Will there be a 2022 season?

[mvp 78]

From the Passan article:

 

Sports is a unique industry. Typically, workers make a product. In baseball, they are the product. The game of baseball is the framework, and in it exists two classes: players and owners. Players spend their entire lives chasing the major leagues. Just making it there is improbable. Staying long enough to make life-changing money is a miracle. Owners, on the other hand -- at least those who don't inherit their teams -- join the baseball world just as they would a country club: by buying membership.

 

If you went and got the next 1,200 best players in the world, the product would suffer greatly. If you handed MLB teams over to any 30 competent businesspeople, the sport would not suffer. Actually, it might improve. It doesn't take a billionaire to leverage a spot in a legalized monopoly with profound built-in revenues.

 

The Yankees are not the Yankees if Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Mickey Mantle and Yogi Berra don't win. Without the best players, they aren't in the World Series, and without championships, they're little more than an organization in a big market whose laundry features pinstripes. One would think, then, that a league would recognize that its profits exist because of Shohei Ohtani, Fernando Tatis Jr., Mike Trout, Juan Soto, Mookie Betts, Ronald Acuña Jr., Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and others -- and would see players' concerns about the state of the game not as trivial or excessive or outrageous, but vital.

[moonslav59]

From the Passan article:

 

Sports is a unique industry. Typically, workers make a product. In baseball, they are the product. The game of baseball is the framework, and in it exists two classes: players and owners. Players spend their entire lives chasing the major leagues. Just making it there is improbable. Staying long enough to make life-changing money is a miracle. Owners, on the other hand -- at least those who don't inherit their teams -- join the baseball world just as they would a country club: by buying membership.

 

If you went and got the next 1,200 best players in the world, the product would suffer greatly. If you handed MLB teams over to any 30 competent businesspeople, the sport would not suffer. Actually, it might improve. It doesn't take a billionaire to leverage a spot in a legalized monopoly with profound built-in revenues.

 

The Yankees are not the Yankees if Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Mickey Mantle and Yogi Berra don't win. Without the best players, they aren't in the World Series, and without championships, they're little more than an organization in a big market whose laundry features pinstripes. One would think, then, that a league would recognize that its profits exist because of Shohei Ohtani, Fernando Tatis Jr., Mike Trout, Juan Soto, Mookie Betts, Ronald Acuña Jr., Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and others -- and would see players' concerns about the state of the game not as trivial or excessive or outrageous, but vital.

 

The best passage in the article.

[jad]

Yup. Why anyone sides with them is beyond me. If corporations are your thing, then why not see if you can sit in on corporate board meetings (wow! the drama!), or maybe offer to caddy for these a-holes at their country club.

[Bellhorn04]

Well, apparently they've made some progress and extended the deadline for non-shortened season until 5 PM today.

 

But still far apart on some issues, of course.

[moonslav59]

Yup. Why anyone sides with them is beyond me. If corporations are your thing, then why not see if you can sit in on corporate board meetings (wow! the drama!), or maybe offer to caddy for these a-holes at their country club.

 

The owners are barely allowing the players to keep up with inflation.

 

They make way more money than they pretend to make, and then when they sell the team, they reap huge rewards.

 

I'm fine with figuring out a way to keep a few teams from spending way more than others, or a few players to make a large percent of all the player salary, but the lower paid players deserve better- MUCH better!

[Old Red]

Yup. Why anyone sides with them is beyond me. If corporations are your thing, then why not see if you can sit in on corporate board meetings (wow! the drama!), or maybe offer to caddy for these a-holes at their country club.

 

I’m not with either side, but if you think the player cares about you the fan I don’t think think is close to be true, and they are just as greedy as the owners. If they want more money let them become owners. Greedy, and greedier, and the fan sits back, and takes it all, and pays more, and more.time for the fan to take a stand.

[sk7326]

The owners are barely allowing the players to keep up with inflation.

 

They make way more money than they pretend to make, and then when they sell the team, they reap huge rewards.

 

I'm fine with figuring out a way to keep a few teams from spending way more than others, or a few players to make a large percent of all the player salary, but the lower paid players deserve better- MUCH better!

 

For me - it has just been very hard for me to justify any of management's points when other sports have shown much more financial transparency and realized that making players stakeholders uncomplicates things for everybody. Now - salary caps did not come without some serious labor pain ... the players know it's role is to reduce salaries ... but the players in the NBA and NFL are far better off en masse than baseball players are.

[sk7326]

I’m not with either side, but if you think the player cares about you the fan I don’t think think is close to be true, and they are just as greedy as the owners. If they want more money let them become owners. Greedy, and greedier, and the fan sits back, and takes it all, and pays more, and more.time for the fan to take a stand.

 

I don't think they care about the fan per se ... but I know they love baseball at least as much as I do - indeed more.

[jad]

For me - it has just been very hard for me to justify any of management's points when other sports have shown much more financial transparency and realized that making players stakeholders uncomplicates things for everybody. Now - salary caps did not come without some serious labor pain ... the players know it's role is to reduce salaries ... but the players in the NBA and NFL are far better off en masse than baseball players are.

 

I of course agree with all of this, except the last sentence: the length of career of an NFL player is 3.3 years (MLB, I'm told, is 5.6) and despite the risk of injury, the money is not guaranteed (NFL also has a tax-payer funded minor league in which players can spend 5 years or more and for which they earn 0).

[sk7326]

I of course agree with all of this, except the last sentence: the length of career of an NFL player is 3.3 years (MLB, I'm told, is 5.6) and despite the risk of injury, the money is not guaranteed (NFL also has a tax-payer funded minor league in which players can spend 5 years or more and for which they earn 0).

 

Your points are fair ... but for that reason the NFLPA has always chosen "more money now" when there have been negotiations (including the most recent round). They have not serious contested the guaranteed contract thing - and to be fair, the use of signing bonuses in the NFL creates some level of guarantee anyway.

[jad]

I’m not with either side, but if you think the player cares about you the fan I don’t think think is close to be true, and they are just as greedy as the owners. If they want more money let them become owners. Greedy, and greedier, and the fan sits back, and takes it all, and pays more, and more.time for the fan to take a stand.

 

You can take a stand any time you want. Go ahead. But don't ask me to join you. I am hardly going to enjoy baseball more if the players make less money! Why would I? Do I enjoy the SeaDogs more than the RS?

[Old Red]

The owners are barely allowing the players to keep up with inflation.

 

They make way more money than they pretend to make, and then when they sell the team, they reap huge rewards.

 

I'm fine with figuring out a way to keep a few teams from spending way more than others, or a few players to make a large percent of all the player salary, but the lower paid players deserve better- MUCH better!

 

With an average salary of 4+M the players are far from poor, poor players.

[Old Red]

You can take a stand any time you want. Go ahead. But don't ask me to join you. I am hardly going to enjoy baseball more if the players make less money! Why would I? Do I enjoy the SeaDogs more than the RS?

 

Like I said earlier poor, poor players they are not, and I’d enjoy the SeaDogs just as much as the RS.

[Bellhorn04]

Like I said earlier poor, poor players they are not, and I’d enjoy the SeaDogs just as much as the RS.

 

But some of those Sea Dogs dream of playing in the majors and making a lot more money, so they're greedy too!

[Old Red]

But some of those Sea Dogs dream of playing in the majors and making a lot more money, so they're greedy too!

 

Exactly. They all are.

[mvp 78]

But some of those Sea Dogs dream of playing in the majors and making a lot more money, so they're greedy too!

 

I can't even watch tweens play at this point. They are all just in it for the money and the post game snacks.

 

I pulled my kids out of baseball this year because it's just too commercial. If it's not played on a dirt lot, it's not true baseball.

[notin]

Like I said earlier poor, poor players they are not, and I’d enjoy the SeaDogs just as much as the RS.

 

Except that you don’t care about prospects…

[moonslav59]

With an average salary of 4+M the players are far from poor, poor players.

 

Context.

 

I’m talking about min salary and arb guys, mostly.

 

Plus the average salary has declined.

[Old Red]

Except that you don’t care about prospects…

 

Say the all the quote not just part of it. I don’t care about prospects until they produce something in a Red Sox uniform, but the Sea Dogs are baseball, and I watch the local colleges too.

[Old Red]

Context.

 

I’m talking about min salary and arb guys, mostly.

 

Plus the average salary has declined.

 

Gee maybe the players will have to get off season jobs like they used to if they can’t make ends meet.

[sk7326]

Like I said earlier poor, poor players they are not, and I’d enjoy the SeaDogs just as much as the RS.

 

The Seadogs make below minimum wage

[mvp 78]

The Seadogs make below minimum wage

 

Unless they are covered in soot and wearing sack cloth, they aren't poor!

 

They are playing a KIDS GAME and are lucky to be paid for it! If they don't like it they can go flip burgers at my local Culvers that hires at $15/hr!

[mvp 78]

Gee maybe the players will have to get off season jobs like they used to if they can’t make ends meet.

 

Yes! And if they get hurt digging graves, that's on them! They still need to keep in shape throughout the offseason and workout 10-20 hours a week too! It's what they chose to do! Why is that the fault of our beautiful owners?!?!

[Old Red]

Unless they are covered in soot and wearing sack cloth, they aren't poor!

 

They are playing a KIDS GAME and are lucky to be paid for it! If they don't like it they can go flip burgers at my local Culvers that hires at $15/hr!

 

Now that’s what I’m talking about.

[jad]

The Seadogs make below minimum wage

 

Don't bother Old Red with facts. He's on a roll.

[Old Red]

Don't bother Old Red with facts. He's on a roll.

 

Somebody has to instead of all the poor poor pro player talk. I’ve repeatedly said I’m not on either side, and I’m not, but both sides need each other. The players are the show, but they can’t put that show on without the owners. If they could it would be a different story.

[notin]

Say the all the quote not just part of it. I don’t care about prospects until they produce something in a Red Sox uniform, but the Sea Dogs are baseball, and I watch the local colleges too.

 

So what about prospects on the Sea Dogs?

[notin]

Somebody has to instead of all the poor poor pro player talk. I’ve repeatedly said I’m not on either side, and I’m not, but both sides need each other. The players are the show, but they can’t put that show on without the owners. If they could it would be a different story.

 

I’d be against both sides but the players have been the easier side to deal with in the negotiations…

[notin]

So apparently actual progress in the labor talks today. However to get in a full season, they need a deal by 5pm EST today.

 

Unfortunately for the owners, their new deadline is now after the automatic renewal for MLB.tv and numerous subscribers cancelled en masse yesterday…

[mvp 78]

So apparently actual progress in the labor talks today. However to get in a full season, they need a deal by 5pm EST today.

 

Unfortunately for the owners, their new deadline is now after the automatic renewal for MLB.tv and numerous subscribers cancelled en masse yesterday…

 

I'm thankful for everyone who posted the reminder to cancel.