A Realistic View at 2021: Part I

[mvp 78]

@alexspeier

Cora says Kiké Hernández and Marwin González have taken it upon themselves to discuss/tutor Devers on defense.

[jad]

Beni was one of the 3 you most liked watching?

 

(Not being critical- just wondering why.)

 

I don't know. Why do you like players? Who knows. Why do like particular musicians? Why do you like friends? Lovers? Ketchup? I think of those two fantastic catches a couple of years back. The antics in the outfield. Loved the hair. Love Federer, Isner, Ferrer (when he was still playing) and Monfils, hate Dkokovic, Serena, ... This is related to athletic ability only insofar as they are all professionals.

 

If we don't look at athletes as humans, but only as a set of talents and statistics, why wouldn't we just play video games?

[Bellhorn04]

If we don't look at athletes as humans, but only as a set of talents and statistics, why wouldn't we just play video games?

 

We've pretty much reached the stage of cheering for the laundry.

 

Seriously though, if Verdugo, Renfroe and Cordero have good seasons, and JBJ/Beni have mediocre ones, few Red Sox fans will lament those changes.

 

I'm leaving out Mookie, he's a whole other story.

[notin]

I don't know. Why do you like players? Who knows. Why do like particular musicians? Why do you like friends? Lovers? Ketchup? I think of those two fantastic catches a couple of years back. The antics in the outfield. Loved the hair. Love Federer, Isner, Ferrer (when he was still playing) and Monfils, hate Dkokovic, Serena, ... This is related to athletic ability only insofar as they are all professionals.

 

If we don't look at athletes as humans, but only as a set of talents and statistics, why wouldn't we just play video games?

 

Liking players and liking teams can be two separate things.

 

Did you enjoy or not the 2013 Red Sox and all their roster turnover?

[moonslav59]

I don't know. Why do you like players? Who knows. Why do like particular musicians? Why do you like friends? Lovers? Ketchup? I think of those two fantastic catches a couple of years back. The antics in the outfield. Loved the hair. Love Federer, Isner, Ferrer (when he was still playing) and Monfils, hate Dkokovic, Serena, ... This is related to athletic ability only insofar as they are all professionals.

 

If we don't look at athletes as humans, but only as a set of talents and statistics, why wouldn't we just play video games?

 

My favorite player was JBJ, and he certainly wasn't the best player, but I love great defense, especially up the middle. (I used to play 2B then CF and pitcher later in softball.) I think I know why I like some players, and I guess I was wrong for assuming most people know why they like one player and not another.

 

I really was not trying to be critical.

 

I do think that it kinda sucks when your favorite player leaves, but letting Beni and JBJ go had plenty of merit.

[dgalehouse]

We've pretty much reached the stage of cheering for the laundry.

 

Seriously though, if Verdugo, Renfroe and Cordero have good seasons, and JBJ/Beni have mediocre ones, few Red Sox fans will lament those changes.

 

I'm leaving out Mookie, he's a whole other story.

Not a good idea to spend too much on a player jersey these days. I do think a little more continuity would be a good thing. Too much constant turnover of the roster is a turnoff for many fans.

[mvp 78]

Not a good idea to spend too much on a player jersey these days. I do think a little more continuity would be a good thing. Too much constant turnover of the roster is a turnoff for many fans.

 

Always get a jersey for a player that has already retired.

[Bellhorn04]

Not a good idea to spend too much on a player jersey these days. I do think a little more continuity would be a good thing. Too much constant turnover of the roster is a turnoff for many fans.

 

I find that the turnover bothers fans less when it results in more wins, and more when it results in less wins.

[Bellhorn04]

Always get a jersey for a player that has already retired.

 

Now here's sound financial advice from an accountant, folks.

[mvp 78]

Now here's sound financial advice from an accountant, folks.

 

You'll look cooler wearing a Dwight Evans jersey than a Kiké one anyway.

[notin]

Always get a jersey for a player that has already retired.

 

What about a player who just isn't good enough for any other team to want?

 

I got me a Josh Rutledge jersey that way. Not only is it cheaper, but for like $25 more, it comes with Josh Rutledge. (I saved the $25)...

[mvp 78]

What about a player who just isn't good enough for any other team to want?

 

I got me a Josh Rutledge jersey that way. Not only is it cheaper, but for like $25 more, it comes with Josh Rutledge. (I saved the $25)...

 

They were selling a bunch of game used jerseys at the Christmas at Fenway gimmick a few years ago. I was definitely tempted by a Coco Crisp.

[notin]

They were selling a bunch of game used jerseys at the Christmas at Fenway gimmick a few years ago. I was definitely tempted by a Coco Crisp.

 

Coco played for a long time after leaving Boston...

[moonslav59]

We got Coco largely by trading Andy Marte (and others) for him.

 

We got Marte for Renteria and a bunch of cash.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

We got Coco largely by trading Andy Marte (and others) for him.

 

We got Marte for Renteria and a bunch of cash.

 

Coco was an acquisition that seemed at the time a great move: Gold Glove caliber outfielder just about to enter to his prime, good wheels, improving power numbers... great name -- a Mookie before Mookie. But Crisp plateaued in Boston, a good ballplayer who never became a star (and another reminder of how rare Betts is and was).

[moonslav59]

Coco was an acquisition that seemed at the time a great move: Gold Glove caliber outfielder just about to enter to his prime, good wheels, improving power numbers... great name -- a Mookie before Mookie. But Crisp plateaued in Boston, a good ballplayer who never became a star (and another reminder of how rare Betts is and was).

 

Yes, he had just come off an .810 season at age 25 with the Guardians and had hit .790 the year before, so it was not a fluke.

 

The .720 OPS with the Sox was a bit disappointing, but he was great on D as a CF'er.

 

He did end up having a .779 season with the A's in 2013 with a career high 22 HRs, but he ended up with a .718 OPS with them before retiring as an Indian in after 2016.

[notin]

Coco was an acquisition that seemed at the time a great move: Gold Glove caliber outfielder just about to enter to his prime, good wheels, improving power numbers... great name -- a Mookie before Mookie. But Crisp plateaued in Boston, a good ballplayer who never became a star (and another reminder of how rare Betts is and was).

 

Funny thing was, before coming to Boston, Coco carried a questionable defensive reputation. The Guardians bounced him back and forth between LF and CF even before Sizemore came up. Crisp played amazing defese in CF, but did not hit much in Boston (OPS+ 84 in 3 seasons.). His best eyars at the plate came much later in Oakland (2012-2014 with an OPS+ 108). Although Crisp had a very key single in elimination game 5 of the 2008 ALCS to tie a game in which the Sox trailed 7-0 just two innings earlier. And as Daniel Tosh used to say "and for that, we thank you"...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Funny thing was, before coming to Boston, Coco carried a questionable defensive reputation. The Guardians bounced him back and forth between LF and CF even before Sizemore came up. Crisp played amazing defese in CF, but did not hit much in Boston (OPS+ 84 in 3 seasons.). His best eyars at the plate came much later in Oakland (2012-2014 with an OPS+ 108). Although Crisp had a very key single in elimination game 5 of the 2008 ALCS to tie a game in which the Sox trailed 7-0 just two innings earlier. And as Daniel Tosh used to say "and for that, we thank you"...

 

I remember him for a great running catch to end the '07 ALCS and clinch the pennant in Fenway. Sox were way ahead, but that was a tough catch -- sprinting about 13 strides into the triangle, grabbing the ball over his head and banging into the wall. He could've spared the bruises and held the guy to a double... but good outfielders can't help themselves.

[moonslav59]

I remember him for a great running catch to end the '07 ALCS and clinch the pennant in Fenway. Sox were way ahead, but that was a tough catch -- sprinting about 13 strides into the triangle, grabbing the ball over his head and banging into the wall. He could've spared the bruises and held the guy to a double... but good outfielders can't help themselves.

 

They sorta benched Ellsbury early in the playoffs to play Coco, despite a strong start to his career after his call-up.

 

Ells did play more in the WS and did very well in 18 PAs (1.188).

[a700hitter]

We got Coco largely by trading Andy Marte (and others) for him.

 

We got Marte for Renteria and a bunch of cash.

People were turning cartwheels over getting Marte and then they were wringing their hands when he got flipped for Coco Crisp.

[moonslav59]

People were turning cartwheels over getting Marte and then they were wringing their hands when he got flipped for Coco Crisp.

 

Marte ended up being a bust, while Coco filled a big need for us, despite the drop in offense.

[notin]

They sorta benched Ellsbury early in the playoffs to play Coco, despite a strong start to his career after his call-up.

 

Ells did play more in the WS and did very well in 18 PAs (1.188).

 

The Sox benched a struggling Coco in the 2007 playoff run and went with Ellsbury. And in 2008 they benched a struggling Ellsbury to play Coco...

[notin]

People were turning cartwheels over getting Marte and then they were wringing their hands when he got flipped for Coco Crisp.

 

Marte was a very surprising acquisition for Renteria. I think half of the excitement was over dumping Renteria...

[mvp 78]

It's nice to get some Coco Crisp talk again.

[Nick]

Which would you prefer?

 

Team A 8 playoff appearances in 11 years, 0 WS title

Team B 4 playoff appearances in 11 years, 2 WS titles

 

Yankees have become the Atlanta Braves of 90's.

[kenmeister]

I still can't believe Mussina, after winning 20 games, retired and missed the Yankees last WS win by 1 year.

[Bellhorn04]

I still can't believe Mussina, after winning 20 games, retired and missed the Yankees last WS win by 1 year.

 

Same thing happened with Mattingly, right?

[mvp 78]

@IanMBrowne

Xander Bogaerts, "I will be completely ready" for Opening Day. I'm ready right now."

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The Sox benched a struggling Coco in the 2007 playoff run and went with Ellsbury. And in 2008 they benched a struggling Ellsbury to play Coco...

 

Ellsbury came in with one elite skill and something that can't be taught: blazing speed (his biggest weakness was the other asset that can't be developed, legally: weak arm). To his credit, he became an above-average player and the top base-stealer in Red Sox history.

 

And yet, it was awhile before the Sox trusted Ells in center; Epstein even brought in 37-year-old Mike Cameron to play center one year and move Jacoby to left (that would be like re-acquiring S.Drew to play short and moving X back to third).

 

I see some parallels to Duran, who can fly, is developing power, and apparently needs a lot of work on his centerfielding. But I think someone here already said we should all be very happy if he approaches an Ellsbury comp...

[Bellhorn04]

And yet, it was awhile before the Sox trusted Ells in center; Epstein even brought in 37-year-old Mike Cameron to play center one year and move Jacoby to left

 

That signing was an ouch. 2 years for $15.5 million, 81 games played and a minus WAR.