The 2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[notin]

BT W I am not the one saying that. It’s not every pitcher either

 

I’m 100% being on board with keeping both Houck and Whitlock in the bullpen.

 

I can see the arguments. Starters are hopefully good for 150 IP, but also only impact maybe 28-32 games. As relievers, they are only good for maybe 70-80 IP, but also can impact 60-80 games…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I’m 100% being on board with keeping both Houck and Whitlock in the bullpen.

 

I can see the arguments. Starters are hopefully good for 150 IP, but also only impact maybe 28-32 games. As relievers, they are only good for maybe 70-80 IP, but also can impact 60-80 games…

 

Good point, and as Bell alluded to, ever-increasing multi-inning roles of relievers have increased their value, while also prompting a rule-adjustment need for assigning victories to pitchers.

 

I would also add, however, that workhorse starters (currently defined as "going five" or "two times through the order", whichever comes first) provide another asset that can't be overlooked or quantified: eating innings, which gives some of the almost-daily bullpen guys a day of R & R -- recovery and reset. Managers, coaches and players talk about it all the time; in that sense, a pitcher who starts 30 games can positively impact around 45 games... if half his starts "go long," and refreshed relievers are better the next game after a day off.

[notin]

Good point, and as Bell alluded to, ever-increasing multi-inning roles of relievers have increased their value, while also prompting a rule-adjustment need for assigning victories to pitchers.

 

I would also add, however, that workhorse starters (currently defined as "going five" or "two times through the order", whichever comes first) provide another asset that can't be overlooked or quantified: eating innings, which gives some of the almost-daily bullpen guys a day of R & R -- recovery and reset. Managers, coaches and players talk about it all the time; in that sense, a pitcher who starts 30 games can positively impact around 45 games... if half his starts "go long," and refreshed relievers are better the next game after a day off.

 

 

Absolutely true. Eating innings is essential. Of course, we really don’t know if Houck or Whitlock are capable of eating very many. They might be Diet Relievers…

[moonslav59]

I’m 100% being on board with keeping both Houck and Whitlock in the bullpen.

 

I can see the arguments. Starters are hopefully good for 150 IP, but also only impact maybe 28-32 games. As relievers, they are only good for maybe 70-80 IP, but also can impact 60-80 games…

 

Also, maybe Houck and Whitlock can each give us 90-125 IP, next year.

[moonslav59]

Best numbers 3rd time through.

 

.673 Perez

.780 Eovaldi

.819 Sale (26 PA)

.924 Richards

1.011 Pivetta

1.016 ERod

1.489 Houck (18 PA)

 

2020 (10+ PAs)

.571 Perez

1.200 Eovaldi

[Bellhorn04]

Also, maybe Houck and Whitlock can each give us 90-125 IP, next year.

 

Hypothetical question for you and notin: if you knew Whitlock could deliver 150 quality innings next year as a starter, would you still keep him in the bullpen?

[notin]

Hypothetical question for you and notin: if you knew Whitlock could deliver 150 quality innings next year as a starter, would you still keep him in the bullpen?

 

 

No. If I knew it based on something (history?) then I might use him as a starter because it’s usually easier to replace relievers than it is to replace starters.

 

But right now my opinion is Houck and Whitlock work will in the bullpen. It’s not broken. Why fix it? Getting new starters might put question marks on the rotation, but moving Houck and/or Whitlock there and replacing both creates more question marks.

[kenmeister]

I agree, and to some extent, starters are more known commodities.

 

We lost Ottavino, so I think keeping Houck & Whitlock in the pen makes a lot of sense.

 

Where did you read that we lost Ottavino? I keep track of https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/32644225/mlb-free-agency-tracker-latest-moves-grades-analysis and it's not there.

[moonslav59]

Hypothetical question for you and notin: if you knew Whitlock could deliver 150 quality innings next year as a starter, would you still keep him in the bullpen?

 

No.

 

I’m about 60-40 on Whitlock staying in the pen and 85-15 on Houck.

 

Of course, if we only add one meh sp’er then those numbers will move.

Edited November 26, 2021 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

Where did you read that we lost Ottavino? I keep track of https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/32644225/mlb-free-agency-tracker-latest-moves-grades-analysis and it's not there.

 

He’s a FA, so I count him as off the roster, unless we replace him with him. Lol!

[moonslav59]

No. If I knew it based on something (history?) then I might use him as a starter because it’s usually easier to replace relievers than it is to replace starters.

 

But right now my opinion is Houck and Whitlock work will in the bullpen. It’s not broken. Why fix it? Getting new starters might put question marks on the rotation, but moving Houck and/or Whitlock there and replacing both creates more question marks.

 

The way pens are changing, having two guys that can go 2-3 innings every 2-4 days gives us a huge advantage over many teams. Maybe both can give us many more innings, next year from the pen.

[dgalehouse]

We're seeing changes in how pitchers are used, though. Starters throwing fewer innings and relievers more. So that triple innings thing is going down.

 

Whitlock pitched 73.1 innings in 2021.

 

Top 3 starters by IP

 

Eovaldi 182.1 = 2.49 times as many

E-Rod 157.2 = 2.15

Pivetta 155.0 = 2.11

 

Starters pitch more innings, but relievers appear in , and effect the outcome of , many more games. And for late relievers , it is usually in close games. The trend seems to be bigger staffs , more rest days and quicker hooks for starters . And more reliance on the bullpen.

[notin]

No.

 

I’m about 60-40 on Whitlock staying in the pen and 85-15 on Houck.

 

Of course, if we only add one meh sp’er then those numbers will move.

 

Oh I am 100% behind keeping him in the bullpen. But it’s not going to happen…

[moonslav59]

Oh I am 100% behind keeping him in the bullpen. But it’s not going to happen…

 

If we traded for Montas, I’d be 100%.

 

As our roster is right now, we’d have to move one to the rotation to have any chance at a ring.

Edited November 26, 2021 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

Rangers to sign Semien to $175M/7. That's $25M x 7. They also signed Kole Calhoun.

 

Marlins sign Avisail Garcia to $53M/4. That's over $13M x 4.

 

Byron Buxton agrees to extension for $100M/7.

 

Kluber signs for $8M but can make over $4M in bonuses based on games started.

 

Am I supposed to bash Bloom for not paying more on any of these FAs?

 

Not!

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

Gausman reportedly expected to sign, soon with TOR or SFG.

 

Scherzer expected to announce who he chooses, soon.

 

Robbie Ray is on the top of the Angels' wish list.

 

[dgalehouse]

Some Sox fans are like the kid with his nose pressed up against the toy store window , looking in at all the toys that his folks can't afford to get him.

[moonslav59]

Some Sox fans are like the kid with his nose pressed up against the toy store window , looking in at all the toys that his folks can't afford to get him.

 

So true.

 

Others swear their parents can afford the shiny toys but are just too selfish to buy them.

[a700hitter]

Jon Gray to the Rangers

Gausman to Blue Jays

Kluber to Tampa

[Old Red]

Rangers to sign Semien to $175M/7. That's $25M x 7. They also signed Kole Calhoun.

 

Marlins sign Avisail Garcia to $53M/4. That's over $13M x 4.

 

Byron Buxton agrees to extension for $100M/7.

 

Kluber signs for $8M but can make over $4M in bonuses based on games started.

 

Am I supposed to bash Bloom for not paying more on any of these FAs?

 

Not!

 

 

 

 

$175M/7 is to long a contract for Semien taking him to 38, and Moon stop worrying about if you’d be bashing Bloom if you were to question anything.

[notin]

Rangers to sign Semien to $175M/7. That's $25M x 7. They also signed Kole Calhoun.

 

Marlins sign Avisail Garcia to $53M/4. That's over $13M x 4.

 

Byron Buxton agrees to extension for $100M/7.

 

Kluber signs for $8M but can make over $4M in bonuses based on games started.

 

Am I supposed to bash Bloom for not paying more on any of these FAs?

 

Not!

 

 

 

 

 

No.

 

What you’re supposed to say, and do so by repeating after me, is “Holy flounder farts!! I remember when off-seasons used to be this fast-paced!! But I thought I’d never see it happen again!!”

[moonslav59]

$175M/7 is to long a contract for Semien taking him to 38, and Moon stop worrying about if you’d be bashing Bloom if you were to question anything.

 

I'm far from worried about that.

 

It was meant as a joke meant to counter those who wrongly believe I never criticize Bloom.

[moonslav59]

Jon Gray to the Rangers

Gausman to Blue Jays

Kluber to Tampa

 

I was kind of hoping on Jon Gray over Wacha and us trading for Montas.

 

I'd have been happy with...

 

Montas

Gray

Iggy

 

$56M/4 was a bit rich for my liking on Gray, so I'm fine with passing, there.

[moonslav59]

No.

 

What you’re supposed to say, and do so by repeating after me, is “Holy flounder farts!! I remember when off-seasons used to be this fast-paced!! But I thought I’d never see it happen again!!”

 

This Dec 1 lock out date has caused a big stir!

[moonslav59]

A lot of big names coming off the board, quickly.

 

I doubt we were seriously in on any of these guys, and it looks more and more like we may need to trade to find a solid #2 SP'er or go with Whitlock in the 3 or 4 slot.

[mvp 78]

Rangers to sign Semien to $175M/7. That's $25M x 7. They also signed Kole Calhoun.

 

Marlins sign Avisail Garcia to $53M/4. That's over $13M x 4.

 

Byron Buxton agrees to extension for $100M/7.

 

Kluber signs for $8M but can make over $4M in bonuses based on games started.

 

Am I supposed to bash Bloom for not paying more on any of these FAs?

 

Not!

 

 

 

 

I think Semien could make that contract look really ugly. He wasn't a sure thing for the vast majority of his career.

 

I don't understand the Avisail deal at all.

 

Twins are paying for Buxton's MVP upside, but the downside is he'll sit on the bench for 7 years.

 

The Kluber signing is fine.

[mvp 78]

Some Sox fans are like the kid with his nose pressed up against the toy store window , looking in at all the toys that his folks can't afford to get him.

 

You don't need Gausman son, you have Gausman at home already.

[mvp 78]

No.

 

What you’re supposed to say, and do so by repeating after me, is “Holy flounder farts!! I remember when off-seasons used to be this fast-paced!! But I thought I’d never see it happen again!!”

 

I think most people didn't expect this many guys to sign before the CBA expired.

[mvp 78]

A lot of big names coming off the board, quickly.

 

I doubt we were seriously in on any of these guys, and it looks more and more like we may need to trade to find a solid #2 SP'er or go with Whitlock in the 3 or 4 slot.

 

There were lots of whispers that the Sox would be in on the SS market, but that hasn't happened. Wonder why that was floated out there at the start of the offseason.

[moonslav59]

There were lots of whispers that the Sox would be in on the SS market, but that hasn't happened. Wonder why that was floated out there at the start of the offseason.

 

Word is, we are still in on Baez.