2018 Red Sox cheating scandal

[mvp 78]

Hi Max!

 

I know that technology is out there and prevalent, I just feel like the less technology used in game the better. Stop dehumanizing everything.

 

Stats are more dehumanizing than robot umps or ear pieces.

[Bellhorn04]

Stats are more dehumanizing than robot umps or ear pieces.

 

I assume you're referring to "advanced metrics".

[mvp 78]

I assume you're referring to "advanced metrics".

 

All stats.

[Bellhorn04]

All stats.

 

So excitement about Babe Ruth's 60 home runs and Roger Maris's 61 home runs was dehumanizing?

[Thunder]

I'm personally not a fan of stats either. Can't we just watch baseball for the fun of it? Why do we have to make everything harder?

 

For example, I didn't play fantasy football this past year, and I enjoyed watching the game so much more. No rooting interests, other than my favorite teams/players

[Bellhorn04]

I'm personally not a fan of stats either. Can't we just watch baseball for the fun of it? Why do we have to make everything harder?

 

For example, I didn't play fantasy football this past year, and I enjoyed watching the game so much more. No rooting interests, other than my favorite teams/players

 

That's one of the reasons I steer clear of fantasy stuff.

[Thunder]

That's one of the reasons I steer clear of fantasy stuff.

 

But, you could argue that without stats, we wouldn't have favorite teams/players. So, I'll say that I don't like advanced stats. Sabermetrics in baseball, but I'm not sure what to call the equivalent for other sports.

[S5Dewey]

But, you could argue that without stats, we wouldn't have favorite teams/players. So, I'll say that I don't like advanced stats. Sabermetrics in baseball, but I'm not sure what to call the equivalent for other sports.

 

So.. are you trying to say that these Sabermetrics make baseball "about as much fun as doing your taxes" for you?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

All stats.

 

Even wins and losses? This brings up a question in regards to Thunder's post about playing for sheer enjoyment: why even keep score?

 

We all know the likely answer is "competition", but I think back to two levels: T-ball (glad that's over) and high school. In T-ball the coaches don't keep score, just track of when their entire batting orders hit so they know when it's the other team's turn to swing. But despite the chaos -- batters sprinting home to third, fielders playing in the infield dirt, watching airplanes, running away from "bees" -- you can be sure that some kids definitely keep score; that stat surely matters to some. Actually, our town's Little League doesn't even keep track of scores in minor league games (ages 8-10) -- with no standings or playoffs. But almost all players know which side scores the most runs in every game.

 

In high school, I remember lopsided games when managers and coaches often had to choose to respect or disregard the game's unwritten rules. Any guys with a huge lead who were still stealing bases, especially third, were poor sports, while baserunners who refused to score on continual wild pitches were classy (bad clubs run out of pitchers who can throw strikes quickly). Of course, any team getting its ass kicked could do whatever it could to try to get back in the game.

 

No one wants to surrender, but... it'd be interesting to research when leagues and levels invented the Mercy Rule. It was certainly before spring soccer or lacrosse became popular and started to dilute the talent and lead to more disparity.

[Thunder]

So.. are you trying to say that these Sabermetrics make baseball "about as much fun as doing your taxes" for you?

 

No. Less fun than doing my taxes. I'm an accounting student, so I actually like taxes

[Thunder]

Even wins and losses? This brings up a question in regards to Thunder's post about playing for sheer enjoyment: why even keep score?

 

We all know the likely answer is "competition", but I think back to two levels: T-ball (glad that's over) and high school. In T-ball the coaches don't keep score, just track of when their entire batting orders hit so they know when it's the other team's turn to swing. But despite the chaos -- batters sprinting home to third, fielders playing in the infield dirt, watching airplanes, running away from "bees" -- you can be sure that some kids definitely keep score; that stat surely matters to some. Actually, our town's Little League doesn't even keep track of scores in minor league games (ages 8-10) -- with no standings or playoffs. But almost all players know which side scores the most runs in every game.

 

In high school, I remember lopsided games when managers and coaches often had to choose to respect or disregard the game's unwritten rules. Any guys with a huge lead who were still stealing bases, especially third, were poor sports, while baserunners who refused to score on continual wild pitches were classy (bad clubs run out of pitchers who can throw strikes quickly). Of course, any team getting its ass kicked could do whatever it could to try to get back in the game.

 

No one wants to surrender, but... it'd be interesting to research when leagues and levels invented the Mercy Rule. It was certainly before spring soccer or lacrosse became popular and started to dilute the talent and lead to more disparity.

 

Don't even get me started. Lacrosse killed my town's youth baseball program

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Don't even get me started. Lacrosse killed my town's youth baseball program

 

Ya, all the hockey players who were good at baseball switched to lacrosse. What could be better, a sport where you can actually use your stick to hit your opponent!

[Kimmi]

^

 

No more shaking off. Add a pitch clock.

 

Watching pitchers shake off and and get inside their own heads is part of the enjoyment of baseball.

[Kimmi]

Stats are more dehumanizing than robot umps or ear pieces.

 

Not at all.

 

Stats are not being used during play. They are used either beforehand to strategize or afterwards to assess.

[Thunder]

Not at all.

 

Stats are not being used during play. They are used either beforehand to strategize or afterwards to assess.

 

That's an incredibly naive statement Kimmi. Why do we have pinch-hitters or pinch-runners? The stats show a higher success rate with that player. Every single managerial decision made in a game is based off stats. They may not directly use them all the time, but they influence everything. They influence batters going down into the tunnel to watch film in between at bats

[Kimmi]

I'm personally not a fan of stats either. Can't we just watch baseball for the fun of it? Why do we have to make everything harder?

 

For example, I didn't play fantasy football this past year, and I enjoyed watching the game so much more. No rooting interests, other than my favorite teams/players

 

You can absolutely just watch baseball for the fun of it. No one is making you use stats in any way that you don't want to. For me, stats make the game more enjoyable. I'm not looking up stats during the game (usually), I'm watching and enjoying the game just like you do. My enjoyment in stats comes when studying or discussing the games either before or after they occur.

[Kimmi]

So.. are you trying to say that these Sabermetrics make baseball "about as much fun as doing your taxes" for you?

 

I think he really, really likes doing taxes. LOL

[Kimmi]

No. Less fun than doing my taxes. I'm an accounting student, so I actually like taxes

 

Ha. You are speaking nonsense again.

[Kimmi]

That's an incredibly naive statement Kimmi. Why do we have pinch-hitters or pinch-runners? The stats show a higher success rate with that player. Every single managerial decision made in a game is based off stats. They may not directly use them all the time, but they influence everything. They influence batters going down into the tunnel to watch film in between at bats

 

Yes, but it is not during the play of the game, like robot umps would be. It's used to strategize, as I said in a previous post. I know that stats influence every aspect of sports, but that is different than dehumanizing the game by replacing an aspect of the game with technology.

[Thunder]

Yes, but it is not during the play of the game, like robot umps would be. It's used to strategize, as I said in a previous post. I know that stats influence every aspect of sports, but that is different than dehumanizing the game by replacing an aspect of the game with technology.

 

I agree with that. I hate stats enough as it is, but recognize that their presence is everywhere in the game and that's there's no way to get around that. Robot umps would take even more joy for me

[Kimmi]

I agree with that. I hate stats enough as it is, but recognize that their presence is everywhere in the game and that's there's no way to get around that. Robot umps would take even more joy for me

 

There is nothing wrong with not being a fan of sabermetrics. Many people are not, and that's okay.

 

OTOH, discounting the validity of advanced stats is a whole other story. (That's not directed at you, but in general.)

[harmony]

You can absolutely just watch baseball for the fun of it. No one is making you use stats in any way that you don't want to. For me, stats make the game more enjoyable. I'm not looking up stats during the game (usually), I'm watching and enjoying the game just like you do. My enjoyment in stats comes when studying or discussing the games either before or after they occur.

This year I was blessed to attend three college baseball games before the COVID-19 shutdown. I can't remember the scores, much less other stats, and cannot name any of the players.

 

It was just baseball for the fun of it.

[mvp 78]

I agree with that. I hate stats enough as it is, but recognize that their presence is everywhere in the game and that's there's no way to get around that. Robot umps would take even more joy for me

 

No.

[mvp 78]

Even wins and losses? This brings up a question in regards to Thunder's post about playing for sheer enjoyment: why even keep score?

 

We all know the likely answer is "competition", but I think back to two levels: T-ball (glad that's over) and high school. In T-ball the coaches don't keep score, just track of when their entire batting orders hit so they know when it's the other team's turn to swing. But despite the chaos -- batters sprinting home to third, fielders playing in the infield dirt, watching airplanes, running away from "bees" -- you can be sure that some kids definitely keep score; that stat surely matters to some. Actually, our town's Little League doesn't even keep track of scores in minor league games (ages 8-10) -- with no standings or playoffs. But almost all players know which side scores the most runs in every game.

 

In high school, I remember lopsided games when managers and coaches often had to choose to respect or disregard the game's unwritten rules. Any guys with a huge lead who were still stealing bases, especially third, were poor sports, while baserunners who refused to score on continual wild pitches were classy (bad clubs run out of pitchers who can throw strikes quickly). Of course, any team getting its ass kicked could do whatever it could to try to get back in the game.

 

No one wants to surrender, but... it'd be interesting to research when leagues and levels invented the Mercy Rule. It was certainly before spring soccer or lacrosse became popular and started to dilute the talent and lead to more disparity.

 

Especially wins and losses.

[mvp 78]

So excitement about Babe Ruth's 60 home runs and Roger Maris's 61 home runs was dehumanizing?

 

It’s fine if the chase is more important than the human.

[mvp 78]

I'm personally not a fan of stats either. Can't we just watch baseball for the fun of it? Why do we have to make everything harder?

 

For example, I didn't play fantasy football this past year, and I enjoyed watching the game so much more. No rooting interests, other than my favorite teams/players

^^^

[mvp 78]

That's one of the reasons I steer clear of fantasy stuff.

It gives me a reason to follow other teams.

[mvp 78]

No. Less fun than doing my taxes. I'm an accounting student, so I actually like taxes

 

Yuck

[mvp 78]

Watching pitchers shake off and and get inside their own heads is part of the enjoyment of baseball.

 

Oh hell no. That’s like enjoying the crotch tugs.

[mvp 78]

Not at all.

 

Stats are not being used during play. They are used either beforehand to strategize or afterwards to assess.

 

Disagree. Have you seen a baseball game in the last decade?