Sox starting pitching thread

[mvp 78]

Other than that, all the prospects Dombrowski traded are either in the majors and scuffling (Margot, Moncada), hurt (Espinoza), or not top 100 material to begin with (Basabes, Dubon, and so on), so even if you could go back and rescind all of his deals, whether our farm would really look much better than it does now is highly dubious.

 

It seems to me that DD really maximized the value of a lot of the guys he traded. Good on him.

[notin]

The Sox drafts since 2014 ( I believe ) have been non-productive other than Benni.

 

Yeah, DD sold our prospects for winning now.

 

The pipeline has not produced anything of substance ( other than Benni ).

 

And you don’t think it might be a tad early to say that?

[cp176]

I don't want to get into that, either.

 

But DD definitely gutted the farm and it was a predictable outcome. Some trades I like. Some I did not.

 

My biggest gripe against BC was he never dealt any prospects.

 

But to say our farm isn't depleted right now does involve a certain amount of ostrich-like behavior...

 

Saying that the farm system is depleted is correct - saying that it is toast is an opinion that I don't share. If I'm the one you are calling an ostrich. I don't really like that. I don't see things the way you do.

[Emp9]

I'm not sure it can be argued that Ben could put together a competent starting rotation. Ben had the luxury to trade whoever, he just didn't want to. There's no reason to expect him to not hoard prospects. I don't see him trading for Sale or Kimbrel. Without them, they probably don't make the playoffs. Maybe Ben even signs a few more Pablos and Hanleys to join in the decimation of the cap.

 

But you’re also assuming guys like Sale where available for trade at that time. I don’t think they were. In fact, we all know Sale in particular wasn’t available. It took serious, well reported issues that Sale had with the White Sox organization for them to even consider moving him.

[mvp 78]

But you’re also assuming guys like Sale where available for trade at that time. I don’t think they were. In fact, we all know Sale in particular wasn’t available. It took serious, well reported issues that Sale had with the White Sox organization for them to even consider moving him.

 

Guys similar to Kimbrel's level are available every offseason. Ben never made a move there. Not convinced he'd do one for Sale.

[vegasbob]

All this discussion about the status of the farm system and who built it or depleted it reminds of the sign on the side of the 14th fairway : " Free beer tomorrow"

 

The Red Sox can only win the 2018 WS this year. The deep pockets and 6 month off season provide plenty of time and resources to worry about 2019-2020-2021. Play it to win now.

[Kimmi]

Why? The team came in last place 3 out of the 4 years he was at the helm?

 

I don't want to rehash the entire argument.

 

Suffice it to say that I am thrilled with our current team.

[moonslav59]

I don't want to rehash the entire argument.

 

Suffice it to say that I am thrilled with our current team.

 

And they say we keep bringing this up.

[Kimmi]

 

And they say we keep bringing this up.

 

#Thecliffisreal

[mvp 78]

 

And they say we keep bringing this up.

 

You do tho. You may not bring it up every time, but you bring it up.

[Spudboy]

And you don’t think it might be a tad early to say that?

 

No. No I do not.

 

Who among the Sox top 3 picks in 2014-2017 is excelling?

 

None.

[cp176]

I wonder if people would be whining as much about our obviously irreparable farm system (lol) if Groome had stayed healthy and Chavis had stayed off the drugs.

[Spudboy]

I wonder if people would be whining as much about our obviously irreparable farm system (lol) if Groome had stayed healthy and Chavis had stayed off the drugs.

 

Stop with the common sense.

 

It has no place in this discussion.

[cp176]

Stop with the common sense.

 

It has no place in this discussion.

 

I'm gradually realizing that!

[jd98]

Another thing regarding Ben/DD/farm, if you're out of the playoff race in July, you're not trading away prospects to bolster your team for the stretch run, and you can also trade your pending free agents to acquire prospects. Ben had that luxury 3 out of 4 years, DD 0 of 3. And you also get higher draft picks, which hopefully leads to better prospects (Beni).

[notin]

Saying that the farm system is depleted is correct - saying that it is toast is an opinion that I don't share. If I'm the one you are calling an ostrich. I don't really like that. I don't see things the way you do.

 

Depleted or toast does not differ.

 

I don't think there is a single impact player in that farm system above A-ball, and even the higher touted A-ball prospects will have attrition.

 

It's pretty toasted...

[cp176]

Depleted or toast does not differ.

 

I don't think there is a single impact player in that farm system above A-ball, and even the higher touted A-ball prospects will have attrition.

 

It's pretty toasted...

 

I don't agree with respect to your choice of words nor to your description of our current farm system. I think that it is depleted but not quite to the extent that you and your supporters say that it is. You do have lots of support for sure just not from me but hey my head is in the sand right.

[cp176]

You said the farm is depleted. I'm sure you took those two guys into account when choosing that word. I can only speak for myself but id agree with you: the farm is depleted.

 

I agree that it is depleted. Certainly not to the point that it will not be recoverable. I just don't buy into the embellishing use of verbiage. It is just me I guess but when it rains outside, I tend to call it rainy, I don't suggest that it is monsoon season. In my opinion, almost every move that was done was done with a goal in mind - to make us a better baseball team. We have some of the best players in the game playing for us right now and tomorrow because of some of the trades made. If we had kept a majority of the players that we traded away, yup Pawtucket and Portland might be destination points but our current team would be no where near as good as it is now,. I think that our future will be just fine as well even though we no longer have the talented players traded away who likely would never appear on a Red Sox roster until it expands in the fall. Once again just my opinion. It really doesn't appear that my opinion is a popular one. i'm ok with that.

[Hitch]

edit: Ignore...not sure what happened there....thought it was a double post but my old one went. Anyway...you got it ha!

[Hitch]

I agree that it is depleted. Certainly not to the point that it will not be recoverable. I just don't buy into the embellishing use of verbiage. It is just me I guess but when it rains outside, I tend to call it rainy, I don't suggest that it is monsoon season. In my opinion, almost every move that was done was done with a goal in mind - to make us a better baseball team. We have some of the best players in the game playing for us right now and tomorrow because of some of the trades made. If we had kept a majority of the players that we traded away, yup Pawtucket and Portland might be destination points but our current team would be no where near as good as it is now,. I think that our future will be just fine as well even though we no longer have the talented players traded away who likely would never appear on a Red Sox roster until it expands in the fall. Once again just my opinion. It really doesn't appear that my opinion is a popular one. i'm ok with that.

 

Yeah I agree with most of that. We will hopefully draft well and catch some good luck and rebuild it. But I am happy with the team we have right now. More than happy. I think he could have maybe traded one or two less prospects in his moves which would have allowed us to use them for other needs, but beggars can't be choosers.

 

I don't think there's any point bringing up Chavis and Groome, though. Even with those, like you say, the farm is still a little bare at the moment.

[cp176]

Yeah I agree with most of that. We will hopefully draft well and catch some good luck and rebuild it. But I am happy with the team we have right now. More than happy. I think he could have maybe traded one or two less prospects in his moves which would have allowed us to use them for other needs, but beggars can't be choosers.

 

I don't think there's any point bringing up Chavis and Groome, though. Even with those, like you say, the farm is still a little bare at the moment.

 

I do think that if Groome was healthy and doing well and Chavis was a normal productive prospect as wrong is it might be there are probably some people who would tend to think that our farm was not all that bad. They would for sure help with the outlook but still thin nonetheless. I agree though - still thin for the time being. Your choice of words suits me better I guess.

[Hitch]

I do think that if Groome was healthy and doing well and Chavis was a normal productive prospect as wrong is it might be there are probably some people who would tend to think that our farm was not all that bad. They would for sure help with the outlook but still thin nonetheless. I agree though - still thin for the time being. Your choice of words suits me better I guess.

 

Yeah agree with that too, things would be better if those guys were on the field performing, but regardless it's still thin. Let's hope we can fix that.

 

The Chavis news was such a blow. That power surge doesn't loo so impressive now.

 

Also pretty annoying that Pom has fallen off a cliff. If he performed this like he did last and we didn't re-sign him, we could have at least picked up the compensation pick.

[cp176]

Yeah agree with that too, things would be better if those guys were on the field performing, but regardless it's still thin. Let's hope we can fix that.

 

The Chavis news was such a blow. That power surge doesn't loo so impressive now.

 

Also pretty annoying that Pom has fallen off a cliff. If he performed this like he did last and we didn't re-sign him, we could have at least picked up the compensation pick.

 

I'm with you here. I've supported Pomeranz for sure . When I saw him last year, all I saw was a young big lefty throwing real real well. this year not so much. i feel for this guy. I'm going to be patient and keep on hoping but I really am not all that optimistic. He might have fallen off a cliff but I don't think the team will anytime soon. lol

[Carbo-Diem]

I don't agree with respect to your choice of words nor to your description of our current farm system. I think that it is depleted but not quite to the extent that you and your supporters say that it is. You do have lots of support for sure just not from me but hey my head is in the sand right.

 

 

He is right, here is a pic of the farm as we speak:

[greenmonster24]

Ben gave away prospects for hannihan and Bailey 2 years in a row traded for closer and they did nothing. He got lucky with Koji. I rather trade 3 prospects for the best closer team control 3 years then every season trading for a closer cause the one you got no good. Ben missed on lot of relievers just got lucky in 2013 with Breslow and Miller and Tazara I think

[notin]

I don't agree with respect to your choice of words nor to your description of our current farm system. I think that it is depleted but not quite to the extent that you and your supporters say that it is. You do have lots of support for sure just not from me but hey my head is in the sand right.

 

I have supporters? Awesome!!

 

I shall call them notinheads...

[notin]

Ben gave away prospects for hannihan and Bailey 2 years in a row traded for closer and they did nothing. He got lucky with Koji. I rather trade 3 prospects for the best closer team control 3 years then every season trading for a closer cause the one you got no good. Ben missed on lot of relievers just got lucky in 2013 with Breslow and Miller and Tazara I think

 

I don’t blame Cherington for Hanrahan or Bailey getting hurt much in the same way I don’t blame Dombrowski for Thornburg and Carson Smith getting hurt.

 

I’m not so sure how much luck was involved with the success stories. GMs don’t hand out multimillion dollar contracts and hope they pan out...

[notin]

He is right, here is a pic of the farm as we speak:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]644[/ATTACH]

 

I see attendance is up...

[Slasher9]

Ben gave away prospects for hannihan and Bailey 2 years in a row traded for closer and they did nothing. He got lucky with Koji. I rather trade 3 prospects for the best closer team control 3 years then every season trading for a closer cause the one you got no good.

Not the best day for this post.....

Thanks Rafi for getting the leprechaun off the hook....

[cp176]

I have supporters? Awesome!!

 

I shall call them notinheads...

 

Don't ask me to name them though! I shall call them knotheads.