The Pen

[OH FOY]

Sox have to make a decision on Tyler Thornburg.

https://www.trifectanetworksports.com/red-sox-have-a-major-decision-to-make-on-thornburg/

[OH FOY]

I've flipped my views, bring up Darwinzon Hernandez, sure he'll walk a ton of batters but the kid has a Major League arm, maybe we strike gold. No need to go crazy for a 5th starter.

Eovaldi will be on a pitch count, for a few starts, put it to good use and use the pitch count for the BP. If he helps the BP, good, if by the time he gets to full strength, a better need as a Starter, then move him.

Team has to do something drastic, 5th starters, that probably will not throw more then 5 innings start, lucky if you get 6, will put even more work, on a overworked BP.

Not too many 8+ innings 5th starters around. Even 7+ Lucky if you get 6+.

Edited July 7, 2019 by OH FOY!

[notin]

Sox have to make a decision on Tyler Thornburg.

https://www.trifectanetworksports.com/red-sox-have-a-major-decision-to-make-on-thornburg/

 

I think that decision should be 3 letters long, but it won’t be...

[moonslav59]

I think that decision should be 3 letters long, but it won’t be...

 

It's not like Walden (or even Velazquez) doesn't deserve a demotion, at this point, but Thornburg is toast. He's done nothing to show he belongs in the bigs right now.

 

[notin]

It's not like Walden (or even Velazquez) doesn't deserve a demotion, at this point, but Thornburg is toast. He's done nothing to show he belongs in the bigs right now.

 

 

Walden’s demotion comes when Eovaldi returns...

[notin]

It's not like Walden (or even Velazquez) doesn't deserve a demotion, at this point, but Thornburg is toast. He's done nothing to show he belongs in the bigs right now.

 

 

I've flipped my views, bring up Darwinzon Hernandez, sure he'll walk a ton of batters but the kid has a Major League arm, maybe we strike gold. No need to go crazy for a 5th starter.

Eovaldi will be on a pitch count, for a few starts, put it to good use and use the pitch count for the BP. If he helps the BP, good, if by the time he gets to full strength, a better need as a Starter, then move him.

Team has to do something drastic, 5th starters, that probably will not throw more then 5 innings start, lucky if you get 6, will put even more work, on a overworked BP.

Not too many 8+ innings 5th starters around. Even 7+ Lucky if you get 6+.

 

I’m ok with bringing up Darwinzon. Just limit his IP per appearance...

[moonslav59]

We also have out-of-options Johnson on the IL.

 

There are more squeezes to come beyond Eovaldi and maybe (hopefully not) Thornburg.

[jacksonianmarch]

I've flipped my views, bring up Darwinzon Hernandez, sure he'll walk a ton of batters but the kid has a Major League arm, maybe we strike gold. No need to go crazy for a 5th starter.

Eovaldi will be on a pitch count, for a few starts, put it to good use and use the pitch count for the BP. If he helps the BP, good, if by the time he gets to full strength, a better need as a Starter, then move him.

Team has to do something drastic, 5th starters, that probably will not throw more then 5 innings start, lucky if you get 6, will put even more work, on a overworked BP.

Not too many 8+ innings 5th starters around. Even 7+ Lucky if you get 6+.

 

Cmon man. DH has walked almost a batter per inning. 47 walks in 55IP. 6 walks in 5.1IP at the MLB level. The guy cannot locate and will be death on your pen even further. If your savior is a guy who walks guys like Daniel Bard post the rotation attempt and isn't even preventing runs well in AAA, then how do you expect him to play well in Boston?

[moonslav59]

Cmon man. DH has walked almost a batter per inning. 47 walks in 55IP. 6 walks in 5.1IP at the MLB level. The guy cannot locate and will be death on your pen even further. If your savior is a guy who walks guys like Daniel Bard post the rotation attempt and isn't even preventing runs well in AAA, then how do you expect him to play well in Boston?

 

I've been a big DHern supporter, but I have to agree, he's not a ML option, right now. Not for a contender, for sure.

[devildavid]

Fair point. However, the Yankees' bullpen was built to be their strength, to pick up a mediocre rotation. With the Sox, it's the other way around.

 

The Sox bullpen is worn out, and there is not enough depth to it.

 

That's exactly right. The starters need to both pitch better and deeper into games. The Sox can't remake their pitching strengths and weaknesses midstream. The pitching issue is a performance issue, particularly starting pitching. They either perform as expected, or the Sox will struggle to make the postseason.

[moonslav59]

That's exactly right. The starters need to both pitch better and deeper into games. The Sox can't remake their pitching strengths and weaknesses midstream. The pitching issue is a performance issue, particularly starting pitching. They either perform as expected, or the Sox will struggle to make the postseason.

 

...and my point was that with the "added rest" they got during ST'ing and less IP'd so far this season than previous seasons, shouldn't we expect the starters to carrying the load for the pen, right now as they go through severe struggles?

 

I say yes, but in fact, the exact opposite is happening. If it wasn't for our offense, we'd be 15-20 down right now.

 

Our starters have sucked when we've needed them most.

 

[devildavid]

...and my point was that with the "added rest" they got during ST'ing and less IP'd so far this season than previous seasons, shouldn't we expect the starters to carrying the load for the pen, right now as they go through severe struggles?

 

I say yes, but in fact, the exact opposite is happening. If it wasn't for our offense, we'd be 15-20 down right now.

 

Our starters have sucked when we've needed them most.

 

 

They really need to perform as they are capable of, or the rest of the season will be more of the same. It is going to be an extremely competitive WC race, and the Sox need to start firing on all cylinders. Starting pitching is the key to success.

[moonslav59]

They really need to perform as they are capable of, or the rest of the season will be more of the same. It is going to be an extremely competitive WC race, and the Sox need to start firing on all cylinders. Starting pitching is the key to success.

 

I totally agree. It's almost always about starting pitching.

 

I'm hopeful that the strategy of extra rest early will help our starters be "fresher" than others, and they will begin to perform like we all hoped or expected them to do.

[harmony]

Yes, I get it, but my point is we should be able to get 1-2 decent pitchers without giving up Casas, Dalebec, Duran, Mata, Chatham, DHern, Groome, Houk or Flores.

Here is another list of Red Sox prospects:

 

500 Cannot read property 'find' of undefined | MLB.com

WWW.MLB.COM

[moonslav59]

Here is another list of Red Sox prospects:

 

500 Cannot read property 'find' of undefined | MLB.com

WWW.MLB.COM

 

Kind of strange no Groome in the top 30, but I guess they just rank players that are actively playing.

 

Thanks for the alternate view.

[dgalehouse]

I'm not so keen on the idea of Eovaldi being the fifth starter . I prefer putting him in the closer's role . In his eight year career as a starter he has posted a rather unimpressive record of 44 - 53 , with an ERA of 4.21 . Those kind of starters are not hard to find . Most of his recent renown has come from his work out of the bullpen in last year's post season. That may be his calling. A high velocity, power arm straight from Central casting. The prototypical closer . Besides , it should be easier and cheaper to find a fifth starter type than it would be to find a closer who would be as good or better than Eovaldi. Not even to mention that fewer innings pitched would be beneficial to his somewhat precarious health . My vote : Eovaldi as the new closer . It could help organize and improve the entire bullpen. It surely is better than hoping that guys like Hembree and Wright are the answer .

[moonslav59]

I'm not so keen on the idea of Eovaldi being the fifth starter . I prefer putting him in the closer's role . In his eight year career as a starter he has posted a rather unimpressive record of 44 - 53 , with an ERA of 4.21 . Those kind of starters are not hard to find . Most of his recent renown has come from his work out of the bullpen in last year's post season. That may be his calling. A high velocity, power arm straight from Central casting. The prototypical closer . Besides , it should be easier and cheaper to find a fifth starter type than it would be to find a closer who would be as good or better than Eovaldi. Not even to mention that fewer innings pitched would be beneficial to his somewhat precarious health . My vote : Eovaldi as the new closer . It could help organize and improve the entire bullpen. It surely is better than hoping that guys like Hembree and Wright are the answer .

 

I like the idea, too, but if he's healthy next spring, I may plan to have him as the 4th starter. We can't afford to replace Porcello with a cheap FA.

[notin]

I like the idea, too, but if he's healthy next spring, I may plan to have him as the 4th starter. We can't afford to replace Porcello with a cheap FA.

 

But as for now, it looks like the two “new” relievers fans are clamoring for are Eovaldi and Wright.

 

Unless Eovaldi just absolutely crushes it as a reliever, I expect him back in the rotation next year...

[jung]

But as for now, it looks like the two “new” relievers fans are clamoring for are Eovaldi and Wright.

 

Unless Eovaldi just absolutely crushes it as a reliever, I expect him back in the rotation next year...

 

Waiting for Wright's knee to cave right out there on the mound.

 

I am in favor of Nate coming back to the pen to gain his footing back. But Nate would be the ONLY starter we have willing to challenge hitters at the moment, pitch in the strike zone instead of around the edges of it, earn easy outs in 5 pitches or less and go deeper into games than the rest of these chumps can go.

 

So my preference would be to see him come back to the Pen and then go back to the Rotation. As far as I can tell, instead of Erod learning how to pitch from our more veteran starters, they have learned how to pitch from Erod, much to my disappointment.

[Bellhorn04]

I am in favor of Nate coming back to the pen to gain his footing back. But Nate would be the ONLY starter we have willing to challenge hitters at the moment, pitch in the strike zone instead of around the edges of it, earn easy outs in 5 pitches or less and go deeper into games than the rest of these chumps can go.

 

So my preference would be to see him come back to the Pen and then go back to the Rotation. As far as I can tell, instead of Erod learning how to pitch from our more veteran starters, they have learned how to pitch from Erod, much to my disappointment.

 

Maybe it's all Rocket Ball Phobia, jung.

[jung]

Maybe it's all Rocket Ball Phobia, jung.

 

Would not surprise me in the least. Would just be another indication of MLB's Madness IMO.

 

That said, the widespread picking around the fringes of the Strike Zone, lets not challenge hitters PARISH THE THOUGHT, nonsense started in earnest a good 5-6 years before the 2016 1.A version of the rocket ship ball, at least 5-6 years before it and it seems pretty much universal now. Maybe two or three NL pitchers willing to challenge hitters and that is about it. Now that we are up to 1.C who knows what is going on with the pitchers. Can they even grip this thing?

 

As for not allowing hitters to command the entire plate left to right and right to left and reach across at will, Pedro has been complaining that pitchers no longer feature enough command of their pitches to pitch inside and at least own one side of the plate or the other since 2010, again before the 1.A rocket ship baseball came on the scene.

[OH FOY]

Agree 100% nobody pitches inside anymore. These guys, have no fear at the plate, at all.

[Bellhorn04]

Agree 100% nobody pitches inside anymore. These guys, have no fear at the plate, at all.

 

Unless they're facing Jake "I'll put a dent in his skull" Arrieta. (See story about him and Todd Frazier.)

[OH FOY]

Unless they're facing Jake "I'll put a dent in his skull" Arrieta. (See story about him and Todd Frazier.)

 

Saw that haha!

[Kimmi]

The pen usage is a little bit deceiving since we have 8 games started with an opener between injuries to CC, Paxton and German. Each of those openers was followed by a “bulk” guy who was technically the starter going 3-5 innings each time.

 

Unless you go game by game through the game logs, which I'm not going to do, it's difficult to know exactly how the pen usage is broken down in some of these stats. I noticed that Fangraphs had German and his 70 something innings listed under both starter and reliever stats.

[Kimmi]

I've flipped my views, bring up Darwinzon Hernandez, sure he'll walk a ton of batters but the kid has a Major League arm, maybe we strike gold. No need to go crazy for a 5th starter.

Eovaldi will be on a pitch count, for a few starts, put it to good use and use the pitch count for the BP. If he helps the BP, good, if by the time he gets to full strength, a better need as a Starter, then move him.

Team has to do something drastic, 5th starters, that probably will not throw more then 5 innings start, lucky if you get 6, will put even more work, on a overworked BP.

Not too many 8+ innings 5th starters around. Even 7+ Lucky if you get 6+.

 

Tanner Houck has also been moved to the pen, in hopes that he will be able to help out the team down the stretch.

[Kimmi]

That's exactly right. The starters need to both pitch better and deeper into games. The Sox can't remake their pitching strengths and weaknesses midstream. The pitching issue is a performance issue, particularly starting pitching. They either perform as expected, or the Sox will struggle to make the postseason.

 

You and I are on the same page on this one.

[Kimmi]

I'm not so keen on the idea of Eovaldi being the fifth starter . I prefer putting him in the closer's role . In his eight year career as a starter he has posted a rather unimpressive record of 44 - 53 , with an ERA of 4.21 . Those kind of starters are not hard to find . Most of his recent renown has come from his work out of the bullpen in last year's post season. That may be his calling. A high velocity, power arm straight from Central casting. The prototypical closer . Besides , it should be easier and cheaper to find a fifth starter type than it would be to find a closer who would be as good or better than Eovaldi. Not even to mention that fewer innings pitched would be beneficial to his somewhat precarious health . My vote : Eovaldi as the new closer . It could help organize and improve the entire bullpen. It surely is better than hoping that guys like Hembree and Wright are the answer .

 

I have to almost 100% disagree with this post.

[jacksonianmarch]

Tanner Houck has also been moved to the pen, in hopes that he will be able to help out the team down the stretch.

 

It’s a crap shoot with the rookies. Rarely you get a KRod circa 2002. Most of the time, you get a Craig Hansen performance. Even if you get a Joba type start, it’s hard to rely on them in crunch time. See the Cleveland Midge game

[moonslav59]

But as for now, it looks like the two “new” relievers fans are clamoring for are Eovaldi and Wright.

 

Unless Eovaldi just absolutely crushes it as a reliever, I expect him back in the rotation next year...

 

In a sense, we also added Hembree to our more recently troubled pen.

 

Maybe they do think Eovaldi, Wright and Hembree is all the pen needs and they'll focus all their resources on a 5th starter.

 

Could happen.

 

If it were me, I'd stick with Velazquez/Johnson as my #5, trade for a solid closer, and use Eovaldi like the Andrew Miller of old. Having Eovaldi and Wright able to go 2 IP, if needed, would take an enormous strain off the rest of the pen and may allow guys like Workman, Hembree, Barnes and Brasier to thrive in less high leverage situations while being used less often.