Sox starting pitching thread

[Bellhorn04]

He started 3 post-season games for them and had some of his best post-season starts for the Blue Jays...

 

And in 2 of those 3 starts he gave up 5 runs (in each).

[vegasbob]

Last 30 day SP'er ERA- (10+ IP/ red under 24 IP)

 

 

24 Sale

32 Severino

46 Sabathia

46 Loaisiga

81 Porcello

96 Wright

104 Tanaka

107 ERod

110 Price

128 Gray

 

 

 

Assuming this table is all-MLB , it represents a universe of about 150 starting pitchers . Price, Wright and Erod are in the lower third, Porcello is mid range. Over a months time that's not championship level performance, except for Sale.

[jacksonianmarch]

Wright got a PRP injection and is scheduled for a bullpen shortly. The hope for the sox is that he returns coming out of the ASB

[moonslav59]

Assuming this table is all-MLB , it represents a universe of about 150 starting pitchers . Price, Wright and Erod are in the lower third, Porcello is mid range. Over a months time that's not championship level performance, except for Sale.

 

Yes, the numbers back up the point made.

 

If you take away just the last start from everyone but Sale, these numbers would look radically different.

[reYoukilis]

Your achilles heal can't be the Yankees. I can't stand high priced players who do well against unimportant teams but not against rivals, giving them good stats but not winning. That shows hes got talent but not focus or confidence in the big games. It kicks the whole team in the nuts, excuse my french.

[CharlieWhigg]

Price needs to get better against the Yankees, but he’s a very reliable starter the other 151 games a year

[Bellhorn04]

Price needs to get better against the Yankees, but he’s a very reliable starter the other 151 games a year

 

Texas also beats him up, for some reason.

[moonslav59]

OPS Against Price

 

1.025 NYM (25 PA)

.977 STL (29 PA)

.903 COL (90 PA)

 

.784 LAD (53)

.776 PHI (78)

 

.776 TEX (373)

.774 NYY (1033)

 

Best against...

 

.476 PIT (30 PA)

.525 SFG (97)

.526 SEA (234)

 

Records

19-3 vs TOR 2.46

13-5 vs BAL 2.77

10-2 vs CLE 2.24

10-4 vs MN 2.62

11-6 vs BOS 3.08

6-2 vs HOU 2.95

 

15-13 vs NYY 4.67

4-3 vs OAK 3.31

 

7-7 vs LAA 3.34

4-4 vs TBR 3.32

6-5 vs CWS 3.39

4-6 vs TEX 5.63

 

 

[Larry Cook]

Pomeranz looked rusty today. Do we keep Johnson in the rotation for another start?

[MADSTORK]

Price stinks. It was a bad acquisition from the get go. In his prime with the Rays we used to get to him. When he was with Toronto the manager chose not to start him for the playoffs and he's stunk practically the whole time he's been here. We hear more drama about him than about good play with the Eckersely controversy and playing some game that's bad for his throwing arm.

 

And now we have the highest payroll and Yankees are full of young talent, not even top 4 in payroll. No good.

 

 

Ive been saying this since they let Lester and Lackey go for Peanuts! Better watch out with your assessment, all these pink hats on this board will crucify you...

[MADSTORK]

OPS Against Price

 

1.025 NYM (25 PA)

.977 STL (29 PA)

.903 COL (90 PA)

 

.784 LAD (53)

.776 PHI (78)

 

.776 TEX (373)

.774 NYY (1033)

 

Best against...

 

.476 PIT (30 PA)

.525 SFG (97)

.526 SEA (234)

 

Records

19-3 vs TOR 2.46

13-5 vs BAL 2.77

10-2 vs CLE 2.24

10-4 vs MN 2.62

11-6 vs BOS 3.08

6-2 vs HOU 2.95

 

15-13 vs NYY 4.67

4-3 vs OAK 3.31

 

7-7 vs LAA 3.34

4-4 vs TBR 3.32

6-5 vs CWS 3.39

4-6 vs TEX 5.63

 

 

 

 

 

The fact is and the facts are undisputed,

Price is a bust and right up there with Sandoval Crawford Renteria Craig Ramirez and every other swinging #ic# Management brought in here without any regard to the media scrutiny and the hefty contracts given out to players over the age of thirty. Its a complete joke!

 

Now, is it salvageable? Yes it is, but the approach needed is to rid this team of the under performers. Dump Porcello who clears a spot for Castillo ( to pair with JBJ and better bench depth) and find a third starter to finish out the season. Porcello allows to many home runs per 9 to be counted on in a playoff run. I'll take my chances with Sale ERod and wright if need be.

 

As constituted this Starting Pitching staff will not win you a Series.

 

How bout machine gun tonight vs Washington. Another run allowed another kimbrel bailout in the 8th!

[FredLynn]

The fact is and the facts are undisputed,

Price is a bust and right up there with Sandoval Crawford Renteria Craig Ramirez and every other swinging #ic# Management brought in here without any regard to the media scrutiny and the hefty contracts given out to players over the age of thirty. Its a complete joke!

 

Now, is it salvageable? Yes it is, but the approach needed is to rid this team of the under performers. Dump Porcello who clears a spot for Castillo ( to pair with JBJ and better bench depth) and find a third starter to finish out the season. Porcello allows to many home runs per 9 to be counted on in a playoff run. I'll take my chances with Sale ERod and wright if need be.

 

As constituted this Starting Pitching staff will not win you a Series.

 

How bout machine gun tonight vs Washington. Another run allowed another kimbrel bailout in the 8th!

 

Your posts are totally devoid of logic, like a box of scrabble letters. I was going to try to debate what you presented, but there is really no point to it since you presented no facts to support what you wrote, just opinions. Keep in mind that not all opinions are created equal.

[reYoukilis]

Ive been saying this since they let Lester and Lackey go for Peanuts! Better watch out with your assessment, all these pink hats on this board will crucify you...

Yankees sure looked happy and comfortable last night. Yanks kicked our butts the first night and awesomely we turned the tables...and then came game 3. That was just plain wrong any way you slice it. Screw the numbers

[Slasher9]

The fact is and the facts are undisputed,

Price is a bust and right up there with Sandoval Crawford Renteria Craig Ramirez and every other swinging #ic# Management brought in here without any regard to the media scrutiny and the hefty contracts given out to players over the age of thirty. Its a complete joke!

 

Now, is it salvageable? Yes it is, but the approach needed is to rid this team of the under performers. Dump Porcello who clears a spot for Castillo ( to pair with JBJ and better bench depth) and find a third starter to finish out the season. Porcello allows to many home runs per 9 to be counted on in a playoff run. I'll take my chances with Sale ERod and wright if need be.

 

As constituted this Starting Pitching staff will not win you a Series.

 

How bout machine gun tonight vs Washington. Another run allowed another kimbrel bailout in the 8th!

I’m not sure you understand baseball. You may want to try another sport like volleyball or bowling....

[notin]

I’m not sure you understand baseball. You may want to try another sport like volleyball or bowling....

 

I wouldn't recommend anything more complicated than tag or catch...

[jacksonianmarch]

Pomeranz looked rusty today. Do we keep Johnson in the rotation for another start?

 

Pomeranz is hurt far worse than he is letting on. His season will end due to the business end of a scalpel.

[a700hitter]

I’m not sure you understand baseball. You may want to try another sport like volleyball or bowling....

Random Bowling for Dollars.

[Kimmi]

Pomeranz is hurt far worse than he is letting on. His season will end due to the business end of a scalpel.

 

Ha. Thanks for this post.

 

Pom will now come back and pitch like an ace.

[a700hitter]

And yet he does not 'choke' in big games when pitching from the pen.

A player isn’t necessarily a choker or clutch. He can be both. Sometimes they choke, and at other times they are clutch. It is not just randomness of performance. Boswell has written extensively about the phenomenon of choking in golf. And you will not find a single golfer to deny that choking exists. They have all experienced it, except that it is suspected that Nicklaus never choked. Here is one of Bosell’s many articles about choking:

 

http://www.sportspsychotherapycenter.com/Boswell.htm

[Spudboy]

Pomeranz is hurt far worse than he is letting on. His season will end due to the business end of a scalpel.

 

He got lit-up big time last night. Something like 4 or 5 earned runs in 2 2/3 innings.

[Kimmi]

A player isn’t necessarily a choker or clutch. He can be both. Sometimes they choke, and at other times they are clutch. It is not just randomness of performance. Boswell has written extensively about the phenomenon of choking in golf. And you will not find a single golfer to deny that choking exists. They have all experienced it, except that it is suspected that Nicklaus never choked. Here is one of Bosell’s many articles about choking:

 

http://www.sportspsychotherapycenter.com/Boswell.htm

 

To my knowledge, no one has ever denied the existence 'choke' or 'clutch' performances or plays.

 

I believe that there are absolutely players who cannot handle the pressure (chokers). I also believe that those players either do not make it to the big leagues or do not last very long if they do. I do not believe that Price is a choker.

 

What I am denying is the concept of 'clutch' being a sustainable and repeatable skill, in terms of the ability to raise one's game to the next level in high pressure situations. Players who appear to be clutch are simply great players to begin with.

 

If you want to define clutch as the ability not to choke, which many people seem on board with, then I can live with that. But in that case, I would say all major leaguers are clutch.

[Maxbialystock]

A player isn’t necessarily a choker or clutch. He can be both. Sometimes they choke, and at other times they are clutch. It is not just randomness of performance. Boswell has written extensively about the phenomenon of choking in golf. And you will not find a single golfer to deny that choking exists. They have all experienced it, except that it is suspected that Nicklaus never choked. Here is one of Bosell’s many articles about choking:

 

http://www.sportspsychotherapycenter.com/Boswell.htm

 

Didn't read the Boswell article, but what you say makes sense.

 

I frankly think pitching is just plain hard to do well on the best of days. You are using your arm to close to the limit of what it's capable of--to the degree that you can only do it every five days to avoid serious injury. On top of that you need to impart various spins to the ball and hit a very small target--smaller than any reputable knife thrower would even consider given the distance (66 feet).

 

Kelly is a great example fresh in our minds. He actually has a pretty darn good repertoire, especially for a reliever: blazing fastball, curve, slider, and changeup. In other stints this year he has been pretty darn good. But last night once again his 99-100 fastball got hammered (for a solo dinger by Harper to cut the lead to 4-3), and he had to rely on his breaking stuff and did get 2 outs, but was pulled--justifiably--after giving up the walk. In comes super closer Kimbrel, who struggles to get the final 4 outs, the last one on a very hard hit ball that went straight to Benintendi.

 

Now flash back to the first six innings last night when Porcello had to face that same lineup not once but three times and you begin to understand just how hard it is to be a good starter in MLB and why the best ones get paid so much.

Edited July 3, 2018 by Maxbialystock

[Maxbialystock]

Back to the rotation. One month ago I thought we had the second best rotation in MLB after the Astros. Now I have my doubts. Sale is still great. The new Porcello ain't great, but is a decent to good #3. Price, however, seems to be slipping and ERod is slipping even faster. Wright has been fantastic except for his last start, but he is on the DL.

[Bellhorn04]

To my knowledge, no one has ever denied the existence 'choke' or 'clutch' performances or plays.

 

I believe that there are absolutely players who cannot handle the pressure (chokers). I also believe that those players either do not make it to the big leagues or do not last very long if they do. I do not believe that Price is a choker.

 

What I am denying is the concept of 'clutch' being a sustainable and repeatable skill, in terms of the ability to raise one's game to the next level in high pressure situations. Players who appear to be clutch are simply great players to begin with.

 

If you want to define clutch as the ability not to choke, which many people seem on board with, then I can live with that. But in that case, I would say all major leaguers are clutch.

 

I wouldn't call Price a choker. But I think he does have some significant negative baggage in his head and that it might affect him. I think it might have affected him Sunday night. How can we really know one way or the other?

[MADSTORK]

Your posts are totally devoid of logic, like a box of scrabble letters. I was going to try to debate what you presented, but there is really no point to it since you presented no facts to support what you wrote, just opinions. Keep in mind that not all opinions are created equal.

 

 

Not enough SP to win a ring. All the pitching money is tied up in Triple AAA, the Dominican, San Fran and Priceless. Sale on pace for another 200 plus IP, Porcello HR rate climbing as it was last year, ERod is a 5 inning pitcher.... I quote the words of the great Terry Francona, "Good Luck"

[Bellhorn04]

Back to the rotation. One month ago I thought we had the second best rotation in MLB after the Astros. Now I have my doubts. Sale is still great. The new Porcello ain't great, but is a decent to good #3. Price, however, seems to be slipping and ERod is slipping even faster. Wright has been fantastic except for his last start, but he is on the DL.

 

Price had a great stretch until Sunday night.

 

moon is right, you are reacting to one or two-game samples.

[MADSTORK]

I wouldn't call Price a choker. But I think he does have some significant negative baggage in his head and that it might affect him. I think it might have affected him Sunday night. How can we really know one way or the other?

 

 

Why dance around the issues like the pink hat and liberals do? Call it like you see it, Price is a bust ! Its that simple

[OH FOY]

He got lit-up big time last night. Something like 4 or 5 earned runs in 2 2/3 innings.

 

What's concerning is he got hit hard by the worst hitting team in the International League. Rochester. .227 as a team.

[Bellhorn04]

Not enough SP to win a ring. All the pitching money is tied up in Triple AAA, the Dominican, San Fran and Priceless. Sale on pace for another 200 plus IP, Porcello HR rate climbing as it was last year, ERod is a 5 inning pitcher.... I quote the words of the great Terry Francona, "Good Luck"

 

Porcello's HR rate is fine. He's on the same HR pace as in 2016, his Cy Young season, and much better than last year.

 

You're grasping at straws. But that's what trolls do.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

We can all speculate on chocking and clutch, but one thing is certain, the SOX own the NL. There's no way to explain this phenomenon other than the fact it's been going on for a long time.