Hanley DFA’d

[mvp 78]

Where there's smoke there's fire. Ramirez frequently made stupid mistakes on the basepaths (and yes, he had a lot of company) and at times his effort and his hustle were questionable. Those are the antics to which I am referring, and I backed up my opinion with that of a sports writer from Yahoo Sports. That lack of effort at times affected his performance, which is all I as a Sox fan really care about: the bottom line. Believe what you will.

 

Effort and hustle are rarely coined "antics". Why haven't you called out Beni for his "antics"?

[FredLynn]

Effort and hustle are rarely coined "antics". Why haven't you called out Beni for his "antics"?

 

I am calling them antics...so is Passan. You can label them however you like. I remember witnessing Ramirez running through stop signs by the 3B coach then getting thrown out by 20 feet at home, for example. Beni also makes dumb mistakes on the basepaths sometimes, but he is in his second full year with the team and he is still learning. Hanley is in his 12th full year and should have learned by now. Furthermore, I never see Beni not running out ground balls-ever. Ever see Hanley not run them out? That sort of thing too....lack of effort at times.

[mvp 78]

I am calling them antics...so is Passan. You can label them however you like. I remember witnessing Ramirez running through stop signs by the 3B coach then getting thrown out by 20 feet at home, for example. Beni also makes dumb mistakes on the basepaths sometimes, but he is in his second full year with the team and he is still learning. Hanley is in his 12th full year and should have learned by now. Furthermore, I never see Beni not running out ground balls-ever. Ever see Hanley not run them out? That sort of thing too....lack of effort at times.

 

Passan didn't use that term.

[FredLynn]

Passan didn't use that term.

 

Great. So it was Zolek and Bertrand that used the term. Call it whatever you like, Hanley has a reputation of being a polarizing figure in the clubhouse at times. His effort and hustle have been questionable, along with his focus, which leads to dumb mistakes. If he was producing none of it would matter to me, but when you are not focused and when you don't put forth the effort to succeed AND you are not producing, frankly, thats something I can do without on my team.

Edited May 30, 2018 by FredLynn

[mvp 78]

Great. So it was Zolek and Bertrand that used the term. Call it whatever you like, Hanley has a reputation of being a polarizing figure in the clubhouse at times. His effort and hustle have bee questionable, along with his focus, which leads to dumb mistakes. If he was producing none of it would matter to me, but when you are not focused and when you don't put forth the effort to succeed AND you are not producing, frankly, thats something I can do without on my team.

 

So DFA Beni since he makes a s*** ton of really dumb mistakes too?

[Bellhorn04]

Great. So it was Zolek and Bertrand that used the term. Call it whatever you like, Hanley has a reputation of being a polarizing figure in the clubhouse at times. His effort and hustle have been questionable, along with his focus, which leads to dumb mistakes. If he was producing none of it would matter to me, but when you are not focused and when you don't put forth the effort to succeed AND you are not producing, frankly, thats something I can do without on my team.

 

Even if the column by Passan was valid, it was from early in the 2015 season. The last few years the reports on Hanley seem to be nothing but positive. So that has to be taken into account too.

[illinoisredsox]

Truth is we (the fans) have absolutely no idea what happens in the clubhouse. Cora et.al. saw something or some things that raised some concerns. We’ll have to trust their insider judgement on what is/was best for the team.

[Bellhorn04]

Truth is we (the fans) have absolutely no idea what happens in the clubhouse. Cora et.al. saw something or some things that raised some concerns. We’ll have to trust their insider judgement on what is/was best for the team.

 

I refuse to believe a 22 million vesting option didn't have SOMETHING to do with it (combined with some very lackluster numbers after a promising start).

[cp176]

Ramirez is what a 13 year verteran who for the most has not had to sit down a whole lot. I don't care who it is, you sit a guy like this down for any stretch of time if he still feels that he can play and issues might arise. If this wasn't a concern that at least someone might have been thinking about, why wouldn't they just sit this happy little camper on the bench and use him every now and again in hopes that his magic might return. Not sure how he would have reacted if it became apparent that his option wasn't going to vest because he was sat but it is possible that it would not have been nicely. He was simply released which is what many here have been calling for. His release has nothing to do with what he looks like or the way he wears his hair or his particular life choices. Unbelieveable that that that garbage was even brought up.

[jad]

I am calling them antics...so is Passan. You can label them however you like. I remember witnessing Ramirez running through stop signs by the 3B coach then getting thrown out by 20 feet at home, for example. Beni also makes dumb mistakes on the basepaths sometimes, but he is in his second full year with the team and he is still learning. Hanley is in his 12th full year and should have learned by now. Furthermore, I never see Beni not running out ground balls-ever. Ever see Hanley not run them out? That sort of thing too....lack of effort at times.

 

You may well be right. The only lack of hustle I ever saw was when he was in LF--and I'm not sure that was a matter of hustle or simple competence--and then when he was on (I forget whom) and failed to retrieve the hit in left, sauntering out instead of running. But I'm seen nothing like that here (not saying it didn't exist--I've just not seen it. Once he had a regular position at first, he seemed much more involved). I love watching him hit, and I hope he catches on somewhere.

[cp176]

You may well be right. The only lack of hustle I ever saw was when he was in LF--and I'm not sure that was a matter of hustle or simple competence--and then when he was on (I forget whom) and failed to retrieve the hit in left, sauntering out instead of running. But I'm seen nothing like that here (not saying it didn't exist--I've just not seen it. Once he had a regular position at first, he seemed much more involved). I love watching him hit, and I hope he catches on somewhere.

 

 

I agree with you here. I was really hoping that we might catch a glimpse of what Hanley has accomplished in the past. Looked to me as though he was working out there as hard as anybody. I hope he does and think that he probably will catch on with somebody. Can't imagine why he wouldn't.

[jacksonianmarch]

Hanley was dealt partly to get Beckett and partly due to his immaturity and antics as a rookie. He didn’t suddenly stop them

[Spudboy]

This is all Passan's opinions. I see no quote from anyone on the Sox.

 

I'm not saying HRam is the perfect person- nobody is.

 

They guy obviously worked hard at getting in shape. You can see his muscle build-up since early in his career.

 

I never noticed any loafing.

 

Maybe you're right. Maybe we'll hear things weeks and months from now.

 

I do think people look at appearances and judge people. I do, too. I didn't mean to imply you are a racist, but I do think some people see dreads or tats and assume the worst- white or black skin.

 

You did not imply racism at all.

[Spudboy]

Hanley was dealt partly to get Beckett and partly due to his immaturity and antics as a rookie. He didn’t suddenly stop them

 

So?

[Spudboy]

Truth is we (the fans) have absolutely no idea what happens in the clubhouse. Cora et.al. saw something or some things that raised some concerns. We’ll have to trust their insider judgement on what is/was best for the team.

 

Nope.

 

Management saw that 22 mil option looming and wanted to make it go away.

 

Your assumption has little basis in known facts.

[FredLynn]

Even if the column by Passan was valid, it was from early in the 2015 season. The last few years the reports on Hanley seem to be nothing but positive. So that has to be taken into account too.

 

Generally you aren't going to hear about problems in the clubhouse until they are about to explode. Passan apparently knew something or he would not have written about it. Yes, its from 2015, but I admit I have to agree with Jacko.....a zebra doesn't lose his stripes. Furthermore, I watch the games. I saw Hanley not running hard to first base (no, he is not the only one-but some guys, like Pedroia, ALWAYS run hard). And his not paying attention to stop signs given by the 3B coach got old too. Its part of not giving the game your full attention when you are playing. Its fine when your OPS is .900, or even .800...but Ramirez wasn't contributing either. If I am not contributing at my job you better believe I am going to try my hardest to make SURE my superiors think I am doing my best. Hanley didn't do that.

And I DO believe the option was a major contributor to his being released.....only the blind cannot see that.

[mvp 78]

Passan is an idiot.

[illinoisredsox]

Nope.

 

Management saw that 22 mil option looming and wanted to make it go away.

 

Your assumption has little basis in known facts.

 

Of course the option was an overwhelmingly huge part of the decision. We (fans) have absolutely no idea what else if anything contributed to said decision and to what extent "else" was or was not a factor.

 

It is also a fact that fans know nothing of what really goes on in a clubhouse (which is what I was trying to say); those who think they do are delusional.

[moonslav59]

It was all about the $22M for 2019 and our need to pay to keep or replace impending free agents plus some hefty arb raises.

[FredLynn]

It was all about the $22M for 2019 and our need to pay to keep or replace impending free agents plus some hefty arb raises.

 

If Hanley was raking I do not think he would have been DFA'd. So part of it was performance related too. The rest of it we will never know about for sure, other than what we can observe watching the games.

[moonslav59]

If Hanley was raking I do not think he would have been DFA'd. So part of it was performance related too. The rest of it we will never know about for sure, other than what we can observe watching the games.

 

Yes, it would have been harder to DFA him or limit his PAs had he not went cold, but he was only cold for 18 games...18 games he still hit 3 HRs in.

 

Not many players who led their team in RBIs for a while get DFA'd over 18 games.

 

It was always about the $22M and looking for any excuse to get out of it.

[Hugh2]

the 22 Million was obviously a HUGE part of this and definitely central to the decision....but no way they DFA him if he was still raking. Why? that would literally make no sense, and even if plausible why not wait another 200 PAs?

 

the 22 Million become 100% relevant the moment he started to slump. At that point, the Sox decided they likely weren't getting much more out of Hanley, his 22 million could be better spent next year, and the roster spot could go towards a kid who still has talent in a system devoid of it.

[cp176]

We'll likely never get much more of a story than we have already gotten. I'm fine with that. If Hanley had been hitting for power, got to think he would still be here and playing most everyday. Don't think that Mr Henry was concerned at all about another 20+ million if it was translating in to a title.

[moonslav59]

Every player slumps. Only a few established players get DFA'd over a 17-18 game slump.

 

HRam was bound to have a slump at some point this year.

 

DD pounced at the first one for obvious reasons.

 

[Hugh2]

Every player slumps. Only a few established players get DFA'd over a 17-18 game slump.

 

HRam was bound to have a slump at some point this year.

 

DD pounced at the first one for obvious reasons.

 

 

I don't buy it, then why even start the season with him?

 

It obviously came down to the money but it couldn't all be about the money. Because if it was all about the money and not the slump then why not let him play it out and then release him when he gets closer?

 

Makes zero sense, this was about his play. And yes, the leash was much shorter because of the 22 million, that seems like the most logical explanation to me.

[SoxHop]

I don't buy it, then why even start the season with him?

 

It obviously came down to the money but it couldn't all be about the money. Because if it was all about the money and not the slump then why not let him play it out and then release him when he gets closer?

 

Makes zero sense, this was about his play. And yes, the leash was much shorter because of the 22 million, that seems like the most logical explanation to me.

 

This is the Sox...... don't catch you slippin now...

[moonslav59]

I don't buy it, then why even start the season with him?

 

It obviously came down to the money but it couldn't all be about the money. Because if it was all about the money and not the slump then why not let him play it out and then release him when he gets closer?

 

Makes zero sense, this was about his play. And yes, the leash was much shorter because of the 22 million, that seems like the most logical explanation to me.

 

They were worried about a grievance. They went out of their way to show they were giving him a chance- all the while waiting for a slump like the one he just had.

 

Of course, it took him having a slump, and that had to be part of the equation, but it's almost a sure bet any fair to mediocre player will have a slump at some point in the season. It was going to happen as soon as he slumped.

 

Yes, if he never slumped, things might have gone differently, but that was likely not going to happen. It was in the cards all along, IMO.

 

[FredLynn]

Every player slumps. Only a few established players get DFA'd over a 17-18 game slump.

 

HRam was bound to have a slump at some point this year.

 

DD pounced at the first one for obvious reasons.

 

 

It definitely had to do with his performance AND the option. Hanley stunk last year too....and he was headed in the same direction this year. If the Hanley of 2016 was performing he would still be on the team, option or no option.

[moonslav59]

It definitely had to do with his performance AND the option. Hanley stunk last year too....and he was headed in the same direction this year. If the Hanley of 2016 was performing he would still be on the team, option or no option.

 

That's a big if. He was bound to slump at some point. It just happened to be in May.

 

I agree. If he was still performing anywhere near like April, he'd still be here, but only until he slumped.

 

I was actually surprised they handed him the FT job on opening day. He hadn't "earned it", and Moreland was a better option vs RHPs due to his better defense and comparaable splits. When Hram started getting so many key hits, it was hard to not play him FT. I think this scared management into thinking that they might have to act at the first opportunity. had HRam built up an .800 OPD through 2-3 months, an 18 game slump would not have sunk his season numbers low enough to look legit.

 

We got lucky he slumped ealy and that his slumping didn't greatly affect our record.

[FredLynn]

That's a big if. He was bound to slump at some point. It just happened to be in May.

 

I agree. If he was still performing anywhere near like April, he'd still be here, but only until he slumped.

 

I was actually surprised they handed him the FT job on opening day. He hadn't "earned it", and Moreland was a better option vs RHPs due to his better defense and comparaable splits. When Hram started getting so many key hits, it was hard to not play him FT. I think this scared management into thinking that they might have to act at the first opportunity. had HRam built up an .800 OPD through 2-3 months, an 18 game slump would not have sunk his season numbers low enough to look legit.

 

We got lucky he slumped ealy and that his slumping didn't greatly affect our record.

 

I think we both agree that DFAing him was the desirable thing to do for the good of the team. Even if he was good this year the likelihood that he would be worth $22M next year was nearly zero. I wish him well, but I am glad the Sox didn't do anything stupid.