A Realistic View at 2021: Part III

[moonslav59]

During the John Henry era, the most successful in Sox history, the FO has gone out of its way to acquire hitters over fielders.

 

I won't deny we have gone after many big hitters, but what makes the henry era different from the others, IMO was placing higher priority on pitching and to some extent defense.

 

Although Pedro was acquired before Henry, it wasn't until we added great #2 and deeper rotations and pend did we start seeing rings.

 

Trades and FAs

Schilling

Lowe

Beckett

Wakefield

Dice-K

Lackey

ERod

Porcello

Price

Sale

Eovaldi

 

To a lesser extent:

Wells, Clement, Burkett, Doubront, Peavy, Miley, Wright, Kelly, Pomeranz, Pivetta,

 

Foulke

Kimbrel

Timlin

Embree

Koji

Okajima

Tazawa

 

If you look at our top pitchers by WAR since 2003, only these pitchers were homegrown:

 

1. Lester

5. Buchholz

7. Papelbon

18. Barnes

31. Bard

 

We did seem to focus on drafting hitters that could also play D more often than before:

Betts

Pedey

JBJ

Iggy

Youk

Reddick

Nixon

 

The best UZR/150 players we traded/acquired for were:

A Beltre

JD Drew

Crisp

R Sweeney

S Leon

D Mirabelli

C Kotchman

D Meintkewicz

Victorino

P Reese

Alex Gonzalez

A Cora

B Holt

S Drew

 

I would agree that defense has not been a really high priority under Henry, but I do think higher than pre-Henry.

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by moonslav59

[mvp 78]

I'd say Red Sox fans have a lot more patience with good hitters/bad fielders than with good fielders/bad hitters. Maybe it's the same with all fans.

 

Agreed. That's why he was called "Coco Crap." He was much better than Sox fans gave him credit for.

[Maxbialystock]

Orlando Cabrera and Doug Mientkiewicz might not agree…

 

Great gets--no question about it--on Aug 1, 2004 when the Sox dumped Nomar whose defense and ability to just stay in the lineup were severely hampered by his achilles injury. The Sox had plenty of good bats that year and could not afford a weak-fielding, nonavailable SS.

 

Nomar went downhill after he left Boston. Before 2004 he had seasonal WAR's of 6.6, 7.1, 6.6, 7.4, 6.8, and 6.1. Afterward, his highest was 2.5. Another complication in 2004 was that Nomar was in the last year of his contract and was pissed that in the previous offseason the Sox made a big plays for ARod, who ended up going to the Yankees.

 

Funny thing about the redoubtable Cabrera is that he was gone after the 2004 season ended. Ditto Mientkiewicz.

[moonslav59]

These 8 home games might decide the whole ballgame.

 

Although our last 6 games look "easy," they are on the road and we don't want to have to count on other teams losing.

[moonslav59]

Salvador Perez tied the catcher HR record with 45.

 

The Royals are tied with the A's 2-2 in the 3rd.

 

Yanks play at 5 pm, today.

[mvp 78]

Great gets--no question about it--on Aug 1, 2004 when the Sox dumped Nomar whose defense and ability to just stay in the lineup were severely hampered by his achilles injury. The Sox had plenty of good bats that year and could not afford a weak-fielding, nonavailable SS.

 

Nomar went downhill after he left Boston. Before 2004 he had seasonal WAR's of 6.6, 7.1, 6.6, 7.4, 6.8, and 6.1. Afterward, his highest was 2.5. Another complication in 2004 was that Nomar was in the last year of his contract and was pissed that in the previous offseason the Sox made a big plays for ARod, who ended up going to the Yankees.

 

Funny thing about the redoubtable Cabrera is that he was gone after the 2004 season ended. Ditto Mientkiewicz.

 

That team already had Pokey Reese though. I don't think OCab was traded for his glove.

[mvp 78]

Salvador Perez tied the catcher HR record with 45.

 

The Royals are tied with the A's 2-2 in the 3rd.

 

Yanks play at 5 pm, today.

 

With all of his DH games, it should not count.

[mvp 78]

Perez:

C - 114 G, 30 HR

DH - 32 G, 14 HR (prorates to 71 HR over a full season as DH)

[Bellhorn04]

These 8 home games might decide the whole ballgame.

 

Although our last 6 games look "easy," they are on the road and we don't want to have to count on other teams losing.

 

Very few games are easy.

[notin]

I'd say Red Sox fans have a lot more patience with good hitters/bad fielders than with good fielders/bad hitters. Maybe it's the same with all fans.

 

Probably.

 

Baseball revolves around stats and for non-pitchers, stats revolve around offense…

[Maxbialystock]

I won't deny we have gone after many big hitters, but what makes the henry era different from the others, IMO was placing higher priority on pitching and to some extent defense.

 

Although Pedro was acquired before Henry, it wasn't until we added great #2 and deeper rotations and pend did we start seeing rings.

 

Trades and FAs

Schilling

Lowe

Beckett

Wakefield

Dice-K

Lackey

ERod

Porcello

Price

Sale

Eovaldi

 

To a lesser extent:

Wells, Clement, Burkett, Doubront, Peavy, Miley, Wright, Kelly, Pomeranz, Pivetta,

 

Foulke

Kimbrel

Timlin

Embree

Koji

Okajima

Tazawa

 

If you look at our top pitchers by WAR since 2003, only these pitchers were homegrown:

 

1. Lester

5. Buchholz

7. Papelbon

18. Barnes

31. Bard

 

We did seem to focus on drafting hitters that could also play D more often than before:

Betts

Pedey

JBJ

Iggy

Youk

Reddick

Nixon

 

The best UZR/150 players we traded/acquired for were:

A Beltre

JD Drew

Crisp

R Sweeney

S Leon

D Mirabelli

C Kotchman

D Meintkewicz

Victorino

P Reese

Alex Gonzalez

A Cora

B Holt

S Drew

 

I would agree that defense has not been a really high priority under Henry, but I do think higher than pre-Henry.

 

 

 

You know, I'd really appreciate it if you would stop confusing me with facts.

 

You are probably right about the pitching. As for the fielding, my memory is that the pre-Henry Sox did have some pretty darn good outfielders and infielders, but I can't be sure they had them every season or even most seasons.

 

As for this season, I would argue that it demonstrates that good hitting and decent pitching are way more important than average or even good defense.

 

That said, however, I think the Rays have shown you can have all three--hitting, pitching, and defense--on the same team in the same year. What they have never been able to do down Tampa way is figure out how to get some actual fans. If this is their year to finally win the WS, it could be embarrassing.

[Bellhorn04]

Perez:

C - 114 G, 30 HR

DH - 32 G, 14 HR (prorates to 71 HR over a full season as DH)

 

Unfortunately, power surges like this at his age make me suspicious now.

[moonslav59]

That team already had Pokey Reese though. I don't think OCab was traded for his glove.

 

I do, plus they were fed up with Nomar.

 

When we made that trade, I said to my brothers-in-law, "OCab is going to win us a ring!"

 

They said, "Who's he?"

[Bellhorn04]

Probably.

 

Baseball revolves around stats and for non-pitchers, stats revolve around offense…

 

Even WAR skews pretty strongly toward offense. As with Jeter and Bogey.

[mvp 78]

Unfortunately, power surges like this at his age make me suspicious now.

 

Everyone has a little Brady Anderson in them.

[moonslav59]

You know, I'd really appreciate it if you would stop confusing me with facts.

 

You are probably right about the pitching. As for the fielding, my memory is that the pre-Henry Sox did have some pretty darn good outfielders and infielders, but I can't be sure they had them every season or even most seasons.

 

As for this season, I would argue that it demonstrates that good hitting and decent pitching are way more important than average or even good defense.

 

That said, however, I think the Rays have shown you can have all three--hitting, pitching, and defense--on the same team in the same year. What they have never been able to do down Tampa way is figure out how to get some actual fans. If this is their year to finally win the WS, it could be embarrassing.

 

I don't remember very many meaningful defensive pick-ups for players expected to be FT'ers back in "those days."

 

I do remember guys like...

 

Manny

Offerman

Canseco

C Everett

Tommy Harper

Lansford

Tony Armas

 

The "D guys?"

Darren Lewis

Darren Bragg

 

FT?

Reese

D Buford

A Cora

Alex Gonzalez

Spike Owen

[moonslav59]

The Adam for Carl Everett trade kinda tells it all.

[Maxbialystock]

I don't remember very many meaningful defensive pick-ups for players expected to be FT'ers back in "those days."

 

I do remember guys like...

 

Manny

Offerman

Canseco

C Everett

Tommy Harper

Lansford

Tony Armas

 

The "D guys?"

Darren Lewis

Darren Bragg

 

FT?

Reese

D Buford

A Cora

Alex Gonzalez

Spike Owen

 

I'm talking about 1940-70.

[notin]

Everyone has a little Brady Anderson in them.

 

Or a little Stan Islozol…

[mvp 78]

@redsoxstats

Red Sox starters have a combined .328 BABIP this season. That is the 3rd highest by a MLB starting rotation in the 2000s. Defense unbelievably bad at turning balls in play into outs.

 

Eovaldi .320, Rodriguez .358, Pivetta .283, Richards .335, Perez .338, Houck .341, Sales .379

Worst BABIP:

2020 PHI

2020 BOS

2007 TBD - 66 W

2012 COL - 64 W

2021 BOS

2007 FL - 71 W

2017 DET - 64 W

2016 ARI - 69 W

2017 NYM - 70 W

2016 MIN - 59 W

 

2021 Sox are the only ones with a winning record in the top 15.

 

No need to upgrade the defense. This is a recipe for future success!!!!!!!!!!!!

[notin]

Agreed. That's why he was called "Coco Crap." He was much better than Sox fans gave him credit for.

 

Nick Punto was one of the best defensive infielders in the past 20 years. But he was not loved by anyone except Ron Gardenhire and maybe Mrs. Punto. And even she complained he needed to get to second base more often…

[mvp 78]

Or a little Stan Islozol…

 

Need a spell check on that one.

[mvp 78]

Nick Punto was one of the best defensive infielders in the past 20 years. He was not loved by anyone except Ron Gardenhire and maybe Mrs. Punto. And even she complained he needed to get to second base more often…

 

And Nick would quip back, "well I never see you at third."

[notin]

Need a spell check on that one.

 

I think you caught my drift…

[notin]

And Nick would quip back, "well I never see you at third."

 

Plus sometimes he wanted to get to second, but there was already another man there.

 

Yes, I went there..

[moonslav59]

I'm talking about 1940-70.

 

LOL!

 

You crack me up!

[moonslav59]

Nick Punto was one of the best defensive infielders in the past 20 years. But he was not loved by anyone except Ron Gardenhire and maybe Mrs. Punto. And even she complained he needed to get to second base more often…

 

I remember that Nick Punto trade like it was yesterday!

[moonslav59]

I'm talking about 1940-70.

 

Those late 60's early 70's teams had some great defenders and a few great O & D players like Yaz, Lynn, Evans, Fisk, Petrocelli, G Scott, Smith, Miller, Burleson

 

but also...

 

Luis Aparicio

Rick Miller

Doug Griffin

Mike Andrews

[Bellhorn04]

Means pitched last night for the Birds, so we'll miss him in the upcoming series.

[notin]

Means pitched last night for the Birds, so we'll miss him in the upcoming series.

 

The scheduled Orioles’ starters are Akin, Lowther, and Wells…