The Pen

[S5Dewey]

The problem with the BP is that the BP is being asked to do more than a BP should be asked to do. The "problem with the BP" in last night's game was that the offense couldn't get a hit with RISP.

[moonslav59]

The problem with the BP is that the BP is being asked to do more than a BP should be asked to do. The "problem with the BP" in last night's game was that the offense couldn't get a hit with RISP.

 

Yet many will remember just the pen got the loss.

[Kimmi]

A “proven closer” doesn’t fix the bullpen. But letting two late inning, high leverage arms go and replacing them only with Colten Brewer and wishful thinking was a bad idea.

 

I do wonder if there was some MASSIVE miscommunication here. Dombrowski built a team expecting it to be carried by the rotation, with the bullpen merely wrapping up the ends of games.. But Cora is managing the team in a way that emphasizes resting the rotation and relying more heavily on the bullpen. Not exactly coinciding plans here...

 

I don't think it's necessarily wishful thinking. The best relievers often seemingly come out of nowhere. And relievers who were great high leverage arms aren't necessarily great high leverage arms the next year.

[Kimmi]

Kimmi , I think an impartial observer would look at our off season like this : To D.D. " You lost your closer , (and 42 saves ) who has been one of your top performers for the last three years . You also lost your best ( albeit sometimes erratic) power arm in the pen . You basically did nothing to compensate for these losses . You took the position that the remaining guys could handle things . That was a real leap of faith . And it has not worked out very well . The performance of your starters has been an unexpected disappointment . The performance of your bullpen has been predictable. "

 

I am guessing that most people would agree with you about the need to add some of those well known free agent relievers to the pen. I disagree that the performance of the BP has been predictable.

[Kimmi]

The problem with the BP is that the BP is being asked to do more than a BP should be asked to do. The "problem with the BP" in last night's game was that the offense couldn't get a hit with RISP.

 

That's the core of the problem, IMO.

 

If the starters had been performing more to expectations all season long, our pen would look a lot better.

[Kimmi]

Red Sox Stats‏ @redsoxstats 46m46 minutes ago

 

Workman and Ottavino

 

Workman and Ottavino

 

G 44 44

IP 41 41

K/9 12.6 12.3

BB/9 6.1 5.9

ERA 1.74 1.76

WAR 0.9 0.8

 

 

We have essentially the same pitcher, for a fraction of the cost.

[moonslav59]

Red Sox Stats‏ @redsoxstats 46m46 minutes ago

 

Workman and Ottavino

 

Workman and Ottavino

 

G 44 44

IP 41 41

K/9 12.6 12.3

BB/9 6.1 5.9

ERA 1.74 1.76

WAR 0.9 0.8

 

 

We have essentially the same pitcher, for a fraction of the cost.

 

If we'd only have signed Cody Allen instead of Pearce!

[Kimmi]

If we'd only have signed Cody Allen instead of Pearce!

 

I have no problems with the way Dombrowski did things during the offseason. It looks really bad now, but I'd support the same types of moves all over again.

[a700hitter]

I have no problems with the way Dombrowski did things during the offseason. It looks really bad now, but I'd support the same types of moves all over again.

I am surprised that you liked bringing back Pearce and Nunez.

[FredLynn]

The problem with the BP is that the BP is being asked to do more than a BP should be asked to do. The "problem with the BP" in last night's game was that the offense couldn't get a hit with RISP.

 

The problem with the pen is two fold: the SP sucks and the pen sucks too. They are currently the ninth ranked pen in the AL and the SP is seventh in ERA. The problem with the pen is not the offense which is first in runs scored and third in OPS in the AL.

Our pitching sucks, and as we all know, solid pitching is what wins rings.

[dannycater]

You ever notice on the Sox pen that it's usually just one guy who implodes when it's a string of 3 or 4 relievers (save for the Yankee debacle in London where it seemed everyone got hit). And it's almost always a different guy. One game it's Barnes, then it's Brasier, then it's Walden, etc.

[a700hitter]

You ever notice on the Sox pen that it's usually just one guy who implodes when it's a string of 3 or 4 relievers (save for the Yankee debacle in London where it seemed everyone got hit). And it's almost always a different guy. One game it's Barnes, then it's Brasier, then it's Walden, etc.

Using 3 or 4 relievers in a game is a quest in search of failure.

[dannycater]

Really to expand on my last post, a lot of good innings by the bullpen in a lot of games, it's just they play Russian Roulette by having to throw a 4th reliever because the f***ing Starting Staff collectively can't go enough outs.

[dannycater]

The problem with the BP is that the BP is being asked to do more than a BP should be asked to do. The "problem with the BP" in last night's game was that the offense couldn't get a hit with RISP.

 

Great post about connecting bad bullpen to offense not clutching up. That's also been a signature problem. At least in the Toronto win, the SP and the bullpen were in essence bailed out by the offense. So mark that one for the offense doing their job, maybe more so than it should have.

[dannycater]

I can't believe I'm saying this but if Rock the Cashner doesn't get 18 outs, I almost half-expect the fans to boo him if he gets shelled early.

[OH FOY]

Here's a stat that supports you DC.

Last 25 games Sox have scored 174 runs, 6.96 runs a game

They have allowed 149 runs in that span, 5.96 runs a game.

16-9 record.

Edited July 16, 2019 by OH FOY!

[dannycater]

Last year if they averaged 7 runs a game over a 25-game span, the team probably would have gone 22-3

[dgalehouse]

Brasier optioned to Pawtucket . D. Hernandez up . Dombrowski is getting serious .

[dannycater]

Brasier optioned to Pawtucket . D. Hernandez up . Dombrowski is getting serious .

 

f*** Cora abused Brasier, talk about knee-jerk reactions

[Bellhorn04]

Brasier optioned to Pawtucket . D. Hernandez up . Dombrowski is getting serious .

 

f*** Cora abused Brasier, talk about knee-jerk reactions

 

Nah, he's just being shuttled after pitching 3 days in a row. He'll be back shortly when the next guy gets shuttled. Nothing else they can do right now.

[oldtimer]

Nah, he's just being shuttled after pitching 3 days in a row. He'll be back shortly when the next guy gets shuttled. Nothing else they can do right now.

 

I agree. He is probably worn down and a period down may help him get ready to help in August.

[dgalehouse]

I have no problems with the way Dombrowski did things during the offseason. It looks really bad now, but I'd support the same types of moves all over again.

 

I have to disagree . An experienced G.M. thinking he could lose Kimbrel and Kelly from his bullpen without it making a difference is foolish. He needed to do something. To me it seems like he was complacent and overconfident. Flush with success and maybe a little smug .

[notin]

I can't believe I'm saying this but if Rock the Cashner doesn't get 18 outs, I almost half-expect the fans to boo him if he gets shelled early.

 

And I can’t believe I’m saying this, but Rock the Cashner is an awesome nickname..,

[Bellhorn04]

I agree. He is probably worn down and a period down may help him get ready to help in August.

 

I don't think it's about him being worn down. They're basically shuttling relievers who have options back and forth between Boston and Pawtucket right now to have as many fresh arms as possible.

[dannycater]

And I can’t believe I’m saying this, but Rock the Cashner is an awesome nickname..,

 

The only band that mattered. :-)

[dannycater]

146 transactions or reported moves by Red Sox since April 3. The Clown Car has officially run out of gas.

[SCM33]

Moonslav,

 

We all appreciate all the research you do, however, none of it matters. The pen has been brutal, by any measure.

 

The SP is partly to blame, but they have been awful.........almost all year.

[FredLynn]

By the way, our RPs have pitched only 14 more innings than the Yankees-and 73 fewer innings than the Rays. We rank fifth in RP innings pitched. Its not a case of being overworked so much as a case of just stinking.

[notin]

By the way, our RPs have pitched only 14 more innings than the Yankees-and 73 fewer innings than the Rays. We rank fifth in RP innings pitched. Its not a case of being overworked so much as a case of just stinking.

 

It’s a combination of the two.

 

Not all innings are created equal. Because our RPs haven’t been very good, I expect they have averaged more pitches per IP than the pens in Tampa and NY...

[jacksonianmarch]

By the way, our RPs have pitched only 14 more innings than the Yankees-and 73 fewer innings than the Rays. We rank fifth in RP innings pitched. Its not a case of being overworked so much as a case of just stinking.

 

The Yanks and Rays have used openers with bulk starters afterwards. The Sox haven’t done that yet, using traditional starters. So their pen numbers are true. The Rays and ours, not so much