The 2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[moonslav59]

No imagination....we'd get back close to the tax limit after 2022.

 

You also think Houck and Whitlock should be destined to bullpen while giving a $8M a pitcher a $10M raise because team wins when he starts. Everyone knows team wins and losses are not good barometer of pitcher's effectiveness. He's just a good luck charm.

 

If I recall, Porcello won with tons of run support when he pitched. Let's bring him back.

 

Payroll for 2018 and 2019 are facts. Do you have inside information on how much Bloom can spend? I'd say history is good indicator of future.

 

What the hell would you do with $100M?

 

Obviously you're willing to pay a mediocre starting pitcher $18M after that stellar season when for less than $1M, Whitlock can pretty much pitch to similar stats.

 

Honestly, I'm not sure what much of this means.

 

ERod is far from mediocre. He hasn't won because of exceptional run support. He actually won, this year, with the highest BAbip of any starter on the team.

 

As for the $100M, that's the fantasy part. If Bloom is given half of that much to spend, I'll be shocked.

 

As for "no imagination," I did a similar all out spending scenario, myself but called it something like "fantasy."

Edited November 7, 2021 by moonslav59

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Yahoo coverage of the Arizona Brawl League: https://www.yahoo.com/news/minor-league-prospects-brawl-arizona-011450776.html

 

Wonder if this will carry over on the day Winckowski pitches against Pittsburgh in the 2025 World Series... Is this an indictment of Josh Winckowski's mound control or self-control -- or a display of heavy mettle for future foxhole battles that someday matter? "No idea," said Dave Dombrowski, taken entirely out of context for this post.

[notin]

No imagination....we'd get back close to the tax limit after 2022.

 

You also think Houck and Whitlock should be destined to bullpen while giving a $8M a pitcher a $10M raise because team wins when he starts. Everyone knows team wins and losses are not good barometer of pitcher's effectiveness. He's just a good luck charm.

 

If I recall, Porcello won with tons of run support when he pitched. Let's bring him back.

 

Payroll for 2018 and 2019 are facts. Do you have inside information on how much Bloom can spend? I'd say history is good indicator of future.

 

What the hell would you do with $100M?

 

Obviously you're willing to pay a mediocre starting pitcher $18M after that stellar season when for less than $1M, Whitlock can pretty much pitch to similar stats.

 

 

If it was me, I’d embezzle the cash and purchase multiple plane tickets to tropical locations, leaving my true destination (Kiribati) a mystery.

 

Or did you want me to sign a shortstop?

[Bellhorn04]

No imagination....we'd get back close to the tax limit after 2022.

 

You also think Houck and Whitlock should be destined to bullpen while giving a $8M a pitcher a $10M raise because team wins when he starts. Everyone knows team wins and losses are not good barometer of pitcher's effectiveness. He's just a good luck charm.

 

If I recall, Porcello won with tons of run support when he pitched. Let's bring him back.

 

Payroll for 2018 and 2019 are facts. Do you have inside information on how much Bloom can spend? I'd say history is good indicator of future.

 

What the hell would you do with $100M?

 

Obviously you're willing to pay a mediocre starting pitcher $18M after that stellar season when for less than $1M, Whitlock can pretty much pitch to similar stats.

 

Nick, this sentence makes it sound like you have no clue how the MLB payroll system works. Not a good basis for discussion.

[moonslav59]

Nick, this sentence makes it sound like you have no clue how the MLB payroll system works. Not a good basis for discussion.

 

Come on, Bell! All bloom needs to do is find 12 more Whitlocks, this winter!

 

Then spend $100M on everyday players.

[Bellhorn04]

Come on, Bell! All bloom needs to do is find 12 more Whitlocks, this winter!

 

Then spend $100M on everyday players.

 

Yes, apparently those $1 million Whitlocks are easy pickings.

[moonslav59]

Yes, apparently those $1 million Whitlocks are easy pickings.

 

It's funny.

 

And, we didn't even know Whitlock would be Whitlock until a month or so into the season.

[moonslav59]

MLBTR headlines:

 

The Giants Are Set For One Of The Busiest (And Maybe Biggest-Spending) Offseasons Of Any Team

 

Astros Offer Carlos Correa Five-Year, $160MM Contract

 

[Tedballgame]

MLBTR headlines:

 

The Giants Are Set For One Of The Busiest (And Maybe Biggest-Spending) Offseasons Of Any Team

 

Astros Offer Carlos Correa Five-Year, $160MM Contract

 

 

Ascheats offering Correa 5/160 is like the Sox offering Lester 5/70. He gone!

[moonslav59]

Ascheats offering Correa 5/160 is like the Sox offering Lester 5/70. He gone!

 

The $32M/year sounds about right.

 

He'll get more than 5, but I do NOT think this is the slap in the face the Lester deal was.

 

Also, will they counter with another offer, if Correa's agent comes back with $240/7?

 

Lester's agent never responded.

[Nick]

Nick, this sentence makes it sound like you have no clue how the MLB payroll system works. Not a good basis for discussion.

 

"We can't develop starting pitchers"

 

We get lucky in Rule 5 draft. We get a kid with starting potential. We delay it for a year because he's coming off TJ. He has chance to start for year 2 payroll amount. $1M max. He will allow us NOT to sign a Richards type deal, thus saving us $10M. Get a reliever out of our improving farm system to replace him.

 

Why do we give a pitcher $18M one year deal (that's what we're doing), which equates to $10M more than his current pay AFTER the year he had?

 

IF HE REFUSES WE GET A COMPENSATION PICK. Is that your logic? You're willing to gamble $10M for the sake of compensation pick?

 

If E Rod is worth $18M and apparently both you and Moon do, then go for it. I don't think he's worth that much. Hell I'd take chance on Syndergaard before signing E Rod for $18M.

 

Acquisition of E Rod was one of the best deals we ever made. We gave up a rental in Miller and then had chance to sign him back but we didn't. I like E Rod. Just don't think he's worth $18M. I can have an opinion, no?

Edited November 7, 2021 by Nick

[moonslav59]

"We can't develop starting pitchers"

 

We get lucky in Rule 5 draft. We get a kid with starting potential. We delay it for a year because he's coming off TJ. He has chance to start for year 2 payroll amount. $1M max. He will allow us NOT to sign a Richards type deal, thus saving us $10M. Get a reliever out of our improving farm system to replace him.

 

Why do we give a pitcher $18M one year deal (that's what we're doing), which equates to $10M more than his current pay AFTER the year he had?

 

IF HE REFUSES WE GET A COMPENSATION PICK. Is that your logic? You're willing to gamble $10M for the sake of compensation pick?

 

If E Rod is worth $18M and apparently both you and Moon do, then go for it. I don't think he's worth that much. Hell I'd take chance on Syndergaard before signing E Rod for $18M.

 

Acquisition of E Rod was one of the best deals we ever made. We gave up a rental in Miller and then had chance to sign him back but we didn't. I like E Rod. Just don't think he's worth $18M. I can have an opinion, no?

 

Even if Whitlock becomes a starter, we still need ERod or someone better.

 

Not wanting ERod at $18.4M is not a crazy position, and you are not alone.

 

I think those of us who want him to take the QO see the enormous advantage of a less risky 1 year deal for a quality pitcher over what it will take to get someone similar in trade or signing someone like ERod to 4-5+ years.

Edited November 8, 2021 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

QO Players have until Nov 17 to accept of decline the $18.4M QO.

 

Correa

Story

Semien

Seager

 

ERod

R Ray

Verlander

Syndergaard

Iglesias

 

Castellanos

Conforto

Freeman

B Belt

C Taylor

 

I kinda liked the idea of maybe signing Verlander, but not if we lose a draft pick.

 

I doubt the Sox sign any of these guys, except maybe ERod.

 

[notin]

 

I kinda liked the idea of maybe signing Verlander, but not if we lose a draft pick.

 

 

 

Well, bringing Kate Upton to Fenway is nice.

 

But the big concern with Verlander is he turns 39 in February and has thrown all of 6 innings in the past two seasons.

 

He was rock solid at 37, but that doesn’t mean he’ll be the same pitcher at 39.

 

And also, if he turns down the QO, he is probably assuming he can beat the money and/or years.

 

If the Sox want an aging pitcher with injury concerns, Rich Hill would make a ton more sense.

 

Any chance Rich Hill can start dating Kate Upton?

Edited November 8, 2021 by notin

[Bellhorn04]

"We can't develop starting pitchers"

 

We get lucky in Rule 5 draft. We get a kid with starting potential. We delay it for a year because he's coming off TJ. He has chance to start for year 2 payroll amount. $1M max. He will allow us NOT to sign a Richards type deal, thus saving us $10M. Get a reliever out of our improving farm system to replace him.

 

Why do we give a pitcher $18M one year deal (that's what we're doing), which equates to $10M more than his current pay AFTER the year he had?

 

IF HE REFUSES WE GET A COMPENSATION PICK. Is that your logic? You're willing to gamble $10M for the sake of compensation pick?

 

If E Rod is worth $18M and apparently both you and Moon do, then go for it. I don't think he's worth that much. Hell I'd take chance on Syndergaard before signing E Rod for $18M.

 

Acquisition of E Rod was one of the best deals we ever made. We gave up a rental in Miller and then had chance to sign him back but we didn't. I like E Rod. Just don't think he's worth $18M. I can have an opinion, no?

 

You keep saying it would be crazy to pay E-Rod 18 million, and it's a 10 million raise, after a bad year et cetera.

 

People have tried to explain the logic behind it. That E-Rod's peripherals were better than his ERA. That comparable starters like Stroman are expected to get 90 million deals and so on. But you just keep beating the dead horse.

 

You asked earlier about whether we could spend the 18 mill better, and I said yes, that is the right question.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The thing to remember most about ERod after his career year is that in the first pre-Covid Spring Training of 2020, he looked great. We're talking All-Star dominance, mowing down hitters in mid-season form. There didn't seem to be any up-and-down inconsistent nibbling -- just progressive improvement. And then by summer, no one was worried about issuing walks, when he wasn't even allowed to go for a walk.

 

Can ERod -- still not 30 -- fully recover and regain that combined confidence and peak physical form? Why not.

[mvp 78]

QO Players have until Nov 17 to accept of decline the $18.4M QO.

 

Correa

Story

Semien

Seager

 

ERod

R Ray

Verlander

Syndergaard

Iglesias

 

Castellanos

Conforto

Freeman

B Belt

C Taylor

 

I kinda liked the idea of maybe signing Verlander, but not if we lose a draft pick.

 

I doubt the Sox sign any of these guys, except maybe ERod.

 

 

There's a lot of chatter about the Sox trying to sneak into the SS market. I don't really see it.

[mvp 78]

You asked earlier about whether we could spend the 18 mill better, and I said yes, that is the right question.

 

We "could" spend that 18M better, but that really depends on who is available in FA. What guys does Bloom think he can get on good value deals? We'll have to see. Maybe he can find another Renfroe or trade for another Pivetta.

[moonslav59]

Well, bringing Kate Upton to Fenway is nice.

 

But the big concern with Verlander is he turns 39 in February and has thrown all of 6 innings in the past two seasons.

 

He was rock solid at 37, but that doesn’t mean he’ll be the same pitcher at 39.

 

And also, if he turns down the QO, he is probably assuming he can beat the money and/or years.

 

If the Sox want an aging pitcher with injury concerns, Rich Hill would make a ton more sense.

 

Any chance Rich Hill can start dating Kate Upton?

 

I know the risk involved with signing old pitchers, but to me, these 5-8 year deals are riskier and more costly.

[moonslav59]

We "could" spend that 18M better, but that really depends on who is available in FA. What guys does Bloom think he can get on good value deals? We'll have to see. Maybe he can find another Renfroe or trade for another Pivetta.

 

The best part about these $18M deals is the fact that they are for just one year.

 

It's about the only way you can get (keep) quality players without going large and long.

[Bellhorn04]

The best part about these $18M deals is the fact that they are for just one year.

 

It's about the only way you can get (keep) quality players without going large and long.

 

Up until last year with Stroman and Gausman, players accepting QO's were pretty rare.

 

I don't think E-Rod will accept.

[mvp 78]

Up until last year with Stroman and Gausman, players accepting QO's were pretty rare.

 

I don't think E-Rod will accept.

 

Hard to say. In FA, he can get a guaranteed 4 year deal, but for less AAV.

[moonslav59]

Up until last year with Stroman and Gausman, players accepting QO's were pretty rare.

 

I don't think E-Rod will accept.

 

I think so, too. I was speaking to those who did not think we should have offered ERod the QO.

 

I'd try to get him to take ...

 

$16M x 4

or

$15M x 5

 

[mvp 78]

I think so, too. I was speaking to those who did not think we should have offered ERod the QO.

 

I'd try to get him to take ...

 

$16M x 4

or

$15M x 5

 

 

I don't get the argument about NOT offering the QO. More often than not, players will outright reject the QO. Even Stephen freakin' Drew rejected the QO. My guess is that ERod rejects it too. It allows the Sox to sign a QO guy without losing anything or get a free comp pick. It just makes too much sense to offer anyone halfway decent a QO. And ERod was a top 20 SP per fWAR last season.

[moonslav59]

I don't get the argument about NOT offering the QO. More often than not, players will outright reject the QO. Even Stephen freakin' Drew rejected the QO. My guess is that ERod rejects it too. It allows the Sox to sign a QO guy without losing anything or get a free comp pick. It just makes too much sense to offer anyone halfway decent a QO. And ERod was a top 20 SP per fWAR last season.

 

Agree 100%.

 

Those comp picks are pretty valuable, too.

 

I assume the up your signing bonus pool, too, right?

[mvp 78]

Agree 100%.

 

Those comp picks are pretty valuable, too.

 

I assume the up your signing bonus pool, too, right?

 

Yes, sir.

[moonslav59]

Yes, sir.

 

That could end up helping more than the extra pick.

[moonslav59]

How is this for a team that knows pitching?

 

BTV Values:

161 Burnes

113 Peralta

110 Woodruff

41 Williams

27 Hader

19 Houser

17 Ashby

 

(The Brewers)

[moonslav59]

MLBTR Predictions

 

$$/yrs Player (Team going to projections by 2 people)

320/10 Correa (DET, PHI, DET)

305/10 Seager (NYY x 3)

180/3 Freeman (ATL, ATL, BOS)

160/6 Bryant (MIA, MIA, NYM)

138/6 Gausman (SFG x 3)

138/6 Semien (BOS, LAD, LAA)

130/5 R Ray (TOR x 3)

126/6 Story (PHI, TEX, HOU)

120/3 Scherzer (LAD x 3)

115/3 Castellanos (TEX, SDP, SDP)

110/5 Stroman (LAA, MN, LAD)

100/5 J Baez (TEX, DET, TEX)

80/4 S Marte (NYM, SFG, PHI)

70/5 ERod (DET, DET, MN)

70/4 Schwarber (COL, TOR, WSH)

64/4 C Taylor (SEA, BOS, SEA) Is this a joke?

56/4 R Iglesias (LAD, HOU, TOR)

25/1 Rodon (HOU, BOS, LAA)

56/4 Jon Gray (DET, LAA, SFG)

55/5 Seiya Suzuki (PHI, TEX, TEX)

45/3 Rizzo (MIA, BOS, ATL)

42/3 DeSclafani (NYM, MIA, STL)

40/2 Verlander (SFG, SFG, ATL)

36/3 Av Garcia (KCR, KIA, COL)

36/3 Soler (MIL, COL, MIA)

30/3 Alex Wood (MIA, WSH, MN)

27/3 S Matz (BOS, LAA, WSH)

27/3 Graveman (HOU, KCR, LAD)

26/2 K Jansen (TOR, TOR, KCR)

24/2 M Canha (CLE x 3)

24/2 Kyle Seager (TOR, TOR, NYM)

20/1 Conforto (ATL, CWS, MIL)

20/1 Kershaw (TEX, TEX, PHI)

20/2 Kikuchi (Cubs x 3)

20/2 E Escobar (WSH, CWS, TOR)

18.4/1 QO B Belt (SFG)

18.4/1 QO Syndergaar (NYM)

18/2 Corey Knebel (BOS, PHI, MN)

16/2 Alex Cobb (KCR, BOS, OAK)

15/1 Greinke (WSH. STL, BOS)

15/2 Rosario (WSH, ATL, ATL)

15/2 Neris (PHI, LAA, TBR)

14/2 Villar (NYM, COL, CWS)

14/2 Melancon (PHI, STL, STL)

12/2 Tepera (LAA, KCR, PHI)

12/1 Kluber (ATL, MN, SFG)

12/1 N Cruz (SDP, SDP, MIL)

10/1 Duffy (LAA, LAD, KCR)

10/1 Gomes (NYY, NYY, COL)

6/1 Heaney (STL, WSH, PIT)

 

Others:

Tyler Anderson

Andrew Chafin

Johnny Cueto

Josh Harrison

Rich Hill

Daniel Hudson

Joe Kelly

Aaron Loup

Andrew McCutchen

Collin McHugh

Brad Miller

James Paxton

Joc Pederson

Tommy Pham

Michael Pineda

Brooks Raley

Tomoyuki Sugano

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

What are the best deals from the MLBTR list of projected contracts? (Not necessarily the best deals for the Sox)

 

I like Story & Baez

ERod

Graveman