Fire Bloom .

[MADSTORK]

Drafting "unsignable players," late in the early rounds was also a huge advantage to big spending teams.

 

The situation is much different, now. It is much harder to build a strong farm, especially if you are winning and/or spending over the line.

 

That's not to say it is impossible, but only a handful of teams have done it on a consistent basis, since the rule changes.

 

Lmfao!

The excuses you have for this Group are second to none

[moonslav59]

How often in the last 20 years has the best record win the WSC?

 

SIX, which is more than double the amount a crapshoot would predict.

 

Lost WS in 2003 (NYY)

Lost WS 2004 (STL) 3rd best team (BOS) won

Lost NLCS 2005 (STL) 2nd best team (CWS) won

Lost in NLDS (NYM tied w NYY) and ALDS (NYY) 2006

Won WS (BOS tied w CLE for best record) 2007

Lost in ALDS (LAA) 2nd best lost in WS (TBR) 2008

Won WS (NYY) 2009

Lost in NLCS (PHI) 2010

Lost in NLDS (PHI) 2011

Lost in NLDS (WSH) 2012

Won WS (BOS) 2013 (STL tied & lost WS)

Lost ALDS (LAA) 2014

Lost NLDS (STL) 2015

Won WS (CHC) 2016

Lost WS (LAD) 2017 to 3rd best team (HOU 101 wins)

Won WS (BOS) 2018

Lost WS (HOU) 2019

Won WS (LAD) vs 2nd bestam (TBR) short season 2020

Lost NLCS (LAD) 2021

Lost NLDS (LAD) 2nd best team (HOU) won 2022

 

For a 5 year stretch the best team won 3 times and lost in the WS the 2 other times. That blows away any idea that the playoffs are random (or a true crapshoot.)

 

To me, it's farther away from being a crapshoot than it is being one. Just my opinion.

 

[moonslav59]

Yeah I wasn't a fan when they added more of these wild cards. They should have stopped at just the 1 wild card. That way it's 4 on each side. Longer series. They play 162 games to get there so to have your season be decided by a best of 3 games on the first round is crazy.

 

It doesn't really bother me. It's more fun watching playoff games than regular season games, and it makes a ton of money, which helps pay for the drop in MLB attendance over the years.

[moonslav59]

Fangraphs has these team farm rankings:

 

Red= Playoff Bound

 

1. BAL

2. CIN

3. LAD

4. BOS

5. NYM

6. TBR

7. PIT

8. AZ

9. CLE

10. MN

 

(These teams had good farms a few years ago, but many prospects graduated and are leading their team to wins, now:

13. NYY, 17. HOU, 21. TOR, 28. ATL)

 

It is very hard to win and maintain a top 10 farm, every season.

 

ATL, HOU, TBR and LAD have probably come the closest. I'm sure someone can add other teams or show I am wrong about one of those 4, I listed.

 

2021 top farms

1. BAL

3. TBR

8. NYY

9. BOS

13. LAD

22. ATL

25. HOU

 

2019:

1. TBR

3. LAD

6. ATL

10. BAL

24. HOU

30. BOS

 

 

[notin]

Yeah I wasn't a fan when they added more of these wild cards. They should have stopped at just the 1 wild card. That way it's 4 on each side. Longer series. They play 162 games to get there so to have your season be decided by a best of 3 games on the first round is crazy.

 

Plus they are all but ensuring the World Series goes into November…

[Randy Red Sox]

How many times has John Henry said the goal " was to compete for the WS EVERY year" yet how many last place AL East finishes have we had since he stated this?

Let the season play out, but as of now, I can’t disagree.

 

I’ll make one point: if the JH plan was to just compete for a playoff slot, this year, regardless of what we wanted or expected, Bloom has missed the mark by 2-4 wins. Wait a week and we might be 1-2 GB a WC slot.

 

(Not a prediction.)

[Dipre]

Henry didn't construct this half assed roster, Bloom did

[iortiz]

Henry didn't construct this half assed roster, Bloom did

 

He thought this was going to be TB with steroids by bringing Bloom. I thought it could work too. I have to admit, I was death wrong. Henry has to admit it too and move on. The guy he was looking for is in LA, unfortunately.

[moonslav59]

He thought this was going to be TB with steroids by bringing Bloom. I thought it could work too. I have to admit, I was death wrong. Henry has to admit it too and move on. The guy he was looking for is in LA, unfortunately.

 

The guy who went to HOU did okay, too, and he is available, now.

[Bellhorn04]

The guy who went to HOU did okay, too, and he is available, now.

 

Nope. James Click was hired by the Jays as "VP of Baseball Strategy".

[Hugh2]

Given how parity has come to baseball it should be blatantly obvious now that if this team wants to succeed they need to start really developing and investing in good scouting and development personal.

 

Some armchair GMs might not like this, but you can't spend your way out of this. No matter how much you complain you can not speak that into existence. Just look at the state of the game, MLB has succeeded at bringing parity to the sport. The best way to flex your financial might may just be to spend more on scouting, coaches, trainers etc.

 

Unfortunately, the best way to evaluate how well you're doing is in hindsight so it's hard to judge the current state of affairs but it seems reasonable to say they've done a decent job at improving at player development but their MLB scouting department sucks. They really can't afford to swing and miss on guys like Story, and even a lot of their smaller moves either don't work out or the guy gets hurt. Even guys like Duval who seem like good signings haven't contributed much because they've been hurt. Yes, Adam is back now but Joely is still out, will we ever see Mills or Mondesi on this team?

 

Even the best moves aren't going to work out, but it really feels at the MLB level the Sox have been "swinging and missing" a lot more than they should be, and that needs to end. If the farm really is improving and a good core is coming up, you still need to make big league moves to supplement that roster.

 

This may be an unpopular opinion but the Sox philosophy and strategy is a sound one......it's their execution of it that sucks.

[Old Red]

Given how parity has come to baseball it should be blatantly obvious now that if this team wants to succeed they need to start really developing and investing in good scouting and development personal.

 

Some armchair GMs might not like this, but you can't spend your way out of this. No matter how much you complain you can not speak that into existence. Just look at the state of the game, MLB has succeeded at bringing parity to the sport. The best way to flex your financial might may just be to spend more on scouting, coaches, trainers etc.

 

Unfortunately, the best way to evaluate how well you're doing is in hindsight so it's hard to judge the current state of affairs but it seems reasonable to say they've done a decent job at improving at player development but their MLB scouting department sucks. They really can't afford to swing and miss on guys like Story, and even a lot of their smaller moves either don't work out or the guy gets hurt. Even guys like Duval who seem like good signings haven't contributed much because they've been hurt. Yes, Adam is back now but Joely is still out, will we ever see Mills or Mondesi on this team?

 

Even the best moves aren't going to work out, but it really feels at the MLB level the Sox have been "swinging and missing" a lot more than they should be, and that needs to end. If the farm really is improving and a good core is coming up, you still need to make big league moves to supplement that roster.

 

This may be an unpopular opinion but the Sox philosophy and strategy is a sound one......it's their execution of it that sucks.

 

The Red Sox have 33 people in the analytics department. I repeat 33 people. What more do you want?

[Hugh2]

The Red Sox have 33 people in the analytics department. I repeat 33 people. What more do you want?

 

A.) is 33 average?

 

B.) What does A even matter if all 33 of those people suck.

 

C.) analytics isn't scouting, training, and player development.

[Hugh2]

I'm sorry Red, let me answer your question properly.

 

I want the Red Sox to be the best at scouting players on all levels, from the international markets to the amateur markets (high school and college) to the minor league and MLB level. I want them to invest in analytics, but I also want them to have scouts with the "best eyes" and I want the best trainers, strength and conditioning coaches, nutritionists, pitching coaches, and hitting coaches, from the DSL to FSL to A ball all the way up to Boston.

 

There's zero reason why you can't be better at bringing in a better supporting cast with recruiting and $$$$

[mvp 78]

I'm sorry Red, let me answer your question properly.

 

I want the Red Sox to be the best at scouting players on all levels, from the international markets to the amateur markets (high school and college) to the minor league and MLB level. I want them to invest in analytics, but I also want them to have scouts with the "best eyes" and I want the best trainers, strength and conditioning coaches, nutritionists, pitching coaches, and hitting coaches, from the DSL to FSL to A ball all the way up to Boston.

 

There's zero reason why you can't be better at bringing in a better supporting cast with recruiting and $$$$

 

There's a cap to what they can pay players, but not to what they can spend on coaching staff, facilities, scouts, etc...

[Bellhorn04]

This may be an unpopular opinion but the Sox philosophy and strategy is a sound one......it's their execution of it that sucks.

 

Only the first part of that opinion would be unpopular.

[Bellhorn04]

There's a cap to what they can pay players, but not to what they can spend on coaching staff, facilities, scouts, etc...

 

You brought up something during the offseason about Bloom being the diametric opposite of DD in that he consults with and weighs the opinions of others to the max...and maybe to a fault.

[Hugh2]

There's a cap to what they can pay players, but not to what they can spend on coaching staff, facilities, scouts, etc...

 

exactly, and how much does a good hitting/pitching coach in A ball cost? or a strength and conditioning coach? not $300 million dollars. Good investment into personal pays for itself.

[Dipre]

This may be an unpopular opinion but the Sox philosophy and strategy is a sound one......it's their execution of it that sucks.

 

....at the major league level.

[Hugh2]

....at the major league level.

 

agreed. Blooms regime is truly a mix bag. He's done a good job of rebuilding the system and building depth and that bodes well for the future, but their moves at the MLB level are real head-scratchers.

 

If at some point the Sox have a solid core with guys like Bello, Mayer, Casas, Rafaela, Whitlock, Houck+++ they are still going to need to supplement that team with big league talent.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

[quote=

 

This may be an unpopular opinion but the Sox philosophy and strategy is a sound one......it's their execution of it that sucks.

 

The way they've punished fans this year has been rather cruel and unusual.

[moonslav59]

Given how parity has come to baseball it should be blatantly obvious now that if this team wants to succeed they need to start really developing and investing in good scouting and development personal.

 

Some armchair GMs might not like this, but you can't spend your way out of this. No matter how much you complain you can not speak that into existence. Just look at the state of the game, MLB has succeeded at bringing parity to the sport. The best way to flex your financial might may just be to spend more on scouting, coaches, trainers etc.

 

Unfortunately, the best way to evaluate how well you're doing is in hindsight so it's hard to judge the current state of affairs but it seems reasonable to say they've done a decent job at improving at player development but their MLB scouting department sucks. They really can't afford to swing and miss on guys like Story, and even a lot of their smaller moves either don't work out or the guy gets hurt. Even guys like Duval who seem like good signings haven't contributed much because they've been hurt. Yes, Adam is back now but Joely is still out, will we ever see Mills or Mondesi on this team?

 

Even the best moves aren't going to work out, but it really feels at the MLB level the Sox have been "swinging and missing" a lot more than they should be, and that needs to end. If the farm really is improving and a good core is coming up, you still need to make big league moves to supplement that roster.

 

This may be an unpopular opinion but the Sox philosophy and strategy is a sound one......it's their execution of it that sucks.

 

It's hard to grade the last 4 years of farm building, because Bloom took mostly HS players earlier in the draft.

 

I did expect to see more changes in the areas you mentioned, especially on finding and developing pitchers.

[moonslav59]

exactly, and how much does a good hitting/pitching coach in A ball cost? or a strength and conditioning coach? not $300 million dollars. Good investment into personal pays for itself.

 

You also need to know who the best people are. Do we?

 

You need to get them to come to the Sox- probably paying more would do that in most cases.

 

I'd like to know how much we have tried to improve in these areas, and some expert say we got good, meh or worse new guys.

 

Maybe we have done some good or very good things on the farm, but players are so far away from the bigs, we can't see it.

 

Maybe not.

[Old Red]

It's hard to grade the last 4 years of farm building, because Bloom took mostly HS players earlier in the draft.

 

I did expect to see more changes in the areas you mentioned, especially on finding and developing pitchers.

 

It’s not hard to grade Bloom on the last 4 years of the big club though,which is the most important.

[Old Red]

agreed. Blooms regime is truly a mix bag. He's done a good job of rebuilding the system and building depth and that bodes well for the future, but their moves at the MLB level are real head-scratchers.

 

If at some point the Sox have a solid core with guys like Bello, Mayer, Casas, Rafaela, Whitlock, Houck+++ they are still going to need to supplement that team with big league talent.

 

So many are counting on the likes of Mayer, Rafaela, Casas etc who are nothing, but suspects at this point with the BIGGEST suspect at the moment being Casas. Most likely not all will work out.

[moonslav59]

agreed. Blooms regime is truly a mix bag. He's done a good job of rebuilding the system and building depth and that bodes well for the future, but their moves at the MLB level are real head-scratchers.

 

If at some point the Sox have a solid core with guys like Bello, Mayer, Casas, Rafaela, Whitlock, Houck+++ they are still going to need to supplement that team with big league talent.

 

Not all his major league moves have been head scratchers, but he's made 2-3 doozies. When you spend $1-10M on mostly 1 year deals, you get what you pay for, and I still am not so sure Bloom has done worse than most GM would have done with the contract sizes he was afforded.

 

To me, the bigger FA moves before 2022 (Wacha, Hill, Strahm) looked better than before 2021 (Richards, Perez II, Marwin,) but the W-L record did not reflect that. Of course, other moves were made (Renfroe for JBJ, the Barnes extension, and Diekman,) but there does not seem to be a clear correlation.

 

Ultimately, it ends up being the results on the field, and Bloom has clearly missed with his SP'er additions, even if most were bargain basement stabs in the dark. He chose to spend more in other areas, but even on this area, our SP'ing has been doing more than fine, lately, and we are doing worse.

 

Baseball is hard to figure out.

[Dipre]

So many are counting on the likes of Mayer, Rafaela, Casas etc who are nothing, but suspects at this point with the BIGGEST suspect at the moment being Casas. Most likely not all will work out.

 

Sooooo should they not be given a chance then?

[mvp 78]

You brought up something during the offseason about Bloom being the diametric opposite of DD in that he consults with and weighs the opinions of others to the max...and maybe to a fault.

 

During the offseason it made him slow to make a move. Now, maybe it's making him slow to change staff?

[mvp 78]

....at the major league level.

 

They have also struggled to get pitchers to excel once they get to AAA.

[moonslav59]

Sooooo should they not be given a chance then?

 

We should have given up on "suspect" Pedroia after his poor start.

 

Bogey hit .662 over his first 650 PAs.

 

JBJ, don't even ask!