trade deadline

[a700hitter]

Journeymen do have good stretches during their careers. They need to to stay in the bigs. Thank goodness Robles is having possibly the best stretch in his career at this moment. But he is not a good pitcher. At the beginning of his time in Boston when he was balking and causing problems with other teams, the WEEI game announcers declared that he had no place on the roster. Robles has temporarily proved them wrong too. This guy can turn into a complete pumpkin at a moments notice. I’d rather ride an inning longer with a starter and have Houck or Whitlock go 2 innings to cut Robles out of the BP rotation. That’s my opinion.

[Old Red]

Probably unfairly so.

 

He just played his age 22 season in AAA after a year off preceded by minimal time in AA. I think he deserves some slack...

 

I’m not the one rating him, and just said that he won’t be as highly rated after this year. That’s how it works. If you do good your stock goes up, and if you do bad your stock will go down.

[notin]

I’m not the one rating him, and just said that he won’t be as highly rated after this year. That’s how it works. If you do good your stock goes up, and if you do bad your stock will go down.

 

Unless they actually trade him, all that matters is what he turns in to as a player. Since his past season probably makes him less desirable, he probably is not going to be traded anywhere. So he will be back in 2022 and we can see if he does adjust after being bumped up 2 levels after missing a season...

[moonslav59]

Houck had just been pushed to the pen in AAA at the end of 2019. Dalbec had a 779 OPS in AAA at the end of 2019.

 

Neither of those players were performing in a manner that would garner outsized interest from anyone outside the organization.

 

He gets credit on keeping Devers instead of Moncada/Kopech.

 

DD traded a lot of guys with similar MOs as Dalbec and Houck- not just highly sought after prospects.

 

He deserves credit for holding onto the 3 guys that turned out better than just about everyone he traded, except maybe Moncada and Kopech.

[moonslav59]

Journeymen do have good stretches during their careers. They need to to stay in the bigs. Thank goodness Robles is having possibly the best stretch in his career at this moment. But he is not a good pitcher. At the beginning of his time in Boston when he was balking and causing problems with other teams, the WEEI game announcers declared that he had no place on the roster. Robles has temporarily proved them wrong too. This guy can turn into a complete pumpkin at a moments notice. I’d rather ride an inning longer with a starter and have Houck or Whitlock go 2 innings to cut Robles out of the BP rotation. That’s my opinion.

 

Robles can throw very hard, so those type of RP'er are often picked up, in hopes they can control it for a couple months.

 

Robles has had more than just a couple nice streaks in his career. He's also had some horrific stretches, but let's not short change the hot streaks:

 

It wasn't long ago, either...

 

2018: 2.97/1.297 with LAA in 36 IP to end the season after getting traded.

2019: 2.48/1.018 with LAA in 73 IP! That's no short stretch!

 

He only pitched 16 innings in 2020, so I'm not sure how much weight you can give that season.

 

With MN, this year, he started out badly. He then had this run:

 

1.75 ERA/.676 OPS Against in 26 IP from April 22 to June 21

 

From June 22 to Aug 6th (including 3 games with the Sox):

11.66/1.157 in 15 IP

 

Aug 7 to end of season:

2.08/.575 in 22 IP

 

So, since the end of 2018, he's had

1/2 good season

Full good season

bad shortened 2020 season

bad start to 2021

good middle to 2021

bad stretch around the trade

Great ending to 2020

 

Kinda like most decent RP'er in MLB. The IP in 2018 and 2019 far outweigh the bas stretches in 2020 and 2021. Add the good stretches of 2021, and he's been good many more IP than bad.

 

Not all that surprising he had a nice stretch- just as it would not have been surprising had he sucked and been DFA'd by us.

 

[Hugh2]

Probably unfairly so.

 

He just played his age 22 season in AAA after a year off preceded by minimal time in AA. I think he deserves some slack...

 

This, 100x over. No doubt his stock has taken a hit but most people saying that it has probably over estimate how much it has gone down. His stock has probably only fallen a little for the reason you outlined.

 

Extreme example, but if the Sox promoted Nick Yorke to Boston and he hit .100 this year does that mean he’s a prospect with no future or that he was rushed?

 

Downs should have started the year in AA and the Sox left him to sink all year in AAA. Not his fault. Professional teams, with professional talent evaluators know this and look beyond box scores.

[Hugh2]

Robles can throw very hard, so those type of RP'er are often picked up, in hopes they can control it for a couple months.

 

Robles has had more than just a couple nice streaks in his career. He's also had some horrific stretches, but let's not short change the hot streaks:

 

It wasn't long ago, either...

 

2018: 2.97/1.297 with LAA in 36 IP to end the season after getting traded.

2019: 2.48/1.018 with LAA in 73 IP! That's no short stretch!

 

He only pitched 16 innings in 2020, so I'm not sure how much weight you can give that season.

 

With MN, this year, he started out badly. He then had this run:

 

1.75 ERA/.676 OPS Against in 26 IP from April 22 to June 21

 

From June 22 to Aug 6th (including 3 games with the Sox):

11.66/1.157 in 15 IP

 

Aug 7 to end of season:

2.08/.575 in 22 IP

 

So, since the end of 2018, he's had

1/2 good season

Full good season

bad shortened 2020 season

bad start to 2021

good middle to 2021

bad stretch around the trade

Great ending to 2020

 

Kinda like most decent RP'er in MLB. The IP in 2018 and 2019 far outweigh the bas stretches in 2020 and 2021. Add the good stretches of 2021, and he's been good many more IP than bad.

 

Not all that surprising he had a nice stretch- just as it would not have been surprising had he sucked and been DFA'd by us.

 

 

The only thing that matters is what he’s done down the stretch and into the playoffs. I could care less how much he stinks at other times completely irrelevant. Blooms job was to find help this year, and he did, much cheaper than his opposition who he beat. This alone, should end the argument. Full stop.

[moonslav59]

The only thing that matters is what he’s done down the stretch and into the playoffs. I could care less how much he stinks at other times completely irrelevant. Blooms job was to find help this year, and he did, much cheaper than his opposition who he beat. This alone, should end the argument. Full stop.

 

I feel the same, but I’m tired of people acting like Bloom just got lucky, because this guy was a bum.

[oldtimer]

I feel the same, but I’m tired of people acting like Bloom just got lucky, because this guy was a bum.

 

Robles throws hard and has movement which makes him viable, provided he can deal with his command issues.

[moonslav59]

Robles throws hard and has movement which makes him viable, provided he can deal with his command issues.

 

I hope we can bring Robles back.

[Kimmi]

Bloom was also bashed for not picking up pen help and then crucified when Robles and Davis struggled early on.

 

His post deadline additions of Iggy & Shaw were also masterful.

 

Yup.

 

Bloom was criticized for not improving the team at the deadline, while Tampa Bay, NY, and Toronto all supposedly made significant improvements.

 

And yet, which team is left standing?

[moonslav59]

Yup.

 

Bloom was criticized for not improving the team at the deadline, while Tampa Bay, NY, and Toronto all supposedly made significant improvements.

 

And yet, which team is left standing?

 

Bloom is not about glitzy headlines that placate the casual fans.

 

There were reasons, beyond finances and wanting to save the farm as much as possible, for not getting Rizzo, Kimbrel and other headline names.

 

There were reasons for taking a chance on Schwarber, Robles, Davis, Iggy and Shaw.

 

The guy basically went 5 for 5 in the clutch, and in this case, this might be a repeatable skill.

 

(I thought you'd like that, Kimmi.)

[Kimmi]

I'm darned if I can see any plate discipline by the Sox, but agree Schwarber has been a great asset.

 

For one, the team walks improved significantly after Schwarber became active.

[mvp 78]

Yup.

 

Bloom was criticized for not improving the team at the deadline, while Tampa Bay, NY, and Toronto all supposedly made significant improvements.

 

And yet, which team is left standing?

 

The bullpen could look a little better. They have been shaky at times even in these playoffs.

[Kimmi]

How about a tip of the cap to Dombrowski for the Eovaldi for Beeks trade . Would things have been different if the Rays still had Eovaldi , and the Sox still had Beeks? That is not a question.

 

Dombrowski, the man who 'knows how to win championships'. Are the Phillies in the playoffs?

[mvp 78]

Dombrowski, the man who 'knows how to win championships'. Are the Phillies in the playoffs?

 

Were the Sox in the playoffs in Bloom's first year?

 

The Phillies are in a way worse position than the Sox have been in over 20 years.

[Kimmi]

I feel the same, but I’m tired of people acting like Bloom just got lucky, because this guy was a bum.

 

The Rays have a knack for finding good pitchers. Bloom was a part of that organization for many years. I think there's more to it than just luck.

[Kimmi]

Bloom is not about glitzy headlines that placate the casual fans.

 

There were reasons, beyond finances and wanting to save the farm as much as possible, for not getting Rizzo, Kimbrel and other headline names.

 

There were reasons for taking a chance on Schwarber, Robles, Davis, Iggy and Shaw.

 

The guy basically went 5 for 5 in the clutch, and in this case, this might be a repeatable skill.

 

(I thought you'd like that, Kimmi.)

 

Ha. Well played.

 

People who are hoping for Dombrowski type moves are likely going to be disappointed with Bloom's moves, though I do think he'll make those big moves when they make sense. They just won't be the norm. Bloom is the man. I thought he was the man before this season started. His team building philosophy gels with mine.

[Kimmi]

The bullpen could look a little better. They have been shaky at times even in these playoffs.

 

Regardless, the Sox are still in it while the other teams aren't.

[Kimmi]

Were the Sox in the playoffs in Bloom's first year?

 

The Phillies are in a way worse position than the Sox have been in over 20 years.

 

Thanks Dave!

[Bellhorn04]

I like what both of them have done for the franchise, Dave and Bloom that is.

 

But maybe the real genius is Henry? You can't draw it up any better than replacing Dave with Bloom at that point in time.

[moonslav59]

Ha. Well played.

 

People who are hoping for Dombrowski type moves are likely going to be disappointed with Bloom's moves, though I do think he'll make those big moves when they make sense. They just won't be the norm. Bloom is the man. I thought he was the man before this season started. His team building philosophy gels with mine.

 

I've been saying I think we will go large, this winter or next, but maybe it will not be like the Price deal. I see a few other scenarios:

 

1) A deal like Scherzer, Greinke or Verlander for large and short.

2) Two $15-20M deals for 3-5 years.

3) Four $10M deals- hopefully better than the Richards' deal.

4) Some sort of mix and match.

 

I can't see him continually signing 10 guys to between $3 and $10M, every year. For one, we don't have enough roster slots for him to do that even one more year (this winter). With a bigger budget, he's almost forced to step out of his previous philosophy.

 

One can look at his 3 biggest deals, last winter, he swung and missed twice (Richards & Perez). He hit big with Kike. If you count Ottavino's trade as a big deal, he was 1 for 4.

 

Out of his next biggest deals, he went 1 for 3, again. Renfroe- hit, Andriese- miss, Marwin

 

The next 2? Sawamura- OK and Santana- miss.

 

One could argue, he shouldn't focus on FA signings, but I guess the Beni trade is not viewed as a winner, yet.

 

Getting Pivetta, last summer, Whitlock with Rule 5, Schwarber and others mid season and the Kike-Renfroe signings were big keys, but there were a lot of misses alog the way, too.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I've been saying I think we will go large, this winter or next, but maybe it will not be like the Price deal. I see a few other scenarios:

 

1) A deal like Scherzer, Greinke or Verlander for large and short.

2) Two $15-20M deals for 3-5 years.

3) Four $10M deals- hopefully better than the Richards' deal.

4) Some sort of mix and match.

 

I can't see him continually signing 10 guys to between $3 and $10M, every year. For one, we don't have enough roster slots for him to do that even one more year (this winter). With a bigger budget, he's almost forced to step out of his previous philosophy.

 

One can look at his 3 biggest deals, last winter, he swung and missed twice (Richards & Perez). He hit big with Kike. If you count Ottavino's trade as a big deal, he was 1 for 4.

 

Out of his next biggest deals, he went 1 for 3, again. Renfroe- hit, Andriese- miss, Marwin

 

The next 2? Sawamura- OK and Santana- miss.

 

One could argue, he shouldn't focus on FA signings, but I guess the Beni trade is not viewed as a winner, yet.

 

Getting Pivetta, last summer, Whitlock with Rule 5, Schwarber and others mid season and the Kike-Renfroe signings were big keys, but there were a lot of misses alog the way, too.

 

But not a lot of "big" misses, and that's why I just don't see Bloom ever putting the franchise in the position to miss big on free agent acquisitions. I'm not referring to extensions for homegrown players, which I believe are important when considering the fanbase. But I seriously doubt the Red Sox will offer a Cole or David Price contract... or even an Anthony Rendon-type (an All-Star, but not necessarily elite player).

 

Dombrowski gets a lot of heat for the Price and Sale deals, but those weren't really out of line for top free agent starting pitchers and big market clubs at the time. The Sox have certainly got their money's worth on JD, whose agent wanted twice as much as he eventually signed for (late, just before Spring Training '18).

[moonslav59]

But not a lot of "big" misses, and that's why I just don't see Bloom ever putting the franchise in the position to miss big on free agent acquisitions. I'm not referring to extensions for homegrown players, which I believe are important when considering the fanbase. But I seriously doubt the Red Sox will offer a Cole or David Price contract... or even an Anthony Rendon-type (an All-Star, but not necessarily elite player).

 

Dombrowski gets a lot of heat for the Price and Sale deals, but those weren't really out of line for top free agent starting pitchers and big market clubs at the time. The Sox have certainly got their money's worth on JD, whose agent wanted twice as much as he eventually signed for (late, just before Spring Training '18).

 

I don't see a Price type deal, this winter, because nobody jumps out like Price did, but someday, I think we might do one.

 

We may see Devers and or Bogey get the large and long deal.

 

I do think we go higher than the $10M for Richards deal, this winter.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't see a Price type deal, this winter, because nobody jumps out like Price did, but someday, I think we might do one.

 

But nobody actually wants another deal like Price's ended up, do they?

[Bellhorn04]

Sometimes the most important move the head of ops makes is the manager he hires.

 

Theo hired Francona.

Ben hired (or traded for LOL) Farrell.

Dave hired Cora.

Bloom re-hired Cora.

 

Hiring Cora may be one of Dave's biggest contributions to the success of the franchise and should not be taken lightly. And it was a very aggressive, very fast hire. Dave wanted Cora badly and made sure it happened.

 

Meanwhile, Cashman dithered around and ending up hiring Boone.

 

So yeah, I think Dave did OK, all things considered...

 

And full marks to Bloom for seeing that Cora was still the right guy for the job even after all the mess.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Sometimes the most important move the head of ops makes is the manager he hires.

 

Theo hired Francona.

Ben hired (or traded for LOL) Farrell.

Dave hired Cora.

Bloom re-hired Cora.

 

Hiring Cora may be one of Dave's biggest contributions to the success of the franchise and should not be taken lightly. And it was a very aggressive, very fast hire. Dave wanted Cora badly and made sure it happened.

 

Meanwhile, Cashman dithered around and ending up hiring Boone.

 

So yeah, I think Dave did OK, all things considered...

 

And full marks to Bloom for seeing that Cora was still the right guy for the job even after all the mess.

 

All great points, especially how decisive Dombro was to lock up Cora before other clubs, like the Yankees, did.

 

It seemed similar to how fast Lou Gorman hired Butch Hobson to replace Joe Morgan back in the 1990s -- remember Lou noting they had to promote Butch, because other teams were asking about him. And then Hobson completely flopped as big league manager... or at least his teams did.

 

One of the differences in the Cora re-hire, at least, is that all the star Red Sox players were clamoring for his return -- and all parties involved have responded accordingly.

[mvp 78]

Sometimes the most important move the head of ops makes is the manager he hires.

 

Theo hired Francona.

Ben hired (or traded for LOL) Farrell.

Dave hired Cora.

Bloom re-hired Cora.

 

Hiring Cora may be one of Dave's biggest contributions to the success of the franchise and should not be taken lightly. And it was a very aggressive, very fast hire. Dave wanted Cora badly and made sure it happened.

 

Meanwhile, Cashman dithered around and ending up hiring Boone.

 

So yeah, I think Dave did OK, all things considered...

 

And full marks to Bloom for seeing that Cora was still the right guy for the job even after all the mess.

 

Overall, DD did a very good job. If the owner's didn't tighten up the purse strings, he'd be seen in a more favorable light.

[Bellhorn04]

Overall, DD did a very good job. If the owner's didn't tighten up the purse strings, he'd be seen in a more favorable light.

 

Yeah, it was a fun narrative for some folks to say he left us with nothing but scorched earth.

[Nick]

Yeah, it was a fun narrative for some folks to say he left us with nothing but scorched earth.

 

Best thing about our quick turnaround is we did not mortgage our future to do it, both financially and players wise. I think we'll begin to see some of that young talent matriculate to big league club.