2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[Kimmi]

Nobody is doing that. But many people were calling him out for inaction (and worse) before the JD signing.

 

Some discussions were valid but there was a lot of nonsense being posted without any evidence. Simply go back a couple of weeks on the board and you'll see it.

 

You're a thoughtful poster and so there is no need to ask not to be lumped in as one because of any criticism you may have of DD. You wouldn't be.

 

Yeah, I suppose there were some pretty harsh words before the JD signing. Red Sox fans aren't necessarily the most patient group of people. LOL

Edited March 6, 2018 by Kimmi

[Kimmi]

I suspect that he would not be willing to sign a minor contract for short money.

 

He likes to wear a feed bag too much.

 

Lackey strikes me as someone who would never take a minor league deal. IMO, he'd retire instead.

[Kimmi]

So Ichiro is heading back to Seattle.

 

I think that is cool.

 

Imagine. He is 44 years old and still playing MLB.

 

I saw that too and also thought it was cool.

 

Cool for him and cool for the Seattle fans that he is returning.

[Nick]

It's now up to the players to earn their keep. DD has done his job.

[Kimmi]

It's now up to the players to earn their keep. DD has done his job.

 

So, if the Sox finish in last place, it is not Dombrowski's fault?

[Nick]

So, if the Sox finish in last place, it is not Dombrowski's fault?

 

Nope.

 

Are you unhappy with our 25 man roster? If so, speak up now.

 

Don't be a Monday morning quarterback.

 

Betts, Beni, Xander, JD, Devers, Hanley, Pedey, Vazquez, JBJ with Moreland, Nunez, Swihart and Leon.

Sale, Price, Porcello, Pom and E Rod (Johnson)

Kimbrel, Carson, Barnes, Kelly, Scott, Hembree, Workman

 

Are you seriously going to blame DD for this roster not winning?

Edited March 7, 2018 by Nick

[Emp9]

Lynn will probably still command a multi-year deal.

 

Lynn turned down the Twins’ 2yrs@$20M, called it a non-starter. And he’d be right. Can’t blame him for that.

[moonslav59]

when calculating future payroll costs, keep in mind there are going to be pretty big arbitration jumps the next couple years.

 

Here's a look at our arb players and what arb year it is....

 

2017 Salary and next winter's arb year

$10.5M Betts 2 of 3

$7.05M Bogey 3 of 3

$6.10M JBJ 3 of 4

$2.38M ERod 2 of 4

$2.23M Holt 3 of 3

$2.05M Thornburg 3 of 3

$1.95M S Leon 3 of 4

$1.43M Vazquez 2 of 3

$1.10M Wright 2 of 3

$850K C Smith 2 of 3

$835M Workman 2 of 3

1 of 3: Elias, Barnes & Hembree

1 of 4: Swihart

 

Maybe Holt & Leon or Swihart are gone by next year, but there's still a lot of money going to arb raises next year.

 

 

[a700hitter]

So, if the Sox finish in last place, it is not Dombrowski's fault?

Isn't that your position with regard to coffee Boy Ben -- that it was the players' fault? And your excuse for the players was that their under-performance was an anomaly. There was enough blame NOT to go around.

[notin]

Yeah, I suppose there were some pretty harsh words before the JD signing. Red Sox fans aren't necessarily the most patient group of people. LOL

 

Guilty.

 

But in my defense this off-season was intolerably slow

[moonslav59]

Guilty.

 

But in my defense this off-season was intolerably slow

 

While this off season was frustrating, so many big named players were not being signed by anyone.

 

I never understood why DD was blamed for nobody signing with anybody.

 

I get your complaint about not signing a pitcher, even to a minor league deal, but the JD signing came in below expectations financially, and yet we still only have about $4M to play with this summer. It looks like not signing anyone else might prove to be the best move, as $4M can buy us much more paying just the pro-rated portion of a better pitcher in July rather than some bum in January.

[jacksonianmarch]

Not if Martinez and Price opt out. Sure you can point out it's unlikely Price opts out, but it is still possible. Certainly not probable but definitely possible.

 

Martinez is certainly more likely.

 

And if Smith or Thornburg or another replaces Kimbrel, that eliminates that need.

 

It's actually possible that within two years, the Sox shed almost $120 mill in payroll. Although that number more likely is either about $63million or about $85mill, depending on Martinez. Especially if he wants to go somewhere where he can play the outfield.

 

That would leave the Sox needing a few players, but if this off-season is any indication, they might be cheaper to replace. ..

 

If this hot stove is any indication, JDM and Price are staying put

[Bellhorn04]

He missed all of 2016. I'm betting that he returns to his 3+ fWAR totals going forward. Dickey hasn't had a 3 fWAR season since Obama's first term. I also trust the guy 13 years younger and have had my fill of knucklers.

 

Forget Lynn, man, the dude turned down 2 years and $20 mill. We just don't have enough left in the cookie jar.

 

We need to do a dumpster dive. R. A. Dickey is not that bad in that category. He's durable and can probably keep the ERA under 5.

[Bellhorn04]

It could be that DD thinks Johnson and Velazquez both deserve a legitimate shot as starters.

 

And I suspect he's also keeping a sharp eye on what's left in the dumpster.

[moonslav59]

It could be that DD thinks Johnson and Velazquez both deserve a legitimate shot as starters.

 

And I suspect he's also keeping a sharp eye on what's left in the dumpster.

 

I see it this way, too.

 

Give Johnson, Velazquez and Elias a shot first. Yes, if we go through all three, it means we've had more injuries or the first two sucked. That might hurt our chances in a close division or playoff race, but I think giving these kids a chance makes sense for two major reasons:

 

1) We'll find out what these kids got once and for all. They are all old enough to be 4 -5 year vets.

2) With just $4M to spend, waiting until 2/3rds of the season is over, allows us to trade for a higher paid and better pitcher, since we only owe the prorated portion of his deal. For example, if a pitcher is making $12M, we will only be charged $4M on the budget.

 

This could hurt, if we miss the playoffs by a game or two, but I'd rather take my chances and get a very good pitcher in July than a has been now.

[cp176]

I don't think that I give him too much credit. I honestly think that the items being whined about here are things that he is considering and trying to address. It doesn't take a great deal of intellect to recognize the needs of this team limited as they might be. I suppose that it is possible that with respect to adding starting pitching which seems to be the big bitch these days that he feels that our current in house guys might be as good as any that are affordable elsewhere.

 

Yup - I've felt this way for a while.

[cp176]

Yup - I've felt this way for a while.

 

Maybe it is possible that DD feels that Johnson, Velasquez, and Elias represent better options than going after what some have referred to as "dumpster dives".

[mvp 78]

Maybe it is possible that DD feels that Johnson, Velasquez, and Elias represent better options than going after what some have referred to as "dumpster dives".

 

I can't see how they can be much worse. I think I'd rather give Johnson a shot than Dickey.

[moonslav59]

I can't see how they can be much worse. I think I'd rather give Johnson a shot than Dickey.

 

All three have similar odds of doing well as Dickey or Lackey or ...

[cp176]

I can't see how they can be much worse. I think I'd rather give Johnson a shot than Dickey.

 

I agree with you here very much. Why spend the money on another potentially over the hill pitcher. They had it once, doesn't mean that it magically comes back again. I think that some of this discussion comes from a few here who just don't like DD. I don't think that it will make any difference what he does or does not do. He seems to be an independent kind of guy. I like that.

[mvp 78]

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/mlb/562050/Moose-may-wait-to-sign-until-after-June-draft

 

Not to worry, everything is normal. Why would a 2 fWAR player who hit 272/38/85 (835 OPS) expect to have a contract by opening day?

[Bellhorn04]

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/mlb/562050/Moose-may-wait-to-sign-until-after-June-draft

 

Not to worry, everything is normal. Why would a 2 fWAR player who hit 272/38/85 (835 OPS) expect to have a contract by opening day?

 

Or is he another good-but-far-from-elite player who got a little greedy and/or misread where the market was headed?

[notin]

Maybe it is possible that DD feels that Johnson, Velasquez, and Elias represent better options than going after what some have referred to as "dumpster dives".

 

Even if he thinks that, he can't tell the future. The Sox are already down two starting pitchers. They have two more with potential elbow issues. Does anyone really think it's wise to limit the depth to these three guys? What happens if one or two of them go down?

 

Given how little time the Sox Might have Sale for and a few othet players, want the logic supposed to be to go all in? Does all in mean pennant hopes can rely on Jalen Beeks and Roenis Elias?

[moonslav59]

Even if he thinks that, he can't tell the future. The Sox are already down two starting pitchers. They have two more with potential elbow issues. Does anyone really think it's wise to limit the depth to these three guys? What happens if one or two of them go down?

 

Given how little time the Sox Might have Sale for and a few othet players, want the logic supposed to be to go all in? Does all in mean pennant hopes can rely on Jalen Beeks and Roenis Elias?

 

We wait until we know Johnson, Velazquez, Elias, and Beeks can't cut it, and then we go out and get a good pitcher, if needed, at a pro-rated contract cost.

[Hugh2]

I'm fine with guys like Johnson as depth options, but there isn't really an argument against trying to increase your depth. Pitching, pitching, and more pitching. Dumpster diving can't hurt anyone if you're paying a guy peanuts in Pawtucket with an opt-out.

 

The difference between those guys and has-beens is potential. Sometimes you catch a guy who has something left, and when you do that you're going to get much better production than a guy whose ceiling is a BOTRS up/down guy.

[cp176]

Even if he thinks that, he can't tell the future. The Sox are already down two starting pitchers. They have two more with potential elbow issues. Does anyone really think it's wise to limit the depth to these three guys? What happens if one or two of them go down?

 

Given how little time the Sox Might have Sale for and a few othet players, want the logic supposed to be to go all in? Does all in mean pennant hopes can rely on Jalen Beeks and Roenis Elias?

 

Well you have already seen two pretty good answers so I won't bore you by saying the same thing just to make it three. As an aside though, I have never for one second felt that the overall strategy has been to go all in and then expect some ridiculous dropoff in a couple of years.

[baseball jones]

Well you have already seen two pretty good answers so I won't bore you by saying the same thing just to make it three. As an aside though, I have never for one second felt that the overall strategy has been to go all in and then expect some ridiculous dropoff in a couple of years.

 

i wouldn't call it a strategy,its just what dave does.he buys the most expensive players for the position and ignores other needs.then he leaves scorched earth behind him.have you seen detroit lately?

[mvp 78]

i wouldn't call it a strategy,its just what dave does.he buys the most expensive players for the position and ignores other needs.then he leaves scorched earth behind him.have you seen detroit lately?

 

Uh, wut?

 

He's done his best to fill that pen with decent arms every year since he's been here. Starters are pretty much set. Offense is pretty much set. What position has he ignored?

 

Also, do you remember what Detroit looked like BEFORE Dombrowski?

[cp176]

i wouldn't call it a strategy,its just what dave does.he buys the most expensive players for the position and ignores other needs.then he leaves scorched earth behind him.have you seen detroit lately?

 

That is your opinion and I'm sure there are people here who agree with you. I do not care what Dave did in Detroit and obviously I don't share your opinion. To date, I am very pleased with the moves he has made for our team - the Red Sox.

[Nick]

Had we kept our roster intact.

 

SP Porcello

SP E Rod

SP S Wright

SP Johnson

SP

 

Closer Kelly

Set Up Barnes

 

1B Sam Travis/Shaw

2B Pedroia

SS Xander

3B Devers/Shaw

C Vazquez

DH Hanley

LF Beni

CF Bradley Jr

RF Betts

 

I guess we could have finished near bottom had we kept Ben, but our farm would be stocked to the hilt. We'd have Moncada and Kopech.

 

Lets take a closer look at our trades. Part I.

 

Manuel Margo 2017 126 games 487 AB .313 .409 .722 What do you do with him? Trade JBJ?

Javier Guerra Padres shortstop prospect....no longer a top 30 in Padre system. He was a top MLB top 50 prospect in 2015. SEE HOW THIS WORKS?

Logan Allen #13 Left hander pitching prospect for Padres

Anderson Espinoza #7 Prospect for Padres (injured for 2018)

Carlos Asuaje 89 games 307 AB .334 .362 .696 2B for Padres

Wade Miley....do we really want him back?

Luis Alfehandro Basabe...traded for Ziegler, not on 40 man roster, not listed on 30 man prospects list for Arizona

Jose Almonte....also traded for Ziegler, ranked 22nd on 30 man prospects list for Arizona, a pitcher

Aaron Wilkerson...traded to Milwaukee for Aaron Hill. soon to be 29 year old pitcher is on the 40 man roster.

Wendell Rijo...also traded to Milwaukee for Aaron Hill. Not on the top 30 prospect list for the Brewers.

Mauricio Dubon...traded to Milwaukee for Thornburg. Ranked 11th in Brewers top 30 prospect list. 2B/SS.

TRAVIS SHAW...traded to Milwaukee for Thornburg. .862 OPS with 31 HR and 101 RBI. Under team control for 4 years. Just remember, everyone here thought maybe he was expendable. Moncada on his way.

 

Ok, I'll stop for now. I will follow with White Sox trade. Setting aside the Shaw trade, did we really empty out the farm? Bueller? Bueller?

Edited March 7, 2018 by Nick