Hanley DFA’d

[notin]

Short answer: yes it does. RS has to pay the difference between what the new team pays and what the contract was, and all they have to pay counts against the luxury tax. Pablo's number definitely counts, and so will everything owed Hanley (including the next year, depending on what happens with the vesting option that we've been discussing in various ways here.)

 

Pablo was DFA'd and removed from the 40-man roster. I thought that had luxury tax ramifications at the time, since it was prior to the new CBA...

[moonslav59]

Imagine if Castillo's contract counted against the luxury budget!

 

We'd be over the $40M limit this year and would be looking at going over again next year, unless we didn't sign Moreland and Nunez or traded some salary away.

[a700hitter]

While probably true, nearly all of them have hired people to care about their contracts...

And they don't get paid to represent Hanley, so I doubt that they care either.

[oldtimer]

Imagine if Castillo's contract counted against the luxury budget!

 

We'd be over the $40M limit this year and would be looking at going over again next year, unless we didn't sign Moreland and Nunez or traded some salary away.

 

I was not a lawyer by profession so I have trouble understanding how one salary is covered by the competitive balance tax while another is not. In Pablo's case, I forget if we traded him and agreed to pay the difference in his salary or we outright DFAed him. He was on the roster when we guaranteed him the money but was essentially fired if we DFAed him.

 

Hanley looks like he has been DFAed and was on the roster. He might yet get picked up by a club so there may be some cost picked up by the new club, otherwise we owe him the money even though he will not be on our roster.

 

Rusney was on our roster for a while and was at the time we gave him the big long term contract but we took him off the 40 man so somehow his case is different and his salary doesn't count under the competitive balance tax.

 

So, I guess I am missing the distinction between the two cases here. Both were on the roster at some point after the contracts were given and both are now off the 40 man team but two count against our competitive balance tax while one does not.

 

A little confusing. I know it says that in the Sox payroll disclosure but I don't get the distinction.

[vegasbob]

I was not a lawyer by profession so I have trouble understanding how one salary is covered by the competitive balance tax while another is not. In Pablo's case, I forget if we traded him and agreed to pay the difference in his salary or we outright DFAed him. He was on the roster when we guaranteed him the money but was essentially fired if we DFAed him.

 

Hanley looks like he has been DFAed and was on the roster. He might yet get picked up by a club so there may be some cost picked up by the new club, otherwise we owe him the money even though he will not be on our roster.

 

Rusney was on our roster for a while and was at the time we gave him the big long term contract but we took him off the 40 man so somehow his case is different and his salary doesn't count under the competitive balance tax.

 

So, I guess I am missing the distinction between the two cases here. Both were on the roster at some point after the contracts were given and both are now off the 40 man team but two count against our competitive balance tax while one does not.

 

A little confusing. I know it says that in the Sox payroll disclosure but I don't get the distinction.

 

Not 100% positive but I think the difference is that Castillo, not on the 40 man roster, could be signed by another team , probably for no compensation, if they will pick up his contract balance. Sandoval and Ramirez balance dues count towards luxury tax because they were protected by the 40 man inclusion and are owed their contract sums. Baseball needs NFL type contracts where a cut player only gets the current year of a non guaranteed portion of the contract.

[Bellhorn04]

Not 100% positive but I think the difference is that Castillo, not on the 40 man roster, could be signed by another team , probably for no compensation, if they will pick up his contract balance. Sandoval and Ramirez balance dues count towards luxury tax because they were protected by the 40 man inclusion and are owed their contract sums. Baseball needs NFL type contracts where a cut player only gets the current year of a non guaranteed portion of the contract.

 

I don't really have a problem with the baseball system and all the guaranteed money, in spite of how much of it the Sox have had to eat. You pays your money and you takes your chances. If you make a bad choice or an unlucky one, it hurts you.

[moonslav59]

Not 100% positive but I think the difference is that Castillo, not on the 40 man roster, could be signed by another team , probably for no compensation, if they will pick up his contract balance. Sandoval and Ramirez balance dues count towards luxury tax because they were protected by the 40 man inclusion and are owed their contract sums. Baseball needs NFL type contracts where a cut player only gets the current year of a non guaranteed portion of the contract.

 

They changed the rule based on what happened to Castillo, but his case is grandfathered.

 

He's not on the 40 man roster, so his contract does not count, but if we add him, it will count, even if they remove him from the 40 man roster later.

 

[Youk Of The Nation]

So I think we should start taking bets on which sub-.500 team with no recognizable names will sign Hanley hoping he either produces a little better than the rest of their club, or at least puts a few extra asses in the seats. Marlins? The Orioles? White Sox? Cincinnati? The Padres, where Don Orsillo can once again get way too excited about a HR in the middle of a game with a 10 run differential?! I've got 20 bucks that says he goes back to Miami.

[jacksonianmarch]

The difference is that Rusney signed as an “amateur” and didn’t have the same stipulations that the other guys have. If Rusney chose FA, he’d forfeit the contract. The other guys, not the same

[moonslav59]

So I think we should start taking bets on which sub-.500 team with no recognizable names will sign Hanley hoping he either produces a little better than the rest of their club, or at least puts a few extra asses in the seats. Marlins? The Orioles? White Sox? Cincinnati? The Padres, where Don Orsillo can once again get way too excited about a HR in the middle of a game with a 10 run differential?! I've got 20 bucks that says he goes back to Miami.

 

The Astros havs a .718 DH OPS this year.

 

I could see them getting him.

[FredLynn]

The Astros havs a .718 DH OPS this year.

 

I could see them getting him.

 

I don't see it. They are playing well and are the reigning champs. Why would they want someone like Hanley in the clubhouse? He can be a bit disruptive at times with his antics.

[jad]

And they don't get paid to represent Hanley, so I doubt that they care either.

 

I worked for a company where this attitude was widespread: "Don't worry, that doesn't affect us, only that other division ..." But my view was always "we might be next." I would imagine that various agents are deeply concerned with what happens to Hanley, since it will serve as a precedent for what might happen to their own clients. And I would think the Players' Association feels the same way, since if there is a grey area there (and we seem to agree that we don't know for certain whether there is or not!), they'll want it addressed.

[mvp 78]

So I think we should start taking bets on which sub-.500 team with no recognizable names will sign Hanley hoping he either produces a little better than the rest of their club, or at least puts a few extra asses in the seats. Marlins? The Orioles? White Sox? Cincinnati? The Padres, where Don Orsillo can once again get way too excited about a HR in the middle of a game with a 10 run differential?! I've got 20 bucks that says he goes back to Miami.

 

He does really sound like a typical O's signing. Too bad they already have Trumbo at DH.

 

I'm saying the Royals sign him.

[moonslav59]

I don't see it. They are playing well and are the reigning champs. Why would they want someone like Hanley in the clubhouse? He can be a bit disruptive at times with his antics.

 

What antics?

[a700hitter]

I worked for a company where this attitude was widespread: "Don't worry, that doesn't affect us, only that other division ..." But my view was always "we might be next." I would imagine that various agents are deeply concerned with what happens to Hanley, since it will serve as a precedent for what might happen to their own clients. And I would think the Players' Association feels the same way, since if there is a grey area there (and we seem to agree that we don't know for certain whether there is or not!), they'll want it addressed.

The agent community should already know how these options work and they know that Hanley is represented by an able agent. They don't care.

[oldtimer]

I worked for a company where this attitude was widespread: "Don't worry, that doesn't affect us, only that other division ..." But my view was always "we might be next." I would imagine that various agents are deeply concerned with what happens to Hanley, since it will serve as a precedent for what might happen to their own clients. And I would think the Players' Association feels the same way, since if there is a grey area there (and we seem to agree that we don't know for certain whether there is or not!), they'll want it addressed.

 

I believe the option was set up with the expectation that the player performance had to meet reasonable levels to have it vest. Clearly, Hanley had not done the job and the club probably saw other signs that he was not going to improve, so they made the important decision. Those signs were not going to be talked about since the legal eagles would have some fodder to use in a suit.

[jad]

The agent community should already know how these options work and they know that Hanley is represented by an able agent. They don't care.

 

OK. I'll take your word for it. And true, where I worked most of my colleagues didn't give a rat's ass when someone got f'ed over, for the very reason that it didn't affect them directly and they believed they themselves (and they alone) knew everything they needed to know about their job.

[a700hitter]

OK. I'll take your word for it. And true, where I worked most of my colleagues didn't give a rat's ass when someone got f'ed over, for the very reason that it didn't affect them directly and they believed they themselves (and they alone) knew everything they needed to know about their job.

And I am sure that it was a workplace that was very similar to the high paid high finance world that is major league baseball. Of course, each of the workers at your was represented by highly compensated license professional agents and attorneys, so it was certainly a very good comparison.

[Slasher9]

I don't see it. They are playing well and are the reigning champs. Why would they want someone like Hanley in the clubhouse? He can be a bit disruptive at times with his antics.

 

Give me one example of how he was disruptive with his antics

[moonslav59]

Give me one example of how he was disruptive with his antics

 

I guess, for some, dreads = antics.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

It is amazing how little they have missed Hanley so far. When you have a WAR of 0 (approximately), an OPS+ of 88, and you can't run or field, that kind of player doesn't belong in the major leagues anyway. Hanley will be hard pressed to find a team willing to add him to the roster at league minimum. Maybe some team gives him a shot, but if he doesn't produce right away, he is probably released again. Edited May 30, 2018 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Fan_since_Boggs]

The Astros havs a .718 DH OPS this year.

 

I could see them getting him.

 

That's the one team I was thinking about. Problem is, I doubt they can carry both Hanley and Gattis on the same roster and there is no good reason to dump Gattis from the roster to make room for Hanley.

[jad]

And I am sure that it was a workplace that was very similar to the high paid high finance world that is major league baseball. Of course, each of the workers at your was represented by highly compensated license professional agents and attorneys, so it was certainly a very good comparison.

 

Oh. You're right again. I forgot we were on an ESPN board momentarily, and actually thought we were trying to have a civil conversation. My bad.

[jad]

I guess, for some, dreads = antics.

 

Yeah, you know . First it's dreads, and the next thing you know, they'll be playing that all that out-of-tune music, having sex, and smoking funny cigarettes.

[moonslav59]

That's the one team I was thinking about. Problem is, I doubt they can carry both Hanley and Gattis on the same roster and there is no good reason to dump Gattis from the roster to make room for Hanley.

 

True, but Guriel is off to a bad start, so maybe HRam could see a little time at 1B, too.

[FredLynn]

I guess, for some, dreads = antics.

 

You know Moon, I like you. But what you implied is that I am a racist, and while I think every one of us has a little racism inside that needs to be acknowledged and resisted, my comment about Hanley had nothing to do with the color of his skin or how he combs his hair. Read this:

 

"BOSTON (CBS) – Hanley Ramirez came with a “buyer beware” label, and apparently some members of the Red Sox are getting annoyed with his act.

 

Jeff Passan of Yahoo! Sports wrote in his latest column that Ramirez’s attitude “has irked some respected members of the Red Sox’s clubhouse.”

 

Passan came on 98.5 The Sports Hub’s Zolak & Bertrand show on Monday to provide more details on Ramirez’s antics, which are nothing new to anybody that’s covered him.

 

“What’s going on with Hanley Ramirez is the same thing that’s gone on with Hanley Ramirez when he was in the minor leagues with the Red Sox, the same thing that’s gone on with Hanley Ramirez in the major leagues while with the Marlins, and the same thing that happened last year with the Dodgers,” Passan said.

 

“His effort bothers people, and his seeming lack of effort sometimes [bothers people]. Some days he looks like Manny Ramirez, and other days he looks like Sam Horn; just an out of shape, can’t-hit-very-well Red Sox. It’s the inconsistency that bothers people,” Passan added.

 

Speaking to that inconsistency, his 2015 season is so far a perfect example of that.

 

Ramirez came out of the gates as hot as can be, batting .293 while slugging 10 home runs and 22 RBI in the month of April. In the month of May he hit .235 and drove in just 5 RBI. Ramirez is having a much better June, batting .308 with 3 home runs and 10 RBI.

 

Red Sox fans — and apparently his teammates too — hope Ramirez’s production can be more reliable over the next three and a half seasons.

 

“Hanley Ramirez could be one of the best players in baseball year in and year out, I think, if the effort was there all the time and the attitude was right. But he’s gotten out of shape and he hasn’t grown up still. The fact that he’s 30 years old now and is still at that point where he’s having the same maturity problems when he was younger bothers a lot of people,” Passan said.

 

The Red Sox, 31-40, are still last in the American League East, but just took two out of three from the AL All-Star Team Kansas City Royals. Things are still bad, but at least they are starting to show glimpses of what they could be if they could just put it altogether.

 

As bad as things are it’s still not the Bobby Valentine season in 2012, so according to Passan the Red Sox won’t be blowing up the roster anytime soon.

 

“Blowing this team up just doesn’t make sense. The Red Sox have a massive advantage because they are a cash cow. The sellout streak is over, but they still make a lot of money. As long as you’re making money you can paper over the mistakes,” Passan said.

 

Adding, “You don’t have to sell off guys like [Pablo] Sandoval and Hanley Ramirez unless they become such a problem in the clubhouse that things can’t exist for them anymore. You know what takes cares of that though? Winning. And the Red Sox have a foundation in place to win ballgames.”"

[a700hitter]

Oh. You're right again. I forgot we were on an ESPN board momentarily, and actually thought we were trying to have a civil conversation. My bad.

If your weren't being snarky with the post to which i replied, i retract my snarky response.

[moonslav59]

You know Moon, I like you. But what you implied is that I am a racist, and while I think every one of us has a little racism inside that needs to be acknowledged and resisted, my comment about Hanley had nothing to do with the color of his skin or how he combs his hair. Read this:

 

"BOSTON (CBS) – Hanley Ramirez came with a “buyer beware” label, and apparently some members of the Red Sox are getting annoyed with his act.

 

Jeff Passan of Yahoo! Sports wrote in his latest column that Ramirez’s attitude “has irked some respected members of the Red Sox’s clubhouse.”

 

Passan came on 98.5 The Sports Hub’s Zolak & Bertrand show on Monday to provide more details on Ramirez’s antics, which are nothing new to anybody that’s covered him.

 

“What’s going on with Hanley Ramirez is the same thing that’s gone on with Hanley Ramirez when he was in the minor leagues with the Red Sox, the same thing that’s gone on with Hanley Ramirez in the major leagues while with the Marlins, and the same thing that happened last year with the Dodgers,” Passan said.

 

“His effort bothers people, and his seeming lack of effort sometimes [bothers people]. Some days he looks like Manny Ramirez, and other days he looks like Sam Horn; just an out of shape, can’t-hit-very-well Red Sox. It’s the inconsistency that bothers people,” Passan added.

 

Speaking to that inconsistency, his 2015 season is so far a perfect example of that.

 

Ramirez came out of the gates as hot as can be, batting .293 while slugging 10 home runs and 22 RBI in the month of April. In the month of May he hit .235 and drove in just 5 RBI. Ramirez is having a much better June, batting .308 with 3 home runs and 10 RBI.

 

Red Sox fans — and apparently his teammates too — hope Ramirez’s production can be more reliable over the next three and a half seasons.

 

“Hanley Ramirez could be one of the best players in baseball year in and year out, I think, if the effort was there all the time and the attitude was right. But he’s gotten out of shape and he hasn’t grown up still. The fact that he’s 30 years old now and is still at that point where he’s having the same maturity problems when he was younger bothers a lot of people,” Passan said.

 

The Red Sox, 31-40, are still last in the American League East, but just took two out of three from the AL All-Star Team Kansas City Royals. Things are still bad, but at least they are starting to show glimpses of what they could be if they could just put it altogether.

 

As bad as things are it’s still not the Bobby Valentine season in 2012, so according to Passan the Red Sox won’t be blowing up the roster anytime soon.

 

“Blowing this team up just doesn’t make sense. The Red Sox have a massive advantage because they are a cash cow. The sellout streak is over, but they still make a lot of money. As long as you’re making money you can paper over the mistakes,” Passan said.

 

Adding, “You don’t have to sell off guys like [Pablo] Sandoval and Hanley Ramirez unless they become such a problem in the clubhouse that things can’t exist for them anymore. You know what takes cares of that though? Winning. And the Red Sox have a foundation in place to win ballgames.”"

 

This is all Passan's opinions. I see no quote from anyone on the Sox.

 

I'm not saying HRam is the perfect person- nobody is.

 

They guy obviously worked hard at getting in shape. You can see his muscle build-up since early in his career.

 

I never noticed any loafing.

 

Maybe you're right. Maybe we'll hear things weeks and months from now.

 

I do think people look at appearances and judge people. I do, too. I didn't mean to imply you are a racist, but I do think some people see dreads or tats and assume the worst- white or black skin.

[mvp 78]

“His effort bothers people, and his seeming lack of effort sometimes [bothers people]. Some days he looks like Manny Ramirez, and other days he looks like Sam Horn; just an out of shape, can’t-hit-very-well Red Sox. It’s the inconsistency that bothers people,” Passan added.

 

Speaking to that inconsistency, his 2015 season is so far a perfect example of that.

 

Ramirez came out of the gates as hot as can be, batting .293 while slugging 10 home runs and 22 RBI in the month of April. In the month of May he hit .235 and drove in just 5 RBI. Ramirez is having a much better June, batting .308 with 3 home runs and 10 RBI.

 

Red Sox fans — and apparently his teammates too — hope Ramirez’s production can be more reliable over the next three and a half seasons.

 

“Hanley Ramirez could be one of the best players in baseball year in and year out, I think, if the effort was there all the time and the attitude was right. But he’s gotten out of shape and he hasn’t grown up still. The fact that he’s 30 years old now and is still at that point where he’s having the same maturity problems when he was younger bothers a lot of people,” Passan said.

 

Adding, “You don’t have to sell off guys like [Pablo] Sandoval and Hanley Ramirez unless they become such a problem in the clubhouse that things can’t exist for them anymore. You know what takes cares of that though? Winning. And the Red Sox have a foundation in place to win ballgames.”"[/i]

 

Passan is an idiot. When was Hanley ever out of shape? I think the problem with Hanley was performance not "antics".

[FredLynn]

Passan is an idiot. When was Hanley ever out of shape? I think the problem with Hanley was performance not "antics".

 

Where there's smoke there's fire. Ramirez frequently made stupid mistakes on the basepaths (and yes, he had a lot of company) and at times his effort and his hustle were questionable. Those are the antics to which I am referring, and I backed up my opinion with that of a sports writer from Yahoo Sports. That lack of effort at times affected his performance, which is all I as a Sox fan really care about: the bottom line. Believe what you will.