Will there be a 2022 season?

[mvp 78]

The union and owners remain distant on several important issues, including a pre-arbitration bonus pool. The owners increased their offer on a bonus pool from $15 million to $20 million for 30 pre-arbitration players, The Athletic’s Evan Drellich reported. But the players want a $115 million pool for 150 players, according to Drellich.

 

Not sure why it's a big deal for the owners.....$4M per team?

 

That's the big question. I think the small market owners are really focused on limited payroll liability as much as possible. If the O's bring up Adley, they won't want to be on an unexpected prearb "penalty" IMO. They'd want to pay him the minimum at most.

[mvp 78]

The really dumb part of all this is almost immediately after spending weeks trying to limit spending and controlling player salaries and team payroll, and both sides finally agree, some team owner is going to approve a 10 year $350mill deal for Carlos Correa…

 

The second the deal is signed, there will be a flurry of moves. Owners aren't crying poor here. They are just putting out a narrative that the players aren't bargaining in good faith and need to make greater concessions.

[notin]

The second the deal is signed, there will be a flurry of moves. Owners aren't crying poor here. They are just putting out a narrative that the players aren't bargaining in good faith and need to make greater concessions.

 

And once both sides agree, it will be business as usual…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

having a lockout now, avoids a midseason strike if no deal is made.

 

See? These kajillionaires are doing this for the fans!

[Old Red]

See? These kajillionaires are doing this for the fans!

 

And what are the fans doing for themselves? No matter what happens the fans will go running back with open arms.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

And what are the fans doing for themselves? No matter what happens the fans will go running back with open arms.

 

... and wallets

[Old Red]

... and wallets

 

Yes, and the fans will even pay more than they did before.

[moonslav59]

I'm curious how much ticket prices have gone up over the last 20-30 years for...

 

a MLB game

 

an NBA game

 

an NFL game

 

An NHL game

 

a movie

 

a concert

 

a night out bowling

 

Is MLB way out of whack on pricing?

[Bellhorn04]

I'm curious how much ticket prices have gone up over the last 20-30 years for...

 

a MLB game

 

an NBA game

 

an NFL game

 

An NHL game

 

a movie

 

a concert

 

a night out bowling

 

Is MLB way out of whack on pricing?

 

Other sports have gotten pretty expensive too.

 

Concert prices have skyrocketed, which has been tied to the big decline in sales of physical product.

 

Fenway has the highest average prices, and all the amenities are expensive as heck, so people tend to pick on it as being on a gouge. Not without some justification, of course. But in return they also place high expectations on the team to provide good entertainment.

[Old Red]

Other sports have gotten pretty expensive too.

 

Concert prices have skyrocketed, which has been tied to the big decline in sales of physical product.

 

Fenway has the highest average prices, and all the amenities are expensive as heck, so people tend to pick on it as being on a gouge. Not without some justification, of course. But in return they also place high expectations on the team to provide good entertainment.

 

Fenway has been up at the top for ticket prices for years.

[Bellhorn04]

Fenway has been up at the top for ticket prices for years.

 

How do Red Sox ticket prices compare to Patriots, Celtics and Bruins prices?

[Old Red]

How do Red Sox ticket prices compare to Patriots, Celtics and Bruins prices?

 

Don’t know, and don’t care.

[moonslav59]

Other sports have gotten pretty expensive too.

 

Concert prices have skyrocketed, which has been tied to the big decline in sales of physical product.

 

Fenway has the highest average prices, and all the amenities are expensive as heck, so people tend to pick on it as being on a gouge. Not without some justification, of course. But in return they also place high expectations on the team to provide good entertainment.

 

Agreed. I'd bet concert prices have increased by way more than any sport or any team.

 

Yes, the Sox have been on the very high end of the MLB spectrum for many years, but I'm curious how much they have increased compared to other teams, leagues and entertainment options. I'm thinking they are probably not way out of line from the norm- in terms of percentage increase over the last 2-3 decades.

[Old Red]

Agreed. I'd bet concert prices have increased by way more than any sport or any team.

 

Yes, the Sox have been on the very high end of the MLB spectrum for many years, but I'm curious how much they have increased compared to other teams, leagues and entertainment options. I'm thinking they are probably not way out of line from the norm- in terms of percentage increase over the last 2-3 decades.

 

You have already raised this point before, but it doesn’t change the fact that Fenway is at the top.

[moonslav59]

Here’s where each side stands on the key issues.

 

Minimum Salary

MLB: $630K, or fixed $615K/$650K/$725K salaries for 0-3 players

MLBPA: $775K in 2022, $805K in 2023, $835K in 2024, $865K in 2025, $895K in 2026

Current gap: $145K in 2022

I'm thinking maybe they agree on $725K plus $20K each year, ending at $805K

 

 

Competitive Balance Tax

MLB: Base tax thresholds at $214MM in 2022/ $214MM in 2023/ $216MM in 2024 / $218MM in 2025 / $222MM in 2026. Also proposing significant increases in tax rates on overages and new draft pick penalties.

MLBPA: $245MM in 2022 / $252MM in 2023 / $259MM in 2024 / $266MM in 2025 / $273MM in 2026

Current gap: $31MM in 2022, growing to $51MM in 2026. Gap also includes MLB’s proposed increases in tax rates and addition of draft pick forfeiture

I don't see the owners giving much up, here. Maybe we see $220M in 2022 and $5M additions each year, ending at $240M.

 

Draft Pick Compensation

MLB: Has proposed eliminating draft pick forfeiture for teams that sign free agents. Their plan still calls for teams to get draft picks for losing free agents, depending on the quality of the player. This offer seems to be tied to MLB’s CBT proposal as sort of a trade.

Maybe this gets in.

 

Pre-Arbitration Bonus Pool

MLB: $20MM pool. MLB has agreed to fund a bonus pool for pre-arbitration players, which would be a new addition to the CBA. They have proposed “a six-person panel — three from each side — to develop a mutually agreeable WAR statistic to allocate the funds,” according to ESPN’s Jesse Rogers. He adds, “The top 30 players in WAR and award winners would be eligible for the bonus pool.”

MLBPA: $115MM pool, distributed to 150 players.

Current gap: $95MM

I can't see this gaining much traction. I think the players lose, here.

 

Arbitration Eligibility

MLB: No change in which players are eligible for arbitration. In the previous CBA, the top 22% of 2+ players were arbitration eligible, known as Super Two players.

MLBPA: Top 75% of players in the 2+ service class eligible for arbitration

I see the players making gains, here. Maybe they settle on 40%- 50% tops.

 

Service Time Manipulation

MLB: Offering two draft picks within the player’s first three years if he finishes in the top three in Cy Young, Rookie of the Year or MVP voting (per Jesse Rogers)

MLBPA: “Players receive a full year of service time in their rookie season if infielders and catchers finish among the top seven for their position in WAR in each league, with outfielders, relief pitchers and starting pitchers finishing among the top 20. The union also said it would accept a modification of MLB’s proposal that would reward draft pick compensation to teams whose players finish among the top three in the Rookie of the Year, MVP and Cy Young voting.” (per USA Today’s Bob Nightengale)

Not sure about any of this.

 

Anti-Tanking Measures

MLB: Lottery for top four picks

MLBPA: Lottery for top seven picks. Under the union’s offer, teams would find themselves excluded from the lottery for finishing below certain thresholds in the standings for two to three consecutive seasons. The specific thresholds for exclusion varied depending upon market size, with larger-market clubs facing stricter requirements for lottery eligibility.

Probably settle on top 5 or6 picks.

 

Revenue Sharing

MLB: No change to revenue sharing

MLBPA: $30MM reduction

I see no change, here.

 

Expanded Playoffs

MLB: 14 teams

MLBPA: 12 teams

12 teams is my bet.

 

Universal Designated Hitter

This seems to be generally agreed upon by both sides.

About time, and why not Robo Umps, too?

 

While it seemed like I projected a lot of wins for the owners, I think the players would make out well, if all of my guesses come true. To me, if they could make further gains anywhere, it would be on the min salary.

[moonslav59]

You have already raised this point before, but it doesn’t change the fact that Fenway is at the top.

 

I'm not denying that. My point is about how much prices have been rising comparatively. If that is not of interest to you, fine.

[Old Red]

I'm not denying that. My point is about how much prices have been rising comparatively. If that is not of interest to you, fine.

 

Not really, and I wouldn’t think how much some other form of entertainment would cost if I decided to by a ticket to get into Fenway, but if it interest you there is nothing wrong with that.

[moonslav59]

Not really, and I wouldn’t think how much some other form of entertainment would cost if I decided to by a ticket to get into Fenway, but if it interest you there is nothing wrong with that.

 

I try to see things within the context of other entertainment costs and increased costs.

 

I've been to over 100 concerts and love live music, but the cost of going to see good bands is now off-the-charts. In that context, seeing a Sox game is a bargain.

 

I have a good situation living near Houston. I can see the Sox 2-3 times a year for a fraction of the cost at Fenway. Plus, the seats and climate are more comfortable in Houston.

[Old Red]

I try to see things within the context of other entertainment costs and increased costs.

 

I've been to over 100 concerts and love live music, but the cost of going to see good bands is now off-the-charts. In that context, seeing a Sox game is a bargain.

 

I have a good situation living near Houston. I can see the Sox 2-3 times a year for a fraction of the cost at Fenway. Plus, the seats and climate are more comfortable in Houston.

 

Concerts are off the charts, but what gets me more is the cost of hotel rooms near the concert. I saw some old guy named Elton, and the hotel rooms went up close to $300 the night of the concert.

[moonslav59]

Concerts are off the charts, but what gets me more is the cost of hotel rooms near the concert. I saw some old guy named Elton, and the hotel rooms went up close to $300 the night of the concert.

 

We were going to buy tickets to see Elton here in Houston, but ticket prices were absurd.

 

Our daughter ended up getting us tickets for King's Day.

 

September 24th, baby!!!

[mvp 78]

Patriots 2006: 90.89

Patriots 2021: 131.45

Patriots increase: 45% increase

 

Red Sox 2006: 46.46

Red Sox 2021: 98

Red Sox increase: 110%

 

Celtics 2006: 57.04

Celtics 2021: 93

Celtics increase: 63%

 

Bruins 2006: 56.44

Bruins 2021: 120

Bruins increase: 112%

[moonslav59]

Patriots 2006: 90.89

Patriots 2021: 131.45

Patriots increase: 45% increase

 

Red Sox 2006: 46.46

Red Sox 2021: 98

Red Sox increase: 110%

 

Celtics 2006: 57.04

Celtics 2021: 93

Celtics increase: 63%

 

Bruins 2006: 56.44

Bruins 2021: 120

Bruins increase: 112%

 

Thanks for the research. I did not expect the Sox to have the 2nd highest increase. (I expected 3rd or 4th.)

[jad]

Concerts are off the charts, but what gets me more is the cost of hotel rooms near the concert. I saw some old guy named Elton, and the hotel rooms went up close to $300 the night of the concert.

 

Exactly who is it that you are directing this complaint to? Fans and concert-goers willing to pay that price?

[a700hitter]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2022/02/22/goose-gossage-blasts-state-mlb-rob-manfred-brian-cashman/6891954001/

 

i always respected Goose and hated to see him on the mound. I agree with almost everything he is reported to have said in this article, and I would love to see him punch Manfred in the nose. I am not sure why he wants to put Cashman headfirst in a garbage can, but I would enjoy seeing that too.

[Nick]

yet no one complains about increase in price of gas.

[mvp 78]

Exactly who is it that you are directing this complaint to? Fans and concert-goers willing to pay that price?

 

OLD RED is mad at the capitalist pigs, comrade.

[Old Red]

yet no one complains about increase in price of gas.

 

Is this a trick question, because everyone that I know, and lots of people I don’t know complain about the price of gas.

[mvp 78]

yet no one complains about increase in price of gas.

 

Gas prices have been higher in my lifetime and often fluctuate. Ticket cost for professional sports have never been higher and I don't think they are going to decrease any time soon.

[Old Red]

Exactly who is it that you are directing this complaint to? Fans and concert-goers willing to pay that price?

 

To each it’s own when it comes to shelling out money to make rich people more rich. Nothing wrong with doing it, and nothing wrong with not doing it. Once again two sides to a story.

[Old Red]

Gas prices have been higher in my lifetime and often fluctuate. Ticket cost for professional sports have never been higher and I don't think they are going to decrease any time soon.

 

That’s because the players, and owners know they have the fans in their greasy palms of their hands that go into their wallets.