2022 Starting Rotation Thread

[Kimmi]

Our farm would be much better if we never tried to win a WS.

 

Stop.

[mvp 78]

Stop.

 

I can’t.

[notin]

Glibberish? It’s just my opinion, and just like your opinion calling it glibberish. Never said any of this was factual.

 

It is completely unsupported.

 

The Sox remain after all these years to still be among the top spending teams in MLB. And this is year three of Bloom.

 

If Henry’s plan - as you and others have suggested - is to dial back spending on the Red Sox, when exactly is that going to start? Both Cot’s and Sportrac still have the Sox with the fifth highest payroll in MLB…

[Old Red]

It is completely unsupported.

 

The Sox remain after all these years to still be among the top spending teams in MLB. And this is year three of Bloom.

 

If Henry’s plan - as you and others have suggested - is to dial back spending on the Red Sox, when exactly is that going to start? Both Cot’s and Sportrac still have the Sox with the fifth highest payroll in MLB…

 

Where did I say that the Red Sox didn’t have a high payroll, or is spending money? I didn’t, but except for Story most of what makes up the payroll came before Bloom got there, and with all the bargain basement shopping is just replacing bargains that left after last year ended. The telltale sign will be what the team looks like next year, and what the payroll will be, so to keep saying the payroll is high now is not in question.

[moonslav59]

It is completely unsupported.

 

The Sox remain after all these years to still be among the top spending teams in MLB. And this is year three of Bloom.

 

If Henry’s plan - as you and others have suggested - is to dial back spending on the Red Sox, when exactly is that going to start? Both Cot’s and Sportrac still have the Sox with the fifth highest payroll in MLB…

 

No doubt, and if someone wants to read deeply into the "dial back" of 2020 and 2021, they should look at Henry's history of spending more in spurts and dialing back a bit in between. There was no reason to think this latest slight dial back was going to be long lasting and the Story signing is a sign the short "dial back" is over.

 

We dialed it back a little in 2005, 2008 through 2009, 2012 & '14 before this latest one. Even those seasons were big spending seasons compared to more than two-thirds of the season. It's been a pretty solid pattern through Henry's tenure.

 

I do see a similarity between Ben and Bloom and the shift in philosophy towards a more balanced approach between the farm and big club. I can't see why some view that as a negative thing.

 

It seems like the best way to plan for sustained winning, and I'm pretty certain Henry will open his wallet when we seem to be a key player or two away from being a top contender. I'm not sure we are there, right now.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Those who like to point to the Story contract as proof that the Red Sox are still big spenders on star players conveniently ignore that $140 million is probably at most half of what it will take to keep Bogaerts or Devers.

 

If the Sox just retain one of those two, or even pay their ace, Eovaldi, market rate, it will show fans of the players wearing the laundry, as well the clubhouse and future free agents, that Boston is serious.

 

Now someone who works in the front office using an alias on this forum will post numbers to show how spending the same amounts instead on revolving rosters of many new mediocre players each year still equals a big market budget.

[notin]

Those who like to point to the Story contract as proof that the Red Sox are still big spenders on star players conveniently ignore that $140 million is probably at most half of what it will take to keep Bogaerts or Devers.

 

If the Sox just retain one of those two, or even pay their ace, Eovaldi, market rate, it will show fans of the players wearing the laundry, as well the clubhouse and future free agents, that Boston is serious.

 

Now someone who works in the front office using an alias on this forum will post numbers to show how spending the same amounts instead on revolving rosters of many new mediocre players each year still equals a big market budget.

 

Maybe half of Devers, but no way Bogaerts is looking at $280mill at his age. In fact, the $140mill is probably not far off what Bogaerts gets…

[Bellhorn04]

Those who like to point to the Story contract as proof that the Red Sox are still big spenders on star players conveniently ignore that $140 million is probably at most half of what it will take to keep Bogaerts or Devers.

 

If the Sox just retain one of those two, or even pay their ace, Eovaldi, market rate, it will show fans of the players wearing the laundry, as well the clubhouse and future free agents, that Boston is serious.

 

Now someone who works in the front office using an alias on this forum will post numbers to show how spending the same amounts instead on revolving rosters of many new mediocre players each year still equals a big market budget.

 

You've moved the goalposts, though, haven't you? I remember you expressing a lot of doubt that Bloom would even give out a Story-type contract.

 

Now a Story-type contract has become chump change.

 

Nicely done.

[Bellhorn04]

Here's what you get for $500 million

 

C Seager 243 BA 589 OPS

M Semien 167 457

 

Red Sox fans wouldn't be complaining about those slow starts, though.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Maybe half of Devers, but no way Bogaerts is looking at $280mill at his age. In fact, the $140mill is probably not far off what Bogaerts gets…

 

I'm thinking Bogie and Boras demand and expect at least $200: $180 for another 6 years, plus a $10M bump on his last two $20M years of the current contract... that way, a $30 AAV will make him feel respected.

[Old Red]

You've moved the goalposts, though, haven't you? I remember you expressing a lot of doubt that Bloom would even give out a Story-type contract.

 

Now a Story-type contract has become chump change.

 

Nicely done.

 

Story isn’t chump change, but what does that say if it’s at the expense of resigning Bogey, and Raffy?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

You've moved the goalposts, though, haven't you? I remember you expressing a lot of doubt that Bloom would even give out a Story-type contract.

 

Now a Story-type contract has become chump change.

 

Nicely done.

 

I was surprised he signed Story but never said it was chump change. Instead, I consistently said I'd rather Bloom use that approximate AAV to sign a legitimate starting pitcher like Rodon, Thor or even longer term guys like Stroman, Ray or Gausman. Some have started hot, some cold, but the Sox need starters, because that's where it all begins. The only arms I didn't want were vets with a lot of mileage.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Story isn’t chump change, but what does that say if it’s at the expense of resigning Bogey, and Raffy?

 

A concern for some of us who care about fan favorites isn't that Story was signed "at the expense of," but instead of...

[moonslav59]

Here's what you get for $500 million

 

C Seager 243 BA 589 OPS

M Semien 167 457

 

Red Sox fans wouldn't be complaining about those slow starts, though.

 

Did not mention Baez- the guy I wanted.

[Old Red]

A concern for some of us who care about fan favorites isn't that Story was signed "at the expense of," but instead of...

 

I said at the time of the Story signing that he should help this year, but if Bogey, and Raffy don’t get resigned Story would be just a cheaper fill in, and wouldn’t like it.

[notin]

I'm thinking Bogie and Boras demand and expect at least $200: $180 for another 6 years, plus a $10M bump on his last two $20M years of the current contract... that way, a $30 AAV will make him feel respected.

 

Maybe.

 

But I look at it this way..

 

Since 2018, the top 3 shortstops using fWAR are 1. Semien 2. Bogaerts 3. Story. Semien is a little older.

 

Semien got a 7 year deal with a $25mill AAV. Story got a 6 year deal with a $23mill AAV. So for Bogaerts, I’m expecting a 6 year deal in the $144-150 mill range…

[notin]

A concern for some of us who care about fan favorites isn't that Story was signed "at the expense of," but instead of...

 

Of course many those same players are the ones who want to test free agency in spite of our loyalty…

[Old Red]

Maybe.

 

But I look at it this way..

 

Since 2018, the top 3 shortstops using fWAR are 1. Semien 2. Bogaerts 3. Story. Semien is a little older.

 

Semien got a 7 year deal with a $25mill AAV. Story got a 6 year deal with a $23mill AAV. So for Bogaerts, I’m expecting a 6 year deal in the $144-150 mill range…

 

If Bogey would sign for 6/150 then get out the pen now, but I think he wants more than that. I know Boris does.

[notin]

If Bogey would sign for 6/150 then get out the pen now, but I think he wants more than that. I know Boris does.

 

But will he get more?

 

That’s probably his limit, though, considering he’ll be 30 and probably not have too much shortstop left in him…

[Old Red]

But will he get more?

 

That’s probably his limit, though, considering he’ll be 30 and probably not have too much shortstop left in him…

 

I don’t know if he will get more, but it’s going to be an interesting saga to see where he ends up, and for how much.

[notin]

I don’t know if he will get more, but it’s going to be an interesting saga to see where he ends up, and for how much.

 

I’ve already answered the “how much” part for you…

[moonslav59]

I'm not very good at guessing contracts, but I'm guessing $200M/8, maybe with an opt out or a 9th year option that adds some to the 8 with a buyout.

[Old Red]

I’ve already answered the “how much” part for you…

 

I didn’t know you was doing the signing for some club.

[Old Red]

I'm not very good at guessing contracts, but I'm guessing $200M/8, maybe with an opt out or a 9th year option that adds some to the 8 with a buyout.

 

I’m all for giving Bogey 6, but nothing more than that to take him into his late 30’s.

[mvp 78]

I'm not sure Wacha can sustain this all season, but I'll enjoy it for now.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm not sure Wacha can sustain this all season, but I'll enjoy it for now.

 

Now why would you want to do that?

[mvp 78]

Now why would you want to do that?

Every once in a while, it's nice to enjoy what you follow rather than get angry at it.

[Nick]

Why are we discussing Xander's contract in the "2022 Starting Rotation" thread? Is he going to pitch with his next contract?

[moonslav59]

Why are we discussing Xander's contract in the "2022 Starting Rotation" thread? Is he going to pitch with his next contract?

 

Yes, because he won't play 2B.

 

LOL!

[Old Red]

Yes, because he won't play 2B.

 

LOL!

 

And nor should he at least for this year, and it looks like Cora who knows what he’s doing agrees.