiring contracts didn’t come due at once, and that includes Bogey, and yet they pretty much are just going to run out, and not getting much back to show for it.Not very creative, or ingenious to me.

 

1. They don’t all come due at once. Sale has two years left.

2. The end date of the other two was set by Dombrowski at the time of signing. The only thing Bloom could have done was trade Eovaldi after 2021, which in no way in Hell he should have. Eovaldi was the clear ace of the AL runner up.

 

There’s not much else that could have been done. You can’t possibly advocate that he should have traded Sale after seeing what it took to unload Price. (And Price has thrown over twice as many IP as Sale in the last 3 years despite voluntarily sitting out a season). And Martinez is in deep decline and not a player many if any teams would trade for without giving something equally useless back.

 

These are deals the Sox are stuck with and have no choice but to watch expire…

[Old Red]

In my Way Back Machine, I wish Bloom had:

 

Signed Gausman instead of Story.

Signed McHugh instead of Diekman.

Kept Renfroe.

Used the money saved by keeping Renfroe to sign another reliever.

 

And not signed Schwarber?

[Bellhorn04]

And not signed Schwarber?

 

Correct. $20 million is a lot for a DH. Signing him, along with the other moves, would have put us another $20 mill over the tax threshold, minus what someone would have paid for JD.

[moonslav59]

Over exaggerated again, because I never said Bloom was a Bum. I was talking more about patting on the back more for the losing record, and last place in the division finish that was costing $200+M. True that DD signed Sale, JD, and Evol, but Bloom has had 3 years to work on something, so that all these expiring contracts didn’t come due at once, and that includes Bogey, and yet they pretty much are just going to run out, and not getting much back to show for it.Not very creative, or ingenious to me.

 

Again, look at the 2020 roster- all 40 players plus the state of the farm after 2019.

 

Then, look at the net winter spending budgets (cuts before 2020, $40M in 2021 and about $60M before, this year). Bloom had to be creative and ingenious to fix that mess. He did well on some moves (Whitlock, Arroyo, Schreiber, Refsnyder, Pivetta, Wacha, Hill, Strahm and the 2021 Kike) and swung and missed on others (Richards, Perz I, Perez II, Paxton, Marwin, Andriese and most of all JBJ), but when you are forced to sign 1 year deal fro $3-7M, you'd need a lot of miracles to bring this team to glory in 3 short years.

 

Bloom had made several mistakes, as have GMs with bigger winter spending budgets. It's not like Bloom chooses $3-7M one-year contracts over larger and longer ones, and that's why I respond when people point out the $200M budget and oversimplify the reality of what that budget is all about. Just my opinion.

 

[moonslav59]

In my Way Back Machine, I wish Bloom had:

 

Signed Gausman instead of Story.

Signed McHugh instead of Diekman.

Kept Renfroe.

Used the money saved by keeping Renfroe to sign another reliever.

 

No doubt. We could have been better or much better had Bloom gotten 100% or even 85% of his moves right, but when you are forced to spend $4-8M/1 on most of your players acquired, it's hard to expect that. Hell, the success rate of signing known studs is hardly 50%..

[moonslav59]

You interpret what I said anyway you want you always have, and have been wrong more times than not. Once again NOBODY said Bloom should be held totally responsible for the $200M player budget that is your exaggeration again that may sell on here, but not the truth. What I have said repeatedly is that Bloom has had 3 years to work on things like all the expiring contracts, and has done pretty much nothing. If you want to pat Bloom on the back for a losing last place in the Div team then go for it, and go to your defense of gee if we would have been in any other Div we wouldn’t be in last place summary that I haven’t heard anywhere else.

 

The Sale, Nate, JD and Bogey deals were all 3 or more years long.

 

You keep saying I interpret your positions wrongly, but where did I say Bloom deserves aa pat on the b ack?

 

Pointing out that our record should be viewed in the context of playing in, by far, the toughest division is not a "defense." It's adding context. Things are not always black and white, and before you go on saying you never said they were, I know that.

 

When way more than half of the dead money is not on Bloom, I think that matters a lot. Only Story and Barnes are on Bloom, and both don't seem like total write-offs, either.

 

Bloom will lose a big chunk of the deadwood, as well as possibly non-deadwood in Bogey and maybe later, Devers. Let's give the guy a chance. Not pat him on the back, but a realistic chance to form "his team."

 

[moonslav59]

The Sale, Nate, JD and Bogey deals were all 3 or more years long.

 

You keep saying I interpret your positions wrongly, but where did I say Bloom deserves aa pat on the b ack?

 

Pointing out that our record should be viewed in the context of playing in, by far, the toughest division is not a "defense." It's adding context. Things are not always black and white, and before you go on saying you never said they were, I know that.

 

When way more than half of the dead money is not on Bloom, I think that matters a lot. Only Story and Barnes are on Bloom, and both don't seem like total write-offs, either.

 

Bloom will lose a big chunk of the deadwood, as well as possibly non-deadwood in Bogey and maybe later, Devers. Let's give the guy a chance. Not pat him on the back, but a realistic chance to form "his team."

 

 

I forgot to mention Price!

[dgalehouse]

The results speak for themselves. Our Red Sox are in the cellar , 23 games behind the Yankees. The Blue Jays are beating the Sox like a drum. It has been a very disappointing season , to put it kindly. Bloom is the man in charge of baseball operations. He has not done a good job . Cora is the manager. He has not done a good job either. How many of his moves are dictated by the front office ? We don't know. The off season is approaching. Both Bloom and Cora will be back next season. We can only hope they do their jobs differently and much better. We cannot have a repeat of this year.

[moonslav59]

The results speak for themselves. Our Red Sox are in the cellar , 23 games behind the Yankees. The Blue Jays are beating the Sox like a drum. It has been a very disappointing season , to put it kindly. Bloom is the man in charge of baseball operations. He has not done a good job . Cora is the manager. He has not done a good job either. How many of his moves are dictated by the front office ? We don't know. The off season is approaching. Both Bloom and Cora will be back next season. We can only hope they do their jobs differently and much better. We cannot have a repeat of this year.

 

I hope he can score hits like Wacha, Hill, Strahm, Schreiber, Refsnyder, McGuire and others, like last winter. Those results speak for themselves, too.

 

Sure, there is the JBJ deal everyone wants to focus, solely on and the W-L record, and yes, we cannot have a repeat of this year.

 

Would a repeat of 2021 be good enough for the bloom-bashers?

[Old Red]

I hope he can score hits like Wacha, Hill, Strahm, Schreiber, Refsnyder, McGuire and others, like last winter. Those results speak for themselves, too.

 

Sure, there is the JBJ deal everyone wants to focus, solely on and the W-L record, and yes, we cannot have a repeat of this year.

 

Would a repeat of 2021 be good enough for the bloom-bashers?

 

Ah those bad, bad Bloom-Bashers. I know your all exited about this new catching tandem, but they are just two backups to me. Just, because we have them under control for a number of years doesn’t mean they are that good. WL record is all that matters. You always try to make it the hits will offset the misses, but only works if that results in a winning team no matter what league, or division the Red Sox might play in. Works for some, but not for others.

Edited October 2, 2022 by Old Red

[moonslav59]

Ah those bad, bad Bloom-Bashers. I know your all exited about this new catching tandem, but they are just two backups to me. Just, because we have them under control for a number of years doesn’t mean they are that good. WL record is all that matters. You always try to make it the hits will offset the misses, but only works if that results in a winning team no matter what league, or division the Red Sox might play in. Works for some, but not for others.

 

I do think McGuire/Wong will be better than Vaz/Plawecki, but I certainly may be wrong. I do think it will be close enough to be a plus, due to the $7M saved on the Vaz/Plawecki cost differential. That $7M will allow us to try and upgrade another position by at least more than anything we might lose at catcher.

 

Also, remember that Vaz has not always been a .750 hitter.

.617 in 2014

.585 in 2016

.735 '17

.540 '18

.798 '19

.801 '20

.659 '21

.711 (overall in 2022)

 

Keeping Vaz would be no guarantee of .700+.

 

Bloom is forced to try and cobble together decency at a number of positions, with hopes for slight improvements, while he focuses resources towards improving our highest need areas.

 

Before the Vaz trade, our 2023 and beyond catcher situation was scary as hell. Now, it is less scary. To me, it is much less scary. That may be all we can hope for, when we have about 8-10 positions in need of improvement:

 

C

1B

RF

CF

DH

SP1

SP2

SP3

Closer

Set up

Set up

 

We can dream about signing Judge, Turner, Bell, Rodon, Syndergaard and Diaz and still spend enough to improve on our catcher and extend Devers, but it ain't happening.

 

Like it or not, some positions will have to be left to the likes of McGuire and Wong at catcher and Casas, Dalbec and Hosmer at 1B. Most likely, we will have to count on Sale and Bello to fill 2 SP'er slots, too. We will have to fill at least 1-2 key RP'er roles with players we already have- like Barnes and or Schreiber.

 

There just isn't enough budget room to fix every problem in significant ways. I think Bloom has succeeded in slightly improving some longer term outlooks without giving up top prospects of tying up a bunch of money.

 

I'm fine with opinions that disagree these were slight improvements, but IMO, they were and still are.

 

It's not really McGuire/Wong > Vaz/Plawecki. For 2023, it's McGuire/Wong > Wong/RHern.

 

It's Casas/Hosmer/Dalbec> Dalbec/Cordero

 

It's Dugo/Pham> Dugo/Duran

 

It's Bello> Wink/Craw

 

None of these might end up being earth-shattering upgrades, but it is what is needed when you have 10 slots to fill and a limited budget and priorities that hoard prospects.

 

 

[dgalehouse]

I hope he can score hits like Wacha, Hill, Strahm, Schreiber, Refsnyder, McGuire and others, like last winter. Those results speak for themselves, too.

 

Sure, there is the JBJ deal everyone wants to focus, solely on and the W-L record, and yes, we cannot have a repeat of this year.

 

Would a repeat of 2021 be good enough for the bloom-bashers?

 

The won - loss record is what matters the most. It 's not about " Bloom bashers " , it's about reality, honesty and success or failure.

[moonslav59]

The won - loss record is what matters the most. It 's not about " Bloom bashers " , it's about reality, honesty and success or failure.

 

A fair opinion, for sure.

 

Some see more context and nuances than others, when it comes to assigning blame.

 

Was Bloom responsible for 2020? If you say, no, then there is an acceptance of more than W-L as the final and only gauge of success or failure.

 

Of course 2021 and 2022 did not have all the context that 2020 had, but the world is not always so black or white to some of us.

 

.