Fire Bloom .

[cp176]

It's been a terrible start for Chaim Bloom.

 

If we lose Devers and Bogaerts as well we'll have gone a thousand percent backwards, chased out all the premium talent from Boston and replaced it with subpar performers.

 

This season alone Bloom subtracts Hunter Renfroe and adds Trevor Story for 140m and JBJ each sporting a sub .600 OPS.

 

It's a bit soon. But not a lot of positive impact from Bloom's wheeling and dealing so far. We shed salary, we shipped out top end talent, we get back, what exactly, a 10-17 team that looks like it has no shot of competing for the division title or even making the playoffs?

 

Actually and somewhat sadly, i think that you have summed it up pretty well.

[Deja Doh]

Offensively we are terrible. Of players with 10 or more at bats, only Bogaerts and Martinez have an OBP above 0.310. That's a serious problem.

For us to be competitive we need to have 4 to 6 guys with OBP above 0.360 and a team OBP above 0.339 (we are at 0.280).

[oldtimer]

With our prospect list supposedly improving, it is surprising we haven't brought up anyone other than Duran for one game, since we are clearly deficient in run scoring capability. Time to bolster the lineup, as expecting Bogaerts, Devers and Martinez to carry the load is not working.

[jad]

Why fire the guy who was done exactly what he was hired to do? In case of failure, you already have the fall guy (Cora) in place who you can certainly replace with some assistant to the assistant from Tampa and save another boatload of money.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Why fire the guy who was done exactly what he was hired to do? In case of failure, you already have the fall guy (Cora) in place who you can certainly replace with some assistant to the assistant from Tampa and save another boatload of money.

 

Scene from the movie Moneyball... John Henry to Billy Beane: "Anybody who's not tearing their team down right now and rebuilding it, using your model -- they're dinosaurs!"

 

The scene depicted the famous Fenway Park meeting where Henry made a lucrative offer to recruit Beane to run the big-market Red Sox the same way he did in small-market Oakland.

 

No one anywhere has ever said the movie characters portrayed their real-life characters out of character...

[Bellhorn04]

Scene from the movie Moneyball... John Henry to Billy Beane: "Anybody who's not tearing their team down right now and rebuilding it, using your model -- they're dinosaurs!"

 

The scene depicted the famous Fenway Park meeting where Henry made a lucrative offer to recruit Beane to run the big-market Red Sox the same way he did in small-market Oakland.

 

No one anywhere has ever said the movie characters portrayed their real-life characters out of character...

 

Oh well, it took Henry 20 years to oversee his first tear-down with the Red Sox. Looks like it's going to be a doozy.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Oh well, it took Henry 20 years to oversee his first tear-down with the Red Sox. Looks like it's going to be a doozy.

 

Ironically -- or deviously -- it appears the players saw right through the scam going into the season, and have decided to tank their own values so Bloom won't be able to maximize any decent returns at the deadline.

[Bellhorn04]

Ironically -- or deviously -- it appears the players saw right through the scam going into the season, and have decided to tank their own values so Bloom won't be able to maximize any decent returns at the deadline.

 

Possible exceptions:

 

Eovaldi

Bogey

JDM

Wacha

Hill

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Possible exceptions:

 

Eovaldi

Bogey

JDM

Wacha

Hill

 

I'd move Wacha and Hill first, before they turn into pumpkins.

[Old Red]

I'd move Wacha and Hill first, before they turn into pumpkins.

 

Hill is what he is, and at 42 I don’t think he’ll turn into a pumpkin. Squash maybe, but if Wacha keeps it up no doubt.

[jacksonianmarch]

Wacha is getting by on smoke and mirrors. Deal him before he corrects

[moonslav59]

Ironically -- or deviously -- it appears the players saw right through the scam going into the season, and have decided to tank their own values so Bloom won't be able to maximize any decent returns at the deadline.

 

Why didn't they think it was a scam, last year?

 

On paper, the teams were of pretty similar value on opening day.

 

(Remember, we added Scwarber, Iggy, Shaw and Robles, last summer.)

[jad]

Offensively we are terrible. Of players with 10 or more at bats, only Bogaerts and Martinez have an OBP above 0.310. That's a serious problem.

For us to be competitive we need to have 4 to 6 guys with OBP above 0.360 and a team OBP above 0.339 (we are at 0.280).

 

Did you forget about Devers? I don't know what ihis OBP is, but Ill bet it's above his average, which alone is better than .310.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Why didn't they think it was a scam, last year?

 

On paper, the teams were of pretty similar value on opening day.

 

(Remember, we added Scwarber, Iggy, Shaw and Robles, last summer.)

 

Because the Red Sox didn't lowball and insult their best player and face of the franchise with a public desire of loving and wanting to stay in Boston...

 

... while paying an inferior outsider more as his potential replacement...

 

... on the eve of the season...

 

... in which half a dozen other veteran mainstays were also about to play their contract years...

[notin]

Because the Red Sox didn't lowball and insult their best player and face of the franchise with a public desire of loving and wanting to stay in Boston...

 

... while paying an inferior outsider more as his potential replacement...

 

... on the eve of the season...

 

... in which half a dozen other veteran mainstays were also about to play their contract years...

 

Right.

 

And how many of those players have Scott “Let me take you to free agency” Boras as their agent?

 

Again, no counteroffer from Bogaerts? Don’t feed me the “he was too insulted” ********. Because chances are very good he wasn’t even there and because saying “no” without a counter is an old and extremely well-known Boras tactic.

 

But if your argument is these guys are intentionally tanking because they are not being overpaid enough - let them all f***ing walk. Seriously.

 

I can understand concern over contract. But tanking because of someone else’s contract? That shouldn’t be condoned…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Right.

 

And how many of those players have Scott “Let me take you to free agency” Boras as their agent?

 

Again, no counteroffer from Bogaerts? Don’t feed me the “he was too insulted” ********. Because chances are very good he wasn’t even there and because saying “no” without a counter is an old and extremely well-known Boras tactic.

 

But if your argument is these guys are intentionally tanking because they are not being overpaid enough - let them all f***ing walk. Seriously.

 

I can understand concern over contract. But tanking because of someone else’s contract? That shouldn’t be condoned…

 

I'm not defending them. I'd rather watch prospects with a hunger for, name it: playing the game, winning, striking it rich, buying a house for their parents, setting up their children's children for life (or at least college tuition). People forget these are all mostly young men with egos who have never been booed before, but instead have had folks besides family and friends telling them at almost every level they're the greatest.

 

But they're close in the clubhouse and on the road, at the very least by association. And when they see the star of the team disrespected by the front office -- and this was a guy who ordered his super agent to take less to stay in Boston in his last contract -- and they're wondering where they're going to be working next year or next month, it's totally understandable if some are less enthusiastic and going through the motions awaiting the inevitable change of scenery.

[jad]

So the problem with the RS this year is Scott Boras?

[Old Red]

Right.

 

And how many of those players have Scott “Let me take you to free agency” Boras as their agent?

 

Again, no counteroffer from Bogaerts? Don’t feed me the “he was too insulted” ********. Because chances are very good he wasn’t even there and because saying “no” without a counter is an old and extremely well-known Boras tactic.

 

But if your argument is these guys are intentionally tanking because they are not being overpaid enough - let them all f***ing walk. Seriously.

 

I can understand concern over contract. But tanking because of someone else’s contract? That shouldn’t be condoned…

 

You don’t counter offer an offer that was so low ball in more ways than one. Bogey is the leader in that clubhouse, and on the field, but I don’t think anyone is tanking although I do think the rest of the team was disgusted by it. The low ball offer shouldn’t be condoned either.

[Maxbialystock]

I think managers are evaluated primarily on wins and losses vs. expectations by the front office.

 

And I think Bloom, who, granted, as some specific guidance from owner John Henry, is also evaluated primarily on wins and losses vs expectations. But in Bloom's case those expectations are tied somewhat to the total payroll cost.

 

According to Spotrac, the Sox payroll this year is $202M, 6th highest in MLB, and their W-L is 10-19, .345, 4th worst in MLB. That's pretty awful, although the $202M is slightly ameliorated by knowing that $42M of it is going to Price, Sale, and Paxton.

 

Plus, of course, the Sox have played just 29 games with 133 still to be played.

 

On the other hand, this Sox team is the worst hitting/scoring Sox team in the John Henry era by a pretty big margin. 2/3 of the batting order stinks, and that includes high-priced acquisition Story and two returning good-bats-gone-sour in Verdugo and Hernandez. Bobby Dalbec is a month short of 27 and seems no closer to figuring out MLB pitching. Opposing managers should fine any pitcher who walks Dalbec. JBJ is back with his "great field, no hit" routine.

 

And this. The three good hitters on this team--JDM, Bogey, and Devers--could very well be gone next year if not sooner.

[mvp 78]

You don’t counter offer an offer that was so low ball in more ways than one. Bogey is the leader in that clubhouse, and on the field, but I don’t think anyone is tanking although I do think the rest of the team was disgusted by it. The low ball offer shouldn’t be condoned either.

 

How low do you think the offer was?

[notin]

You don’t counter offer an offer that was so low ball in more ways than one. Bogey is the leader in that clubhouse, and on the field, but I don’t think anyone is tanking although I do think the rest of the team was disgusted by it. The low ball offer shouldn’t be condoned either.

 

I’m willing to bet fans are making a bigger deal of it than Bogaerts is…

[mvp 78]

I’m willing to bet fans are making a bigger deal of it than Bogaerts is…

 

Seems like it anyway.

[Bellhorn04]

How low do you think the offer was?

 

It's been reported that they only offered to add one year at $30 mill to the remaining 3 years and $60 mill.

[notin]

So the problem with the RS this year is Scott Boras?

 

No. Not the point.

 

But if a player chooses to be represented by Boras, what does that tell you?

[moonslav59]

No. Not the point.

 

But if a player chooses to be represented by Boras, what does that tell you?

 

That he wants a good agent?

 

Is this a trick question?

[mvp 78]

That he wants a good agent?

 

Is this a trick question?

 

???

[Old Red]

How low do you think the offer was?

 

The only thing I have heard was the 1 yr ext for $30M. I don’t believe a 3 yr ext for $30M would have been good enough.

[mvp 78]

The only thing I have heard was the 1 yr ext for $30M. I don’t believe a 3 yr ext for $30M would have been good enough.

 

Ewww. No. Definitely not good enough.

[jad]

Yeah, because you sure as hell don't want to offer Bogey Trevor-Story money!

[moonslav59]

The only thing I have heard was the 1 yr ext for $30M. I don’t believe a 3 yr ext for $30M would have been good enough.

 

I don't think Bogey would take a 3 year deal, even at $30M each, but if they offered that, at least they could sat they made a market level offer.

 

He'd probably rather take $25M x 5 than $30M x 3. I think he gets $25M+ x 6+. Maybe 25 x 8 or $26M x 7 or $27M x 6?.

 

I'm curious how many here would offer that.

 

I would have offer something like what Story got, maybe a little more, but now that we have Story, I would not.