Fire Bloom .

[Hugh2]

The way I envisioned a small market GM in a big Boston market was the blend the strategy. Use the financial muscle to get some top tier talent on your team but to imply the organizational building philosophy used in Tampa to round out the roster.

 

If that’s the goal, this is the off-season to do that. Blooms pass ends with the 2023 season.

[cp176]

I'm not particularly anti-Bloom. This next year will be big for him for sure. My question I guess would be is he actually capable of building a program that is competitive year in and year out as well as sustainable over the long haul? I'm not sure that the answer to that is yes at this point. I don't need to hear how great a job he did in Tampa either. He is in Boston now. He has a wonderful opportunity and I hope that he succeeds . Nothing to date makes me think that he is anything special at all.

[Maxbialystock]

I'm not particularly anti-Bloom. This next year will be big for him for sure. My question I guess would be is he actually capable of building a program that is competitive year in and year out as well as sustainable over the long haul? I'm not sure that the answer to that is yes at this point. I don't need to hear how great a job he did in Tampa either. He is in Boston now. He has a wonderful opportunity and I hope that he succeeds . Nothing to date makes me think that he is anything special at all.

 

Nothing unfair in what you opine. Boston ain't Tampa, and Bloom must adjust. What we don't know is what guidance JH has given him. For example, I just read that the Mets owner has said he's reluctant to go over $300M for salaries.

 

What John Henry will underwrite is especially important now because Bogey and especially Devers want big contracts at the same time the pitching needs rebuilding after a season with the 2d worst team ERA in the AL.

 

At the same time building a good farm system is also important.

[moonslav59]

I'm not particularly anti-Bloom. This next year will be big for him for sure. My question I guess would be is he actually capable of building a program that is competitive year in and year out as well as sustainable over the long haul? I'm not sure that the answer to that is yes at this point. I don't need to hear how great a job he did in Tampa either. He is in Boston now. He has a wonderful opportunity and I hope that he succeeds . Nothing to date makes me think that he is anything special at all.

 

The thing is, it takes 3-5 years to really build up the farm, and depending on how many HS players you draft highly, it might take 2-4 or 5 more years to start seeing the results. By then, Bloom may be long gone, and the next GM reaps the rewards of his work.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

How does a big market team contend for World Series rings over a sustained period of years? Ideally, it combines developing prospects into big leaguers and acquiring additional talent via free agency and trades.

 

It's almost impossible to just buy up all the top big name free agents every winter. And as history has shown, at least half those guys never turn out to be worth the money anyway.

 

It's also bad business not to pay market price to retain homegrown stars as they approach free agency. Replacing All-Stars in the line-up is hard enough, but some favorites are just irreplaceable with the fanbase.

 

The industry trend these days is to lock up young stars through their primes with longterm contracts that make them rich for life, but won't totally obliterate a club's yearly budget in the process. Unfortunately for Chaim Bloom, most of his top prospects haven't even made the majors yet. We don't even know if they'll be MLB stars.

 

In the meantime, he really has no choice but to trade some and also spend big on established players to put a competitive and entertaining product on the field. The fun really starts in about a month...

[Bellhorn04]

How does a big market team contend for World Series rings over a sustained period of years? Ideally, it combines developing prospects into big leaguers and acquiring additional talent via free agency and trades.

 

It's almost impossible to just buy up all the top big name free agents every winter. And as history has shown, at least half those guys never turn out to be worth the money anyway.

 

It's also bad business not to pay market price to retain homegrown stars as they approach free agency. Replacing All-Stars in the line-up is hard enough, but some favorites are just irreplaceable with the fanbase.

 

The industry trend these days is to lock up young stars through their primes with longterm contracts that make them rich for life, but won't totally obliterate a club's yearly budget in the process. Unfortunately for Chaim Bloom, most of his top prospects haven't even made the majors yet. We don't even know if they'll be MLB stars.

 

In the meantime, he really has no choice but to trade some and also spend big on established players to put a competitive and entertaining product on the field. The fun really starts in about a month...

 

Good post.

[moonslav59]

How does a big market team contend for World Series rings over a sustained period of years? Ideally, it combines developing prospects into big leaguers and acquiring additional talent via free agency and trades.

 

It's almost impossible to just buy up all the top big name free agents every winter. And as history has shown, at least half those guys never turn out to be worth the money anyway.

 

It's also bad business not to pay market price to retain homegrown stars as they approach free agency. Replacing All-Stars in the line-up is hard enough, but some favorites are just irreplaceable with the fanbase.

 

The industry trend these days is to lock up young stars through their primes with longterm contracts that make them rich for life, but won't totally obliterate a club's yearly budget in the process. Unfortunately for Chaim Bloom, most of his top prospects haven't even made the majors yet. We don't even know if they'll be MLB stars.

 

In the meantime, he really has no choice but to trade some and also spend big on established players to put a competitive and entertaining product on the field. The fun really starts in about a month...

 

Very true.

 

But you can't spend too big for too long, or you start getting penalized on drafting and IFA bonus money.

 

It's not as easy as it used to be.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Very true.

 

But you can't spend too big for too long, or you start getting penalized on drafting and IFA bonus money.

 

It's not as easy as it used to be.

 

Unless you're the Dodgers, who in the past year: inked Bauer when he was Cy Young, right before he became a banned deviant; traded top prospects for Scherzer, who then signed with the Mets; lost their best pitcher and WAR leader from '21, Buehler, to injury for the season... and yet, they're still 50 games over .500!

[moonslav59]

Unless you're the Dodgers, who in the past year: inked Bauer when he was Cy Young, right before he became a banned deviant; traded top prospects for Scherzer, who then signed with the Mets; lost their best pitcher and WAR leader from '21, Buehler, to injury for the season... and yet, they're still 50 games over .500!

 

When JH shows he's willing to spend like that, I'll change my tune.

[Hugh2]

When JH shows he's willing to spend like that, I'll change my tune.

 

It gets expensive staying over, but do you lose draft picks staying over just the first threshold?

 

Given where they pick and What they get, the Dodgers are phenomenal at drafting. Gotta pump money into scouting too. It’s a crap shoot, but that still matters

[moonslav59]

It gets expensive staying over, but do you lose draft picks staying over just the first threshold?

 

Given where they pick and What they get, the Dodgers are phenomenal at drafting. Gotta pump money into scouting too. It’s a crap shoot, but that still matters

 

I think we can get back to high competitiveness spending $60-80M, this winter, although $80-100M would better the odds, greatly.

 

It all does depend on how well we build up the farm, and yes, how good our scouts are.

 

The Dodgers and Braves don't draft highly very often, so they do know their s***.

[Hugh2]

I think we can get back to high competitiveness spending $60-80M, this winter, although $80-100M would better the odds, greatly.

 

It all does depend on how well we build up the farm, and yes, how good our scouts are.

 

The Dodgers and Braves don't draft highly very often, so they do know their s***.

 

I think if you go over, you go up against the next threshold. I don’t think the Sox want to go over that number. So hypothetically they may have that $110 million of Bogey opts out.

 

Devers already accounts for 11 million of that so even if you lock those two up you’re still looking at somewhere north of 60 million they have to spend (if they want too).

 

I think they need to trade for some cost controlled pitching. I expect big things this winter. I’m sure I’m going to be let down, but they’re probably going to spend big enough to surprise someone around here

[iortiz]

Spending hasn't been an issue for JH since he has been there, the thing is spending when it make sense. Next year will make sense if they think they can win it all in the next 3 years.

[Nick]

Big issue for Bloom is how many of these young guys will develop into above average major league ball player.

 

We've see some hope but not sure where they'll rank ultimately. DFA'd or traded or become a starter.

 

Bello

Winckowski

Cutter

Dalbec

Duran

 

Just to name a few. I suppose you can put both Houck and Whitlock in the winning column for now. Recent struggles for Nick Pivetta has put him on not sure category for me.

 

No doubt, we got Nick on the cheap. He's had outstanding games. But ultimately, is he a keeper? I'm still on the fence on Verdugo. He's cheap for sure, but is he improving as much as we'd like?

 

Question for me is can I envision a player on a world series championship team? Whitlock is yes for sure, others? Most are TBD.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Nick

[Hugh2]

Big issue for Bloom is how many of these young guys will develop into above average major league ball player.

 

We've see some hope but not sure where they'll rank ultimately. DFA'd or traded or become a starter.

 

Bello

Winckowski

Cutter

Dalbec

Duran

 

Just to name a few. I suppose you can put both Houck and Whitlock in the winning column for now. Recent struggles for Nick Pivetta has put him on not sure category for me.

 

No doubt, we got Nick on the cheap. He's had outstanding games. But ultimately, is he a keeper? I'm still on the fence on Verdugo. He's cheap for sure, but is he improving as much as we'd like?

 

Question for me is can I envision a player on a world series championship team? Whitlock is yes for sure, others? Most are TBD.

 

I think both Dalbec and Duran have stock going down, but I don’t think wink, or cutter ever had as of expectations. Maybe Cutter develops into a great bullpen arm. Bello there’s still hope for. Guys at the top of the system have more promise than they have over the last several years roo

[moonslav59]

Although some of our younger players have struggled or seen their "stock decline," all hope is lost on a few of even the worst 2022-looking players we have going into 2023.

 

It's easy to look at the following list and say, "That's a lot of mediocrity," and I wouldn't disagree, but some still have upside, and the sheer number we have makes me think a few will likely shine at some point, hopefully soon. One major problem is knowing which ones will shine, and harder yet, planning on which slots to roll the dice on.

 

Here's a look at the positions we have the greatest need. (I see SP, 2B/SS and CF as the three we have to fill and not leave to chance or unfounded hopes.)

(Farm)

C: McGuire, Wong, RHern (Cottam/Hickey)

1B: Casas, Hosmer, Dalbec, Arroyo-Cordero (Jordan)

2B: (Story at SS) Arroyo, EValdez (Rafaela/Downs/Koss/Hamilton/Yorke/Paulino)

SS: (Story at 2B) Downs, Arroyo (Lugo/Mayer/Bonaci/Romero)

CF: ______ Verdugo, Duran (Rafaela/Ja Davis/Bleis)

RF: Verdugo, Refsnyder (W Abreu/Anthony)

DH: Cordero-Dalbec, Arroyo, EValdez (Kavadas)

 

(Assuming we bring back Wacha or add a SP1 or SP2, at least)

SP4/5:Whitlock (RP?)-Houck (RP), Bello, Mata, Crawford, Winckowski, Seabold

(Walter, TWard, Murphy, VSantos/Drohan/Wikelman/Uberstine)

 

(After Whitlock, Houck, Schreiber)

RP: Taylor, Barnes, Brasier, Danish, German, Kelly (converted SP)

(Ed Bazardo/DHern/Sawamura/Ort/Politi/Feltman/Thompson/Fernandez/Wallace)

 

[oldtimer]

I think we can get back to high competitiveness spending $60-80M, this winter, although $80-100M would better the odds, greatly.

 

It all does depend on how well we build up the farm, and yes, how good our scouts are.

 

The Dodgers and Braves don't draft highly very often, so they do know their s***.

 

It's a combination of how much you spend and how wisely you spend it. The Sox have a large expenditure this year but are also carrying dead money contracts and woefully underperforming contracts. The extension of Sale was questionable at the time and getting Price of the books will help. W e had a badly underperforming contract with Barnes and the Paxton contract was aa total loss this year. The JBJ/Renfroe trace was the ultimate head scratcher. Not all of this was on Bloom but it is a reflection on the Sox front office. Let's avoid the errors of the past. spend wisely and react more quickly when problems surface, such as relief pitching, the outfield and first base.

[moonslav59]

I think both Dalbec and Duran have stock going down, but I don’t think wink, or cutter ever had as of expectations. Maybe Cutter develops into a great bullpen arm. Bello there’s still hope for. Guys at the top of the system have more promise than they have over the last several years roo

 

What would you say the odds are that one of these guys become a capable RP'er:

Crawford

Winckowski

Seabold

Murphy

Any chance two make it?

 

How about this group?

Bello

Mata

TWard

Walter

Gonzalez

How about two? (Maybe farther down the line than 2023)

 

How about?

Taylor

Barnes

German

 

Now, put all 3 groups together, and is it unreasonable to think 2-3 should contribute in 2023 and maybe another 1-3 by 2024?

 

Everyday players:

Is there no hope that just one from Hosmer, Dalbec or Cordero look good in 2023?

Arroyo, EValdez or even Rafaela at 2B or DH (add 1B candidates to the DH list)

McGuire or Wong as the starting or back-up catcher?

Refsnyder, Duran or Pham (or even Rafaela) as the 2nd OF'er to Verdugo?

 

We don't need all 4 slots to work out, but the one or two we choose to go with will probably have to hold the fort down to the deadline.

[moonslav59]

It's a combination of how much you spend and how wisely you spend it. The Sox have a large expenditure this year but are also carrying dead money contracts and woefully underperforming contracts. The extension of Sale was questionable at the time and getting Price of the books will help. W e had a badly underperforming contract with Barnes and the Paxton contract was aa total loss this year. The JBJ/Renfroe trace was the ultimate head scratcher. Not all of this was on Bloom but it is a reflection on the Sox front office. Let's avoid the errors of the past. spend wisely and react more quickly when problems surface, such as relief pitching, the outfield and first base.

 

Yes, but only Sale looks like a possible dead money large contract after '22.

[Old Red]

Well the Sox have won a few, but aren’t moving up anywhere, but are getting closer too 500.

 

3 games from 500

 

7 games in the L column from last place in the Div.

 

9 games in the L column from last Wild Card spot.

[notin]

Unless you're the Dodgers, who in the past year: inked Bauer when he was Cy Young, right before he became a banned deviant; traded top prospects for Scherzer, who then signed with the Mets; lost their best pitcher and WAR leader from '21, Buehler, to injury for the season... and yet, they're still 50 games over .500!

 

I’m coming to grips that many people have no concept of time…

[notin]

The problem is I want major league players back in a trade like Manny, or Pedro, and not a prospect.What’s wrong with that?

 

Mostly because it’s unrealistic. The Sox need to acquire Hall of Fame talent to make a deal in you eyes?

 

Not to mention, the Sox traded away Manny more times than they traded for him…

[notin]

Although some of our younger players have struggled or seen their "stock decline," all hope is lost on a few of even the worst 2022-looking players we have going into 2023.

 

It's easy to look at the following list and say, "That's a lot of mediocrity," and I wouldn't disagree, but some still have upside, and the sheer number we have makes me think a few will likely shine at some point, hopefully soon. One major problem is knowing which ones will shine, and harder yet, planning on which slots to roll the dice on.

 

Here's a look at the positions we have the greatest need. (I see SP, 2B/SS and CF as the three we have to fill and not leave to chance or unfounded hopes.)

(Farm)

C: McGuire, Wong, RHern (Cottam/Hickey)

1B: Casas, Hosmer, Dalbec, Arroyo-Cordero (Jordan)

2B: (Story at SS) Arroyo, EValdez (Rafaela/Downs/Koss/Hamilton/Yorke/Paulino)

SS: (Story at 2B) Downs, Arroyo (Lugo/Mayer/Bonaci/Romero)

CF: ______ Verdugo, Duran (Rafaela/Ja Davis/Bleis)

RF: Verdugo, Refsnyder (W Abreu/Anthony)

DH: Cordero-Dalbec, Arroyo, EValdez (Kavadas)

 

(Assuming we bring back Wacha or add a SP1 or SP2, at least)

SP4/5:Whitlock (RP?)-Houck (RP), Bello, Mata, Crawford, Winckowski, Seabold

(Walter, TWard, Murphy, VSantos/Drohan/Wikelman/Uberstine)

 

(After Whitlock, Houck, Schreiber)

RP: Taylor, Barnes, Brasier, Danish, German, Kelly (converted SP)

(Ed Bazardo/DHern/Sawamura/Ort/Politi/Feltman/Thompson/Fernandez/Wallace)

 

 

Not counting minor league depth, how many SPs do you think the Sox are going to add next season?

 

I’d be surprised if it was more than one, unless they give Eovaldi a QO, against my wishes.

 

Despite their recent uselessness, the Sox do control Sale and Paxton for next season (they’re not walking away from Paxton). Pivetta will be back. And if Eovaldi chooses to return, he and (not a fan of this) Whitlock likely round out the rotation.

 

Bello, Crawford, Winckowski in AAA for depth.

 

I’d love to see them raid the Marlins for a SP, but I don’t see a match beyond maybe a Dalbec/Eleiser Hernandez swap. (Hernandez is a terrific talent, but hurt a lot.). Or maybe Duran for Sixto Sanchez, whose father better than Hernandez but hurt even more. Casas for Pablo Lopez? (It’s close on BTV.)

 

If the Sox are going to spend this off-season, it needs to start internally. Extend Devers.

[moonslav59]

Not counting minor league depth, how many SPs do you think the Sox are going to add next season?

 

I’d be surprised if it was more than one, unless they give Eovaldi a QO, against my wishes.

 

Despite their recent uselessness, the Sox do control Sale and Paxton for next season (they’re not walking away from Paxton). Pivetta will be back. And if Eovaldi chooses to return, he and (not a fan of this) Whitlock likely round out the rotation.

 

Bello, Crawford, Winckowski in AAA for depth.

 

I’d love to see them raid the Marlins for a SP, but I don’t see a match beyond maybe a Dalbec/Eleiser Hernandez swap. (Hernandez is a terrific talent, but hurt a lot.). Or maybe Duran for Sixto Sanchez, whose father better than Hernandez but hurt even more. Casas for Pablo Lopez? (It’s close on BTV.)

 

If the Sox are going to spend this off-season, it needs to start internally. Extend Devers.

 

I won't be surprised, if we only add one SP, but it better be a very good one- like Lopez.

 

To me, we are losing Nate, Wacha and Hill, so we should add 2 solid SP'ers. In think we should, but won't, count on Sale & Paxton as one solid SP'er at 33 GS'd. Pivetta should be counted as a 4/5 SP'er. They probably will add Whitlock to the rotation, and they might count on one prospect to take the 5 slot, so it might look like this:

 

SP1 ______

SP2 Sale/Paxton

SP3 Whitlock

SP4 Pivetta

SP5 (Sale/Paxton) Bello/Mata/TWard/Crawford/Wink/Seabold/Murphy/Walter

 

I'd rather trade for an ace and QO Wacha for this...

 

SP1 ___ACE via trade___

SP2 Sale/Paxton

SP3 Wacha

SP4 Pivetta

SP5 (Paxton/Sale) of a prospect

Whitlock in the pen.

 

[moonslav59]

Not counting minor league depth, how many SPs do you think the Sox are going to add next season?

 

I’d be surprised if it was more than one, unless they give Eovaldi a QO, against my wishes.

 

Despite their recent uselessness, the Sox do control Sale and Paxton for next season (they’re not walking away from Paxton). Pivetta will be back. And if Eovaldi chooses to return, he and (not a fan of this) Whitlock likely round out the rotation.

 

Bello, Crawford, Winckowski in AAA for depth.

 

I’d love to see them raid the Marlins for a SP, but I don’t see a match beyond maybe a Dalbec/Eleiser Hernandez swap. (Hernandez is a terrific talent, but hurt a lot.). Or maybe Duran for Sixto Sanchez, whose father better than Hernandez but hurt even more. Casas for Pablo Lopez? (It’s close on BTV.)

 

If the Sox are going to spend this off-season, it needs to start internally. Extend Devers.

 

I'd give Casas and another piece for Lopez in a heartbeat.

[Hugh2]

I'd give Casas and another piece for Lopez in a heartbeat.

 

I’d explore Mayer heading that deadline first. Now you have a cheap pitcher and a 1B next year.

[notin]

I'd give Casas and another piece for Lopez in a heartbeat.

 

I think on BTV, Casas is the more valuable piece.

[moonslav59]

I think on BTV, Casas is the more valuable piece.

 

Yes, 39.7 to 35.0, but I'd still give more- like a player who is a bubble 40 man roster guy we can include and not be so squeezed, this winter.

 

Winckowski, Seabold, RHern, Downs...

 

I'd love to try and pry Stallings from them, despite his -0.8 BTV score.

 

Casas, RHern and Seabold for Lopez & Stallings. Accepted as a Major Overpay on BTV.

[Old Red]

Mostly because it’s unrealistic. The Sox need to acquire Hall of Fame talent to make a deal in you eyes?

 

Not to mention, the Sox traded away Manny more times than they traded for him…

 

I was talking at the time about getting MAJOR LEAGUE talent back, and not prospects., so NO I wasn’t talking about getting a HOF back in a trade. Pedro was not exactly on his way to the HOF until he pitched for the Red Sox, so no just get Major League players back in trades.

[Hugh2]

I was talking at the time about getting MAJOR LEAGUE talent back, and not prospects., so NO I wasn’t talking about getting a HOF back in a trade. Pedro was not exactly on his way to the HOF until he pitched for the Red Sox, so no just get Major League players back in trades.

 

I mean, there’s a lot of inbetween here but often trades are a “a bird in hand is worth two in the bush” scenario.

 

When you suck, you’re not trading for MLB talent. You’re trading for two potential MLBers