Sox starting pitching thread

[d-money]

The problem you run into when you say the Sox need to win in the ALDS, is that it cheapens the regular season you’re having. Not every team makes the post season. Being on par for a third straight appearance ain’t a bad thing

 

No it doesn’t. You think in New York they would be happy if the Yankees go out in the divisional round? It would be a wasted season. This team has been to the playoffs the last two seasons and gotten one win. It’s still all about the postseason.

[Kimmi]

No it doesn’t. You think in New York they would be happy if the Yankees go out in the divisional round? It would be a wasted season. This team has been to the playoffs the last two seasons and gotten one win. It’s still all about the postseason.

 

You build a team to get to the postseason. That's the main goal because the playoffs are largely a crapshoot. Of course fans will be disappointed if their team loses in the divisional round, but that doesn't mean the season was a failure.

[moonslav59]

You build a team to get to the postseason. That's the main goal because the playoffs are largely a crapshoot. Of course fans will be disappointed if their team loses in the divisional round, but that doesn't mean the season was a failure.

 

I agree, but 3 years in a row would certainly feel like failure, especially in light of how much of the future we traded away to win it all in this 4 year window. This is year 3, and time is ticking.

[notin]

I agree, but 3 years in a row would certainly feel like failure, especially in light of how much of the future we traded away to win it all in this 4 year window. This is year 3, and time is ticking.

 

 

Which is one of two problems with these "sell the future for the present" team philosophies. The other is thst eventually the future will get here.

 

There is no way any GM can guarantee success. The best he can do is influence his team towards or against it...

[jacksonianmarch]

Yeah, but how many GM’s can say they took a two time defending last place team and in one offseason, put them into the playoffs and won the division twice in a row.

 

It’s always a temptation as a GM to get the shiny object that your team needs regardless of cost. DD has been known for the splashy move. He doesn’t ever seem to get the reasonable option, it’s always the best or nothing and he’s willing to pay for it. For the Sox, it’s worked out. That being said, I think he was pushed into that direction by management. If Henry wasn’t so impatient and allowed the Sox to stockpile their system like the Yankees did, he’d have created a pipeline of talent that would be sustainable.

[Spudboy]

I agree, but 3 years in a row would certainly feel like failure, especially in light of how much of the future we traded away to win it all in this 4 year window. This is year 3, and time is ticking.

 

Yeah and it is really no honor to be a sort of Buffalo Bills of baseball.

[moonslav59]

Which is one of two problems with these "sell the future for the present" team philosophies. The other is thst eventually the future will get here.

 

There is no way any GM can guarantee success. The best he can do is influence his team towards or against it...

 

So true.

 

One good thing I liked about this "window" idea was that it should be 4-5 years in length. Several GMs have done similar things for a 1-2 year window.

Edited June 17, 2018 by moonslav59

[jacksonianmarch]

Exactly. DD timed it to coincide with the cheap years of your young stars. His timing was solid. I just question the wisdom of such a move in the current structure of the MLB salary cap. Gone are the days where the Yankees and Sox can just outspend everyone to their hearts delight

[moonslav59]

Exactly. DD timed it to coincide with the cheap years of your young stars. His timing was solid. I just question the wisdom of such a move in the current structure of the MLB salary cap. Gone are the days where the Yankees and Sox can just outspend everyone to their hearts delight

 

If we stay $39M over the limit year after year, we can probably stay a winning team, even after the window slams shut, but remaining highly competitive is going to be tough by 2020 or 2021.

[jacksonianmarch]

Exactly. You’ll run into the standard conundrum of keeping the band alive even when the cost to do so doesn’t make sense. We saw it in NY. It took some ridiculous GM work to get us out of that hole, but it took 2013-2016 to rebuild even though we did have one token wild card playoff game and 3 yrs of barely above .500

baseball. You need to continue to have talent coming through the system. If you deal it all off, you won’t be able to sustain anything

[S5Dewey]

Exactly. You’ll run into the standard conundrum of keeping the band alive even when the cost to do so doesn’t make sense. We saw it in NY. It took some ridiculous GM work to get us out of that hole, but it took 2013-2016 to rebuild even though we did have one token wild card playoff game and 3 yrs of barely above .500

baseball. You need to continue to have talent coming through the system. If you deal it all off, you won’t be able to sustain anything

 

Which brings us back around to what Bill James said 20 or so years ago. To paraphrase it, Free Agency will benefit teams that know how to manage it. The way to manage it is to draft wisely and try to keep the pipeline filled with quality players knowing that not all of them will pan out. Then use Free Agency to fill the holes. Teams that try to build teams completely through Free Agency will have some short term success but they'll eventually fail because they'll strangle themselves under the weight of increased FA salaries.

[moonslav59]

Which brings us back around to what Bill James said 20 or so years ago. To paraphrase it, Free Agency will benefit teams that know how to manage it. The way to manage it is to draft wisely and try to keep the pipeline filled with quality players knowing that not all of them will pan out. Then use Free Agency to fill the holes. Teams that try to build teams completely through Free Agency will have some short term success but they'll eventually fail because they'll strangle themselves under the weight of increased FA salaries.

 

Another downside to continually signing big free agents is that you don't ever have a down year where you get higher draft picks.

 

I doubt the Sox ever have a fire sale under DD like we did with the AGon/Crawford/Beckett deal or the Lester/Lackey/Peavy/Miller/Doubront sell off. You have to have a losing season to make that choice.

 

The Yanks made a very strategic choice to deal some talent, and they maximized the return for the most part.

 

They may not have signed as many big ticket FAs as the Sox recently, but the Stanton trade was like a big signing.

 

The one thing the Yankees rebuilding effort does show is that it is possible to stay somewhat competitive while you rebuild, and that it takes some serious risk-taking to make it happen.

 

I'm not sure, if DD would ever have the balls to trade off top talent, even during a down year. It seems like a problem we have, and it's hard to view winning as a problem, is that we may not reach a sell-off period until 2020. By then, many of our big return players will be gone or re-upped at massive contractual costs and won't be tradable/

[Kimmi]

I agree, but 3 years in a row would certainly feel like failure, especially in light of how much of the future we traded away to win it all in this 4 year window. This is year 3, and time is ticking.

 

Well, I agree to an extent, which is why I am strongly opposed to the 'win now at any cost' philosophy.

[Kimmi]

Which is one of two problems with these "sell the future for the present" team philosophies. The other is thst eventually the future will get here.

 

There is no way any GM can guarantee success. The best he can do is influence his team towards or against it...

 

Ding! Ding! Ding!

[Kimmi]

Yeah, but how many GM’s can say they took a two time defending last place team and in one offseason, put them into the playoffs and won the division twice in a row.

 

It’s always a temptation as a GM to get the shiny object that your team needs regardless of cost. DD has been known for the splashy move. He doesn’t ever seem to get the reasonable option, it’s always the best or nothing and he’s willing to pay for it. For the Sox, it’s worked out. That being said, I think he was pushed into that direction by management. If Henry wasn’t so impatient and allowed the Sox to stockpile their system like the Yankees did, he’d have created a pipeline of talent that would be sustainable.

 

Except that the team was getting to the playoffs and likely winning the division regardless of Dombrowski's moves. Those two last place finishes were flukes. The team was primed before Dombrowski stepped foot in Boston.

[kenmeister]

With Wright now in the rotation and Pomeranz out, the rotation has been excellent.

[SoxHop]

With Wright now in the rotation and Pomeranz out, the rotation has been excellent.

 

I look forward to every dang start by every dang pitcher we have. These guys rock.

[Larry Cook]

I would love to see Pomeranz get his mojo back as you know we are going to need him at some point between now and late October.

[Emp9]

I would love to see Pomeranz get his mojo back as you know we are going to need him at some point between now and late October.

 

Eh, I’m not so convinced. Can we trade Pom to sure-up our BP? (Asking for a ... friend?) lol

[jacksonianmarch]

Without Price and Kimbrel , you don’t win the ALE in 2016. Price wasn’t an ace, but those 200+ IP were clutch for your club. Kimbrel provides a lock down closer after some struggles on the back end when Moji’s body started to break down.

[kenmeister]

Eh, I’m not so convinced. Can we trade Pom to sure-up our BP? (Asking for a ... friend?) lol

 

Me neither. The current 5 are more than enough to handle the postseason. And I'm still high on the other 3 (Johnson, Velazquez, Beeks). Sometimes people have a great season, like Pomeranz did last year, but can never follow it up again.

[Dojji]

Before you trade Pom for bullpen help, remember that he's been useful in the bullpen himself. If he can reach back and add some of the velocity he's lost while pacing himself, if restricted to short outings, I'd expect him to be a dangerous LHRP

[notin]

Eh, I’m not so convinced. Can we trade Pom to sure-up our BP? (Asking for a ... friend?) lol

 

Maybe move Pomeranz to the bullpen?

[Emp9]

I’m well aware of his past BP experience. I question his effectiveness anywhere right now.

[notin]

I’m well aware of his past BP experience. I question his effectiveness anywhere right now.

 

So.. shouldn't any GM you're hoping to deal him to for bullpen help feel the same way? Bear in mind, there is no next year for a GM in a trade here...

[Emp9]

So.. shouldn't any GM you're hoping to deal him to for bullpen help feel the same way? Bear in mind, there is no next year for a GM in a trade here...

 

That is the age old quagmire. Of course your opinion is obvisiously different than mine. It would require a difference of opinion. They do exist.

[Larry Cook]

Maybe move Pomeranz to the bullpen?

 

If he gets right and adds some mph to his fastball, he could be a huge addition to the pen.

 

But again he has to be right in order for that to work and he has not been right since the injury in spring training.

[Jack Flap]

Alex Speier @alexspeier

Steven Wright (knee) to the DL. Justin Haley recalled from AAA.

 

 

Well that's not good.

[a700hitter]

Alex Speier @alexspeier

Steven Wright (knee) to the DL. Justin Haley recalled from AAA.

 

 

Well that's not good.

How close is Pon to being ready?

[a700hitter]

Alex Speier @alexspeier

Steven Wright (knee) to the DL. Justin Haley recalled from AAA.

 

 

Well that's not good.

At least we can’t blame this injury on Farrell. That’s a good thing. I guess.