A Realistic View at 2021: Part III

[moonslav59]

Was that the actual plan? I thin we all suspected it was something like that, but that doesn't mean that's what it was...

 

I thought the plan was some sort of platoon between Renfroe, Verdugo and Cordero in the corners and Kike in CF with Arroyo at 2B.

[notin]

Agreed.

 

He planned on mawrin not sucking so bad at the plate, and did not replace him with a defensive utility player.

 

Duran, Santana & Schwarber are worse than the starters on D.

 

But no matter who you get to play 1B, the biggest defensive hole on the team is at SS. And it's not a position the team can really mess around with mid-season.

 

The Sox could drag Keith Hernandez and his, what 534 Gold Gloves, out of retirement and put him at 1B, and it wasn't going to help Bogaerts go get a grounder in the hole...

[notin]

I thought the plan was some sort of platoon between Renfroe, Verdugo and Cordero in the corners and Kike in CF with Arroyo at 2B.

 

 

And at one point I thought it as supposed to be Benintendi/Renfroe in LF, Verdugo in RF and someone else in CF. Not even sure who it was supposed to be. Bradley? Pillar? Conversations with Bradley did go deep into the offseason.

 

My point is there was a lot of supposition on whatever alignment Bloom envisioned, or if his goal was just to accrue people who played anywhere and let Cora figure it out...

[moonslav59]

But no matter who you get to play 1B, the biggest defensive hole on the team is at SS. And it's not a position the team can really mess around with mid-season.

 

The Sox could drag Keith Hernandez and his, what 534 Gold Gloves, out of retirement and put him at 1B, and it wasn't going to help Bogaerts go get a grounder in the hole...

 

I think Bloom's hands were tied at SS, C and 3B. It also looked like Dalbec was going to get a long look at 1B.

 

As fans, we did not see what was coming in the OF and 2B. Many felt Kike was signed for 2B and an emergency OF'er.

 

Many felt Verdugo would play CF or RF- Maybe Renfroe-Cordero platoon in LF or all 3 playing everyday, and Duran joining mid season. (Marwin in the OF, too.)

 

Renfroe in RF surprised me.

[mvp 78]

I thought the plan was some sort of platoon between Renfroe, Verdugo and Cordero in the corners and Kike in CF with Arroyo at 2B.

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/enrique-hernandez-red-sox-contract

 

Hernández, who won a World Series with the Dodgers in 2020, will help fill the void the Red Sox have at second base. The Red Sox told Hernández that he will get the bulk of his reps at second base, but he could also see time in center field -- where Boston appears likely to lose Jackie Bradley Jr. in free agency -- and in the corner outfield spots while also spelling Xander Bogaerts here and there at shortstop.

 

This was reported extensively at the time.

[mvp 78]

I think Bloom's hands were tied at SS, C and 3B. It also looked like Dalbec was going to get a long look at 1B.

 

As fans, we did not see what was coming in the OF and 2B. Many felt Kike was signed for 2B and an emergency OF'er.

 

Many felt Verdugo would play CF or RF- Maybe Renfroe-Cordero platoon in LF or all 3 playing everyday, and Duran joining mid season. (Marwin in the OF, too.)

 

Renfroe in RF surprised me.

 

With all of Renfroe's errors, he's not worth the arm. Overrated.

[mvp 78]

@SoxNotes

Last 5 games for the Red Sox’ bullpen:

 

4.1 IP, 0 ER

7.0 IP, 1 ER

3.1 IP, 1 ER

2.0 IP, 0 ER

4.0 IP, 0 ER

 

Totals: 0.87 ERA, 20.2 IP, 2 ER

 

Wow, seems ok.

[moonslav59]

With all of Renfroe's errors, he's not worth the arm. Overrated.

 

Agreed.

 

What I meant by surprised was, before ST'ing started, I thought he'd play LF with Verdugo in RF and Kike in CF.

 

His arm surprised me, too, but his overall D sucks.

[moonslav59]

https://www.mlb.com/news/enrique-hernandez-red-sox-contract

 

Hernández, who won a World Series with the Dodgers in 2020, will help fill the void the Red Sox have at second base. The Red Sox told Hernández that he will get the bulk of his reps at second base, but he could also see time in center field -- where Boston appears likely to lose Jackie Bradley Jr. in free agency -- and in the corner outfield spots while also spelling Xander Bogaerts here and there at shortstop.

 

This was reported extensively at the time.

 

I remember well. I disagreed, then, and they figured it out, later.

[Nick]

Agreed.

 

What I meant by surprised was, before ST'ing started, I thought he'd play LF with Verdugo in RF and Kike in CF.

 

His arm surprised me, too, but his overall D sucks.

 

He is very lackadaisical with his glove on simple fly balls....that was my takeaway early on. Then he started to throw guys out left and right....he's no Evans.

[notin]

With all of Renfroe's errors, he's not worth the arm. Overrated.

 

Maybe the Sox could flip Verdugo and Refroe?

 

Renfroe is all arm but not much range. Verdugo has a lesser arm, but still very strong, and much better range...

[Maxbialystock]

A question. Why are the Sox currently tied with the Jays and Yankees--both teams predicted to do well this season--for the 2 wild card slots on September 15?

 

This thread is currently dominated by complaints about the defense, which in fact just might be the worst Sox defense ever. If defense is so all-fired important, why aren't the Sox mired down there with the Orioles?

 

Relatedly, if Bogey is such a disaster at SS, why did the Sox dump Iglesias (to get Jake Peavy) in 2013 (when the Sox won the WS), install Bogey at SS in 2014, and then have their best season ever in 2018 with Bogey at SS and Devers at 3b? Oh, and why does Bogey, the presumed disaster at SS, currently have the highest WAR on the Sox?

[moonslav59]

He is very lackadaisical with his glove on simple fly balls....that was my takeaway early on. Then he started to throw guys out left and right....he's no Evans.

 

He lacks range, too. Little speed, slow breaks, but it seems like he usually takes the right route, but yes, dropping easy fly outs is not good.

 

What's the Sox record for errors by a RF'er?

 

Here are his fangraph ratings in RF:

 

0 DRS (thanks to his arm)

 

-1.2 UZR/150

 

+2.1 ARM

-1.0 RngR

-1.7 ErrR

 

Career

+13 DRS

 

-0.5 UZR/150

+7.3 ARM

-1.6 RngR

-6.1 ErrR

 

He only has 41 innings in CF

 

Career, he's a plus in LF: (954 innings)

-1 DRS

1.1 UZR/150

 

 

 

 

He must be close.

 

[moonslav59]

A question. Why are the Sox currently tied with the Jays and Yankees--both teams predicted to do well this season--for the 2 wild card slots on September 15?

 

This thread is currently dominated by complaints about the defense, which in fact just might be the worst Sox defense ever. If defense is so all-fired important, why aren't the Sox mired down there with the Orioles?

 

Relatedly, if Bogey is such a disaster at SS, why did the Sox dump Iglesias (to get Jake Peavy) in 2013 (when the Sox won the WS), install Bogey at SS in 2014, and then have their best season ever in 2018 with Bogey at SS and Devers at 3b? Oh, and why does Bogey, the presumed disaster at SS, currently have the highest WAR on the Sox?

 

We'd be tied with the Rays with just average D, IMO.

[moonslav59]

Maybe the Sox could flip Verdugo and Refroe?

 

Renfroe is all arm but not much range. Verdugo has a lesser arm, but still very strong, and much better range...

 

I thought of that. Apparently, they value Renfroe's arm.

 

Verdugo's career RF numbers: (627 innings)

 

-0.3 UZR/150 (better than Renfroe's)

+1.3 ARM

0.0 RngR

-1.3 ErrR

+3 DRS

 

[mvp 78]

A question. Why are the Sox currently tied with the Jays and Yankees--both teams predicted to do well this season--for the 2 wild card slots on September 15?

 

This thread is currently dominated by complaints about the defense, which in fact just might be the worst Sox defense ever. If defense is so all-fired important, why aren't the Sox mired down there with the Orioles?

Relatedly, if Bogey is such a disaster at SS, why did the Sox dump Iglesias (to get Jake Peavy) in 2013 (when the Sox won the WS), install Bogey at SS in 2014, and then have their best season ever in 2018 with Bogey at SS and Devers at 3b? Oh, and why does Bogey, the presumed disaster at SS, currently have the highest WAR on the Sox?

 

If the Sox had better defense, the team wouldn't be tied with NY and TOR, they'd be firmly in the pole position for the first WC spot at least.

[Bellhorn04]

We'd be tied with the Rays with just average D, IMO.

 

A statement like that could use a little elaboration.

[Bellhorn04]

Relatedly, if Bogey is such a disaster at SS, why did the Sox dump Iglesias (to get Jake Peavy) in 2013 (when the Sox won the WS), install Bogey at SS in 2014, and then have their best season ever in 2018 with Bogey at SS and Devers at 3b? Oh, and why does Bogey, the presumed disaster at SS, currently have the highest WAR on the Sox?

 

And FanGraphs shows Bogaerts at +6.5 RAR (Runs Above Replacement) on defense. One of our few on the plus side.

[moonslav59]

A statement like that could use a little elaboration.

 

It's simple: with average D, we'd probably have about 9 more wins and be tied with the Rays.

 

I'm sure they have lost some games due to defense, but they have won some, too- many more than us.

 

DRS has the Rays at +56, and the Sox at -6. That's a 62 run swing on defense. UZR: TBR 7.7/ BOS -0.6

 

Maybe we'd be 1-2 games behind- maybe with some luck or plus D, we'd be division leaders.

[notin]

A question. Why are the Sox currently tied with the Jays and Yankees--both teams predicted to do well this season--for the 2 wild card slots on September 15?

 

This thread is currently dominated by complaints about the defense, which in fact just might be the worst Sox defense ever. If defense is so all-fired important, why aren't the Sox mired down there with the Orioles?

 

Relatedly, if Bogey is such a disaster at SS, why did the Sox dump Iglesias (to get Jake Peavy) in 2013 (when the Sox won the WS), install Bogey at SS in 2014, and then have their best season ever in 2018 with Bogey at SS and Devers at 3b? Oh, and why does Bogey, the presumed disaster at SS, currently have the highest WAR on the Sox?

 

So are you arguing defense is not important because they’re winning?

 

With good defense, maybe this team wouldn’t be battling for a WC spot and would instead be trying to distance themselves from Tampa atop the division…

[moonslav59]

And FanGraphs shows Bogaerts at +6.5 RAR (Runs Above Replacement) on defense. One of our few on the plus side.

 

They also show -6 DRS and -56 career DRS.

 

His +1.9 UZR/150 is second best of his career. His career UZR/150 is +0.3.

[moonslav59]

If the Sox had better defense, the team wouldn't be tied with NY and TOR, they'd be firmly in the pole position for the first WC spot at least.

 

It seems like at least half our losses since the start of August could be blamed on the defense as a major factor.

 

We were not plus before that, either.

[Bellhorn04]

Of course, we have players who are pluses on offense and minuses on defense, like Devers, and you can't really separate the two. You can only have one DH.

[moonslav59]

Of course, we have players who are pluses on offense and minuses on defense, like Devers, and you can't really separate the two. You can only have one DH.

 

Better at DH:

JD

Schwarber

 

Probably better at DH:

Renfroe

Dalbec

 

Maybe:

Devers

Bogey

 

[Maxbialystock]

If the Sox had better defense, the team wouldn't be tied with NY and TOR, they'd be firmly in the pole position for the first WC spot at least.

 

Actually, you're wrong because the defense has been the same all season long, including when the Sox led the AL in wins back in July. What went downhill was the rotation, which finally forced Cora to send Richards and Perez to the bullpen, which has also struggled. Indeed, so has the hitting. Let's not forget that in the 2d half the Sox have been hit hard by COVID, which has had it's biggest effect on pitching and hitting, not defense.

 

Indeed, right now with Iglesias at 2b so that Verdugo can play LF, Kike CF, and Renfroe RF, the defense is possibly better than earlier in the season. Even Dalbec has shown signs of mastering 1b--but, sadly, not Schwarber.

[moonslav59]

SOX HR Leaders

 

34 Devers

27 Renfroe

26 JD

22 Dalbec

21 Bogey

17 Kike

13 Verdugo

 

Total Bases (PAs)

282 (597) Devers

269 (576) JD

242 (538) Bogey

230 (512) Renfroe

216 (559) Verdugo

201 (515) Kike

186 (411) Dalbec

 

TB/PA

.472 Devers

.467 JD

.453 Dalbec

.450 Bogey

.449 Renfroe

.390 Kike

.386 Verdugo

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It seems like at least half our losses since the start of August could be blamed on the defense as a major factor.

 

We were not plus before that, either.

 

And as you and others have alluded to, the cause-and-effect of bad D can't be totally quantified when it comes to extra outs, excessive pitches and arm stress on the mound staff. Look how much harder Eovaldi had to work to limit the damage in his final inning last night.

[moonslav59]

GIDP

 

18 JD

12 Vaz

10 Verdugo

10 Devers

8 Bogey

6 Renfroe

5 Marwin

4 Plawecki

3 Kike

3 Dalbec

[moonslav59]

And as you and others have alluded to, the cause-and-effect of bad D can't be totally quantified when it comes to extra outs, excessive pitches and arm stress on the mound staff. Look how much harder Eovaldi had to work to limit the damage in his final inning last night.

 

Yes.

 

People complain about our starters not going long enough, but several times, they could have gone an extra inning or more, had they not needed to get 4-5 outs some innings.

 

The pen has had to be used more often, too.

 

It affects the team more than just counting unearned or runs scored by poor D.

[notin]

GIDP

 

18 JD

12 Vaz

10 Verdugo

10 Devers

8 Bogey

6 Renfroe

5 Marwin

4 Plawecki

3 Kike

3 Dalbec

 

He might be helped by batting ninth and not coming up with a runner on first and less than 2 out as often as a lot of other hitters…