2018 Red Sox cheating scandal

[Kimmi]

I am a god damned genius. You already know that though.

 

Genius. Indeed.

[mvp 78]

Puh-leeze.

 

Goal posts.

[Kimmi]

!!!

 

Haha. Nice call! I should go look up one of my old posts in this thread.

[notin]

It's a little irrational, but I think he should have been banned for life. I've seen way to many people cheat their way to the top in my life

 

There was evidence that the Codebreaker program had started in 2016 before Cora was hired. Now, Luhnow is another matter...

[Kimmi]

I didn't say we don't deserve the title, I just said Cora deserves more of a punishment. Those things aren't mutually exclusive

 

Supposedly, Cora wasn't even as guilty as they said he was while in Houston.

[Bellhorn04]

Supposedly, Cora wasn't even as guilty as they said he was while in Houston.

 

He was exonerated for 2018, actually.

[Kimmi]

MLB's findings are so weak. Watkins vehemently denied doing any in game sign stealing. A few players said they suspected or had indications that the revised signals came from in game video. That is not even good circumstantial evidence! Wouldn't even rise to the level of probable cause in court and that is a low standard of evidentiary proof. Losing a 2020 second round pick is too much. They basically got punished for the 2017 Apple watch incident and because fans and players were upset by Houston's light punishment.

 

Pete Abraham

 

@PeteAbe

·

The report reads like MLB had to come up with something after 100+ days so they pinned a misdemeanor on Watkins.

 

Pete Abraham

 

@PeteAbe

·

Naive not to think that happens with other teams.

 

Spot on PA, spot on.

[Kimmi]

Still punished. Still illegal. 2018*

 

Weak Jacko. Very weak.

[notin]

He was exonerated for 2018, actually.

 

Just the replay room guy. No biggie...

[Kimmi]

He was exonerated for 2018, actually.

 

?? I'm talking about 2017, when he was with the Astros.

[Kimmi]

Just the replay room guy. No biggie...

 

Glad they finally released their findings and we can put all that nonsense behind us.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

All of that, for basically nothing. I'd bet that most other MLB teams are guiltier than the Sox were.

 

Raise your hand if you think Watkins was the only one in MLB analytics departments to look closely at video during games (in any year since monitors were installed in video replay rooms in 2014). Manfred didn't raise his, either.

 

MLB's report basically said it was ok that a Sox' replay operator supplied decoded signs from video to players before games. But apparently he was so diligent that once in awhile he noticed during games that opponents had changed their signs... and, well, on “some occasions" he used his scrutiny skills "to revise sign sequence information that he had permissibly provided to players prior to the game”.

 

The lesson? No more revisions! First drafts for everyone, pass/fail.

 

Alex Cora -- who got more rancor this winter than our Covid thread from some on this forum -- will be back managing in Boston. I said it a few days after Shaugnessey, Tomase and Pete A., among others, were calling for his head. Bloom may not like it, but Bloom's bosses love AC.

[Bellhorn04]

?? I'm talking about 2017, when he was with the Astros.

 

Sorry, I misread what you were saying.

[Kimmi]

Raise your hand if you think Watkins was the only one in MLB analytics departments to look closely at video during games (in any year since monitors were installed in video replay rooms in 2014). Manfred didn't raise his, either.

 

MLB's report basically said it was ok that a Sox' replay operator supplied decoded signs from video to players before games. But apparently he was so diligent that once in awhile he noticed during games that opponents had changed their signs... and, well, on “some occasions" he used his scrutiny skills "to revise sign sequence information that he had permissibly provided to players prior to the game”.

 

The lesson? No more revisions! First drafts for everyone, pass/fail.

 

Alex Cora -- who got more rancor this winter than our Covid thread from some on this forum -- will be back managing in Boston. I said it a few days after Shaugnessey, Tomase and Pete A., among others, were calling for his head. Bloom may not like it, but Bloom's bosses love AC.

 

You and I have been on the same page in terms of other teams involvement with sign stealing. The Yankees with Beltran are probably near the top of the list.

 

I'm not sure Bloom would be opposed to having Cora back. The players love him.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I was going to revise my post, but didn't want to break the rules, in-thread.

 

But the report said some players interviewed "suspected or had indications that Watkins may have revised" some video-decoded signs that were ok to decode by video before games during games. Of course, he denies everything.

 

See how concrete and egregious such transgressions can be in a unique sport originated in strategies based on the term "stealing"? Glad to see that not one poster has used the c-word today.

 

Hey, at least we got baseball news to blab about instead of politics!

[Bellhorn04]

It's nice to have some good news for a change. And this definitely qualifies as good news.

[Bellhorn04]

Just the replay room guy. No biggie...

 

Nobody cares about that poor schmuck, of course. I imagine the Red Sox will look after him, even if it's off the books.

[a700hitter]

It's a little irrational, but I think he should have been banned for life. I've seen way to many people cheat their way to the top in my life

I wouldn't argue with you on that.

[a700hitter]

It's 100% why Roenicke is interim.

And on cue, the Red Sox announce this:

 

Red Sox To Remove “Interim” Tag From Ron Roenicke’s TitleBy Steve Adams | April 22, 2020 at 4:16pm CDT

The Red Sox will soon announce that they’re removing the “interim” tag from interim manager Ron Roenicke’s title, ESPN’s Buster Olney tweets. He’ll serve as the “permanent” manager for the 2020 season, assuming one is played.

It’s an expected move and one that’s largely a formality. At the time Roenicke was named Alex Cora’s replacement, multiple reports indicated that the organization would remove the “interim” qualifier if and when the league’s investigation cleared Roenicke of any wrongdoing in the 2018 sign-stealing allegations that had been brought for against the club. Today’s announcement from commissioner Rob Manfred, which punished only one current Red Sox employee, will now bring about that anticipated title modification.

[Related: MLB Announces Findings, Discipline Stemming From Red Sox Investigation]

Of course, Roenicke is still signed for only the 2020 season, and his future beyond that is unclear. He’d previously served as Cora’s bench coach, so if the organization opts to bring in a new skipper, it’s possible Roenicke could return to that role or move on altogether. Notably, there appears to be nothing (outside of what would figure to be enormously negative public relations pushback) standing in the way of the Red Sox simply re-hiring Cora for the 2021 season. His league-imposed ban only runs through the 2020 playoffs and Manfred made sure to emphasize that the punishment stemmed only from his wrongdoings while serving as the Astros’ bench coach in 2017 — not for anything he did with Boston.

[Kimmi]

It's nice to have some good news for a change. And this definitely qualifies as good news.

 

100%.

[Thunder]

I wouldn't argue with you on that.

 

It's just a personal thing for me. I'm tired of the frat boy types cheating the system and doing as well as me or better in school. I work my ass off for the grades I get. I reported two co-workers for cheating on a final in the fall, but there wasn't enough evidence to do anything about it. Sometimes the lack of discipline is worse than the actual act itself. That's my rationale behind this.

[Kimmi]

I wouldn't argue with you on that.

 

Cora's role in the Astro's cheating scandal was limited. He received a much harsher penalty than many of those more heavily involved, namely the players. A one year suspension is ample.

[a700hitter]

Cora's role in the Astro's cheating scandal was limited. He received a much harsher penalty than many of those more heavily involved, namely the players. A one year suspension is ample.

I wouldn't argue with that either, but I can understand that others would be more upset by what he did.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Cora's role in the Astro's cheating scandal was limited. He received a much harsher penalty than many of those more heavily involved, namely the players. A one year suspension is ample.

 

The Astros' players threw Cora and Beltran under the bus because both were no longer working for Houston. The Astros' analytics department created a culture of illegal systems before Cora or Beltran worked for Houston, but the pair and entire club implemented and benefitted from Codebreaker.

 

Nobody in the Houston organization was innocent, but Cora and Beltran were definitely the main fall guys --- which was obvious with the MLB report conveniently calling them masterminds (of banging trash cans). Some readers immediately believed the report because it was official.

 

There are no reports that Cora or Beltran or Hinch or the players didn't break the rules voluntarily, but how feasible is it that any new employee refuses to utilize stratagems distributed to him by his superiors, and still keeps his job?

Edited April 22, 2020 by 5GoldGloves:OF,75

[Swiharts Ghost]

The Astros' players threw Cora and Beltran under the bus because both were no longer working for Houston. The Astros' analytics department created a culture of illegal systems before Cora or Beltran worked for Houston, but the pair and entire club implemented and benefitted from Codebreaker.

 

Nobody in the Houston organization was innocent, but Cora and Beltran were definitely the main fall guys --- which was obvious with the MLB report conveniently calling them masterminds (of banging trash cans). Some readers immediately believed the report because it was official.

 

There are no reports that Cora or Beltran or Hinch or the players didn't break the rules voluntarily, but how feasible is it that any new employee refuses to utilize stratagems distributed to him by his superiors, and still keeps his job?

 

Ron should just step aside for the rightful a Leader of this team .

[Tedballgame]

It's just a personal thing for me. I'm tired of the frat boy types cheating the system and doing as well as me or better in school. I work my ass off for the grades I get. I reported two co-workers for cheating on a final in the fall, but there wasn't enough evidence to do anything about it. Sometimes the lack of discipline is worse than the actual act itself. That's my rationale behind this.

 

Cora got an appropriate punishment and deserves another chance to manage in 2021. Hopefully, with the Red Sox!

[jacksonianmarch]

Weak Jacko. Very weak.

 

Hadn’t been able to respond due to other craziness, but it’s great to talk baseball again, even if it’s a cheating scandal. Sounds mild, but it’ll always be tainted. Outside of complete vindication, it’ll be tainted. Steroids taints the player. Cheating with pitch sequence relay taints the team. It’s the way it is

[mvp 78]

Hadn’t been able to respond due to other craziness, but it’s great to talk baseball again, even if it’s a cheating scandal. Sounds mild, but it’ll always be tainted. Outside of complete vindication, it’ll be tainted. Steroids taints the player. Cheating with pitch sequence relay taints the team. It’s the way it is

 

So dumb...

[Bellhorn04]

So dumb...

 

And after so many hilariously wrong posts by him on this thread.

[mvp 78]

And after so many hilariously wrong posts by him on this thread.

 

All of his posts now get asterisks. Sorry, that’s the rule.