Fire Bloom .

[notin]

Winning the off-season also doesn't typically lead to winning a WS title for the RS.

 

2011?

 

TOR has won the off-season title a few times recently and they haven't won a real ring since cars came with manual options.

 

“Winning the off-season” is how you facetiously describe a team that spent ton of cash on big name free agents and/or made high profile trades and still only got marginally better. “Well at least they won the off-season.”

 

Are the Globe pundits suggesting sarcasm as an off-season plan now?

Edited September 29, 2022 by notin

[notin]

2013 was a "monster" offseason for Cherington with the pickups that were made, but I don't think many people saw it that way initially. Under the radar players can make all the difference.

 

In order of signing date:

Stephen Drew

Brock Holt trade

Ryan Dempster

Koji Uehara

Shane Victorino

Jonny Gomes

Mike Napoli

Mike Carp trade

 

Those pieces don't jump out at you, but as part of a larger picture they help create a solid foundation of a team that just played their guts out.

 

 

At some point on there, I believe he also traded Josh Reddick for Andy Bailey. The move had very little impact, as Bailey got hurt a lot, but it was part of his very active off-season…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'd add Mata and Romero- maybe Walter.

 

What can we get for Paulino & Wikelman? Adding Lugo, Murphy or Ward won't up the return needle, too much, either.

 

A long shot might be for Bloom to identify the one top prospect he thinks has the least chance to shine brightly and package him with Wikelman and others to get something low-cost and with 3+ years of team control.

 

If we can fill one major slot via trade- most likely a solid SP'er or closer, I think the $60-65M can be used way more effectively to fill the other 3-4 slots remaining.

 

Prior to Bello's rise, Mata had been the org's top pitching prospect for what seems like three or four years. He may still need a stable spring training to solidify his status as a keeper. Romero is one of many Sox middle infielders who have value -- and so may be expendable.

 

Corner guys like Jordan and Kavadas could be prime trade candidates. Niko's award could make him more desirable to other teams (and the Sox awarding him could be strategic).

 

It's advisable to give Yorke at least another year of development before including him in a deal, since many believe he profiles as a big league bat. Those are rare in Beantown these days...

[notin]

I'd add Mata and Romero- maybe Walter.

 

What can we get for Paulino & Wikelman? Adding Lugo, Murphy or Ward won't up the return needle, too much, either.

 

A long shot might be for Bloom to identify the one top prospect he thinks has the least chance to shine brightly and package him with Wikelman and others to get something low-cost and with 3+ years of team control.

 

If we can fill one major slot via trade- most likely a solid SP'er or closer, I think the $60-65M can be used way more effectively to fill the other 3-4 slots remaining.

 

 

Why not Ceddane Rafaela?

 

He has a lot going on that other trans will like, and his defensive versatility and skills do give him a very high floor.

 

I keep seeing him forecast as a “utility player”, but he’s a top 100 talent that will interest any team. And he’s close to MLB and requires a 40 man roster spot in 3 months.

 

I like the prospect, but you will never acquire any decent pitching via trade if you refuse to make any of your good prospects available. Even taking out the top 5 is probably too many. How many players with careers longer than 3 years do you think there really are in the Sox system (or any system) right now?

Edited September 29, 2022 by notin

[mvp 78]

“Winning the off-season” is how you facetiously describe a team that spent ton of cash on big name free agents and/or made high profile trades and still only got marginally better. “Well at least they won the off-season.”

 

Are the Globe pundits suggesting sarcasm as an off-season plan now?

 

No, they lauded Theo after the AGon trade and CC signing. It didn't take long for the knives to come out though. Media never has to look inward you know...

[mvp 78]

Why not Ceddane Rafaela?

 

He has a lot going on that other trans will like, and his defensive versatility and skills do give him a very high floor.

 

I keep seeing him forecast as a “utility player”, but he’s a top 100 talent that will interest any team. And he’s close to MLB and requires a 40 man roster spot in 3 months.

 

I like the prospect, but you will never AC squires any decent pitching via trade if you refuse to make any of your good prospects available. Even taking out the top 5 is probably too many. How many players with careers longer than 3 years do you think there really are in the Sox system (or any system) right now?

 

Why not Mayer? I'm sure they could get a good pitcher for him.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Why not Mayer? I'm sure they could get a good pitcher for him.

 

This has to be in play, but the pitcher can't be a prospect, too. He has to already be good in the majors.

 

It could happen if they do decide to pay Bogey for another half dozen years.

[moonslav59]

Why not Ceddane Rafaela?

 

?

 

I did not add Rafaela, because he was already on the list.

[moonslav59]

Prior to Bello's rise, Mata had been the org's top pitching prospect for what seems like three or four years. He may still need a stable spring training to solidify his status as a keeper. .

 

Agreed, but he looked very impressive, this year, despite allowing 46 BBs in 83 IP.

 

7-3 2.49

.593 OPS Against

105Ks in 83 IP (11.4 per 9 IP)

 

He will not be on the opening day roster, but there is a good chance he gets a call in 2023.

[moonslav59]

Why not Ceddane Rafaela?

 

He has a lot going on that other trans will like, and his defensive versatility and skills do give him a very high floor.

 

I keep seeing him forecast as a “utility player”, but he’s a top 100 talent that will interest any team. And he’s close to MLB and requires a 40 man roster spot in 3 months.

 

I like the prospect, but you will never AC squires any decent pitching via trade if you refuse to make any of your good prospects available. Even taking out the top 5 is probably too many. How many players with careers longer than 3 years do you think there really are in the Sox system (or any system) right now?

 

I think more than most think there is. Besides Casas, Mayer, Bello, Rafaela and Bleis?

 

Maybe Yorke, Ward, EValdez, Abreu, Perales, Wikelman, Lugo, Kavadas and Hickey.

 

I do think Wong, Mata, Walter and German give 3+ years.

[notin]

Why not Mayer? I'm sure they could get a good pitcher for him.

 

Are you saying he shouldn’t be available in the right deal? Maybe Romero will be the better long term solution at shortstop anyway…

[notin]

I think more than most think there is. Besides Casas, Mayer, Bello, Rafaela and Bleis?

 

Maybe Yorke, Ward, EValdez, Abreu, Perales, Wikelman, Lugo, Kavadas and Hickey.

 

I do think Wong, Mata, Walter and German give 3+ years.

 

 

If you have 5 untouchables, forget about getting anyone who is good and controllable. At this point, you’re looking for salary dumps…

[notin]

I think more than most think there is. Besides Casas, Mayer, Bello, Rafaela and Bleis?

 

Maybe Yorke, Ward, EValdez, Abreu, Perales, Wikelman, Lugo, Kavadas and Hickey.

 

I do think Wong, Mata, Walter and German give 3+ years.

 

And how many from this list would you have said the same thing about in 2012?

 

https://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/12/13/2633672/boston-red-sox-top-20-prospects-for-2012

[moonslav59]

If you have 5 untouchables, forget about getting anyone who is good and controllable. At this point, you’re looking for salary dumps…

 

I did not say anyone was untouchable. Remember I caught flack for suggesting Casas be traded.

 

I think Rafaela & Wikelman could net us a solid SP'er, but maybe a decent third player would have to be added.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

And how many from this list would you have said the same thing about in 2012?

 

https://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/12/13/2633672/boston-red-sox-top-20-prospects-for-2012

 

Eee-gaads. According to their grades, Bogey was #1 as an A- and no one else was even a B+ except Barnes, with "the stuff of a rotation anchor"... which many would say was prescient in a literal sense (heavy metal object dragging rotation to the bottom of the sea).

 

The evals were pretty honest, though. No one was rated as a five-tool player like we've read, seen or heard about Mayer, Rafaela and Bleis...

[moonslav59]

And how many from this list would you have said the same thing about in 2012?

 

https://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/12/13/2633672/boston-red-sox-top-20-prospects-for-2012

 

How many gave 3+ years after the top 5?

 

JBJ

Alex Wilson

Iggy

Vaz

Doubront

Tazawa

Noe Ramirez

 

[notin]

Eee-gaads. According to their grades, Bogey was #1 as an A- and no one else was even a B+ except Barnes, with "the stuff of a rotation anchor"... which many would say was prescient in a literal sense (heavy metal object dragging rotation to the bottom of the sea).

 

The evals were pretty honest, though. No one was rated as a five-tool player like we've read, seen or heard about Mayer, Rafaela and Bleis...

 

We had a couple top 100 guys who wound up doing nothing, or less. Cecchini, for example, was ranked 1 place ahead (or behind?) of Betts in the only appearance for both on BAs list…

[notin]

How many gave 3+ years after the top 5?

 

JBJ

Alex Wilson

Iggy

Vaz

Doubront

Tazawa

Noe Ramirez

 

 

Fair, but also worth noting that many of them were rather fungible.

 

And still the entire farm only produced 7 players. That’s not a lot…

[moonslav59]

Fair, but also worth noting that many of them were rather fungible.

 

And still the entire farm only produced 7 players. That’s not a lot…

 

Vaz, JBJ, Iggy and Alex Wilson gave quite a bit. Tazawa gave 3 good years and not much afterwards.

 

Noe had a 5 year stretch of slightly better than "fungible."

[moonslav59]

Fair, but also worth noting that many of them were rather fungible.

 

And still the entire farm only produced 7 players. That’s not a lot…

 

The thing is, picking who those 5-6 might be was hard.

[Bobe2]

Are my eyes deceiving me or are you farm boys actually talking about trading away the farm for pitching, in the middle of Blooms re-build?

[Bobe2]

They’re not trading Devers. And they’re not never signing a big contract again. They’re top 5 spenders every year.

 

It’s business my friend, I hope I’m wrong

[Bobe2]

The redsox announced last night that they are in negotiations with Bogaerts

[moonslav59]

Are my eyes deceiving me or are you farm boys actually talking about trading away the farm for pitching, in the middle of Blooms re-build?

 

I don't think any poster is always against trading farm pieces. Kimmi is probably the most reluctant.

 

I've always been fine with a trade, here and there, when needed most, but I'm not for trading top prospects for 1 or 2 years of team control- maybe 2 years of an ace- only.

 

We also realize Bloom might need his arm twisted to do it.

[Bellhorn04]

Are my eyes deceiving me or are you farm boys actually talking about trading away the farm for pitching, in the middle of Blooms re-build?

 

I think an inherent part of the re-building philosophy is stocking farm pieces that can be traded.

 

I don't think anyone is expecting Bloom to go all Dombrowski and trade them in bunches, though.

[Bellhorn04]

The redsox announced last night that they are in negotiations with Bogaerts

 

Rob Bradford said otherwise two days ago.

 

 

Where did you hear this? Can't find anything.

[Bobe2]

I don't think any poster is always against trading farm pieces. Kimmi is probably the most reluctant.

 

I've always been fine with a trade, here and there, when needed most, but I'm not for trading top prospects for 1 or 2 years of team control- maybe 2 years of an ace- only.

 

We also realize Bloom might need his arm twisted to do it.

 

I know, sometimes it gets kinda hypocritical though DD did the same thing and he gets blasted for for winning a World Series, the Sox for some reason don’t have many pitchers make it, every GM with Sox have traded pieces for pitching

[Bobe2]

Rob Bradford said otherwise two days ago.

 

 

Where did you hear this? Can't find anything.

Sam Kennedy said they were in an interview with nesn

[Bellhorn04]

Sam Kennedy said they were in an interview with nesn

 

Hope Sam is being straight with us.

[Bobe2]

Hope Sam is being straight with us.

 

He said after the game that they have been in negotiations for a while, they asked about money and details, he said that’s not his thing