Front office Decisions

[sk7326]

Desperate dave can not keep the same standard for scouting going forward because half the baseball operations department bolted last offseason .

 

Of course he can - if their replacements are quality. He has won everywhere he has done his thing.

[sk7326]

Ben quickly identified Betts, Bogey and JBj as keepers, aggressively promoted them, and watched them thrive- all while many fans and posters wanted us to trade them for "premium quality stuff" like Cole Hamels & Ryan Howard.

 

Nobody here advocated keeping all our kids and never making legitimate upgrading deals.

 

Some are fine with all the deals made, but realize we sacrificed some of the extended future by making all those deals in a short period of time.

 

Some love the deals and think there's nothing to worry about concerning the future or that it is futile to worry.

 

Some think it's fine to try and put a winning team out there this year but to try and balance that commitment with an equal commitment towards 2020 and beyond- or at least close to equal.

 

Some might be in between or somewhere outside the categories I mentioned.

 

To a degree - he held everybody ... which means that some of these people would emerge naturally. But the team when he was there did not identify - say your Margots or whatnot as premium trade stuff. Considering how young our core is - the commitment to 2020 is really about Henry's commitment, not Dombrowski's.

[moonslav59]

To a degree - he held everybody ... which means that some of these people would emerge naturally. But the team when he was there did not identify - say your Margots or whatnot as premium trade stuff. Considering how young our core is - the commitment to 2020 is really about Henry's commitment, not Dombrowski's.

 

I am convinced Ben was going to trade some of those prospects- probably several of the ones DD traded away. There's no way any one knows whether the team "identified" those they were going to trade and keep. I'm sure every organization has a priority of who they'd prefer to keep, and it may differ from one GM to the next or between Ben and a GM looking to make a trade.

 

On Henry vs DD's "commitment, you are probably right, but I'm sure DD's philosophy and input helps steer Henry in a significant way, even if it's Henry steering DD in a more influential way.

[BstHcpr]

It doesn't, but I can't honestly see how you'd give ANY credit to Ben for Kimbrel or Sale.

 

Do you know that song from Tyrion's wedding in GoT? Moonslav59 frolics to that rhythm in front of his Ben Cherrington posted.

Edited August 18, 2017 by BstHcpr

[reYoukilis]

Ben quickly identified Betts, Bogey and JBj as keepers, aggressively promoted them, and watched them thrive- all while many fans and posters wanted us to trade them for "premium quality stuff" like Cole Hamels & Ryan Howard.

 

Nobody here advocated keeping all our kids and never making legitimate upgrading deals.

 

Some are fine with all the deals made, but realize we sacrificed some of the extended future by making all those deals in a short period of time.

 

Some love the deals and think there's nothing to worry about concerning the future or that it is futile to worry.

 

Some think it's fine to try and put a winning team out there this year but to try and balance that commitment with an equal commitment towards 2020 and beyond- or at least close to equal.

 

Some might be in between or somewhere outside the categories I mentioned.

Actually I mistakenly thought JBJ, Betts and Bogaerts were drafted by Cherington but you still back up my point because he did stick with the farm system instead of trading them away and it has worked out. I give a pass to him on Panda and Hanley because of the sometime lack of patience there is and he caved (my theory of course). They were time buyers though, meant to appease until the youth movement took hold.

 

As for DD, he hasnt completely went against Cherington but I look at Travis Shaws current success and see our first baseman (Morelands alright). I didnt want Price. I mean he stunk it up for Toronto in the playoffs and the manager didnt start him on his day to pitch! I also remember us always getting to him when he was with Rays.

[mvp 78]

Do you know that song from Tyrion's wedding in GoT? Moonslav59 frolics to that rhythm in front of his Ben Cherrington posted.

 

What song? I know GOT but can't place the song.

[sk7326]

I am convinced Ben was going to trade some of those prospects- probably several of the ones DD traded away. There's no way any one knows whether the team "identified" those they were going to trade and keep. I'm sure every organization has a priority of who they'd prefer to keep, and it may differ from one GM to the next or between Ben and a GM looking to make a trade.

 

On Henry vs DD's "commitment, you are probably right, but I'm sure DD's philosophy and input helps steer Henry in a significant way, even if it's Henry steering DD in a more influential way.

 

one is employed by the other - QED

[moonslav59]

one is employed by the other - QED

 

Of course. And, I'm sure Henry realizes DD knows more about baseball than he does.

[sk7326]

Of course. And, I'm sure Henry realizes DD knows more about baseball than he does.

 

In terms of choosing players and such of course - but if Henry wants to spend money to keep an excellent young core together, that is his choice. Ilitch does not know more than Dombrowski did - but he knew the direction he wanted - play for the veteran club, damn the torpedoes. Ownership is setting that direction ...

[notin]

Do you know that song from Tyrion's wedding in GoT? Moonslav59 frolics to that rhythm in front of his Ben Cherrington posted.

 

 

Who remembers Tyrion's wedding? Probably the leasy exciting wedding in the show by body count...

[tom-uk]

It is hard to say if a homegrown player or DD is keen to sign a longterm deal "early" (Pedroia, Longoria, ...). I'm thinking right now JBJ, Betts, and especially Bog have lost some bargaining power with declines in production. compared to other times in their careers. They might regret not inking deals in the past.

[S5Dewey]

It is hard to say if a homegrown player or DD is keen to sign a longterm deal "early" (Pedroia, Longoria, ...). I'm thinking right now JBJ, Betts, and especially Bog have lost some bargaining power with declines in production. compared to other times in their careers. They might regret not inking deals in the past.

 

IMO the only one of the three who's hurt their bargaining power is Bogaerts. Bradley was a big question mark after last year and wouldn't have commanded a huge contract anyway. Mookie is just the opposite and he's struggling this year offensively but his D is still solid. He still has his tools and I expect him to become himself again.

 

Bogaerts OTOH has been a disappointment this year on both sides of the ball. My guess is that the Sox are pleased that they haven't signed him to anything long-term yet.

[oldtimer]

IMO the only one of the three who's hurt their bargaining power is Bogaerts. Bradley was a big question mark after last year and wouldn't have commanded a huge contract anyway. Mookie is just the opposite and he's struggling this year offensively but his D is still solid. He still has his tools and I expect him to become himself again.

 

Bogaerts OTOH has been a disappointment this year on both sides of the ball. My guess is that the Sox are pleased that they haven't signed him to anything long-term yet.

 

I think the only sure field players for the Sox in 2018 are:

 

Beni

Betts

Vaz

Devers

Pedey

Rameriz (wish this wasn't true but who will take him with the $22.7 Mil salary)

 

The only clear FA pickup field player at this point would be Nunez. He was making 4,200,000 but will command a lot more now)

 

The players that might be used in trades would be JBJ, Bogaerts and Leon. JBJ's defense would be hard to replace.

 

So in my view, we might see a need for a 1st baseman, a SS and a backup catcher. Less likely, a need for a CF replacement.

 

We have Lin, Hernandez and Travis as possible utility players in 2018, with Holt, Moreland and Young likely gone from the roster.

[S5Dewey]

I think the only sure field players for the Sox in 2018 are:

 

Beni

Betts

Vaz

Devers

Pedey

Rameriz (wish this wasn't true but who will take him with the $22.7 Mil salary)

 

The only clear FA pickup field player at this point would be Nunez. He was making 4,200,000 but will command a lot more now)

 

The players that might be used in trades would be JBJ, Bogaerts and Leon. JBJ's defense would be hard to replace.

 

So in my view, we might see a need for a 1st baseman, a SS and a backup catcher. Less likely, a need for a CF replacement.

 

We have Lin, Hernandez and Travis as possible utility players in 2018, with Holt, Moreland and Young likely gone from the roster.

 

I'd add JBJ to that list of sure players for next year too. Not because I like him, but because DD likes him. According to the rumors DD has had numerous chances to trade JBJ but has held onto him, and in fact tried to acquire him when DD was in Detroit. So I think JBJ will be around in 2018.

[Spudboy]

I'd add JBJ to that list of sure players for next year too. Not because I like him, but because DD likes him. According to the rumors DD has had numerous chances to trade JBJ but has held onto him, and in fact tried to acquire him when DD was in Detroit. So I think JBJ will be around in 2018.

 

I think Holt and possibly Moreland will be around as well.

 

Just my hunch.

[Nick]

I would think it would be hard to trade Xander who made $4.3M in his first arbitration year. You only have two years of control left and at what price?

 

Better question is what can we get in return? Not much.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Nick

[oldtimer]

I would think it would be hard to trade Xander who made $4.3M in his first arbitration year. You only have two years of control left and at what price?

 

Better question is what can we get in return? Not much.

 

Thats the question. Does the FO think we improve the team by making the trade? Clearly there is a risk, like with Shaw, what they think will happen not be correct. If we don't think we can improve the team, then don't make the trade..

[Maxbialystock]

I'm probably the lone voice saying this, but I would not be inclined to dump any of our current regulars next year, by whom I mean:

 

Betts

Benintendi

Bogaerts

Bradley

Pedroia

Devers

Vazquez/Leon

Ramirez

 

I don't like Ramirez, but think we are stuck with him. Plus last year he had a very good OPS of .866. And he can play 1b when Moreland leaves.

Bogey similarly had a good overall WAR last year and in 2015.

JBJ same deal--last year, anyway. Plus that great D.

I would want to keep Nunez if only as insurance against Pedey knee issues. Make him the new Holt,maybe.

Leon/Vazquez are both under 30 and are a pretty good twosome in a position that absolutely demands two capable people.

 

I like everyone else would love a big bat but am reluctant to trade away a bunch of regulars for him. Besides, Devers might become that big bat.

 

And this. In a down year for almost everyone except Vazquez, the Sox are hardly broke. I mean, with the lousy hitting and all aren't they headed for 92 or more wins and the AL East? Isn't it even possible guys like Betts, Bogie, JBJ, and HanRam can get back to their 2016 numbers or at least get closer than they are this year?

Edited September 13, 2017 by Maxbialystock

[Jack Flap]

I'm probably the lone voice saying this, but I would not be inclined to dump any of our current regulars next year, by whom I mean:

 

Betts

Benintendi

Bogaerts

Bradley

Pedroia

Devers

Vazquez/Leon

Ramirez

 

I don't like Ramirez, but think we are stuck with him. Plus last year he had a very good OPS of .866. And he can play 1b when Moreland leaves.

Bogey similarly had a good overall WAR last year and in 2015.

JBJ same deal--last year, anyway. Plus that great D.

I would want to keep Nunez if only as insurance against Pedey knee issues. Make him the new Holt,maybe.

Leon/Vazquez are both under 30 and are a pretty good twosome in a position that absolutely demands two capable people.

 

I like everyone else would love a big bat but am reluctant to trade away a bunch of regulars for him. Besides, Devers might become that big bat.

 

And this. In a down year for almost everyone except Vazquez, the Sox are hardly broke. I mean, with the lousy hitting and all aren't they headed for 92 or more wins and the AL East? Isn't it even possible guys like Betts, Bogie, JBJ, and HanRam can get back to their 2016 numbers or at least get closer than they are this year?

 

I agree. I think we bring in a 1B/DH type (preferably someone who can hit a few bombs) but otherwise look pretty much the same.

 

Nunez would be nice to keep around if he'd agree to be "the new Holt" as you put it, but after his great second half I imagine he'll find a regular gig somewhere.

[mvp 78]

What they should do:

 

1. Fire Farrell, make Disarcina the manager and Jonny Gomes the bench coach

2. Sign JD Martinez to play 1B until HRam's deal is over

3. Add another bullpen arm

4. Try to extend Betts and Sale

5. Have Price get surgery

[oldtimer]

I agree. I think we bring in a 1B/DH type (preferably someone who can hit a few bombs) but otherwise look pretty much the same.

 

Nunez would be nice to keep around if he'd agree to be "the new Holt" as you put it, but after his great second half I imagine he'll find a regular gig somewhere.

 

Whether Cleveland can maintain their momentum and resign their key pieces is an unknown. They went out this year and added two power hitters to a strong lineup, something that the luxury cap got in the way of for the Sox. Like it or not, they become the new target of excellence to shoot at and our changes should be made with them in mind.

 

Definitely we need a big bat, probably at 1st base. Otherwise, we should be open minded should opportunities arise to improve in areas where the hitting is weak. Nunez, currently at 4.2 million will deserve a healthy raise and it will be a competitive battle to keep him. Reed also would be a good keep ar $7.75 Mil. Moreland will probably not return so we can go for a 1st baseman with a big bat. Young and Davis will probably not be resigned and also Kendrick will not return. The savings on those four will be amount to $19 Mil on avoided cost.

 

Lots of other considerations in the pitching area, with who will be cut loose and who will remain. Question marks for Smith although he looks like a keeper, and Thornburgh who is still in the remains to be seen category.

 

To me it apears that our pitching will remain competitve with the best staffs in 2018 but to really compete at the highest levels we need to consider multiple ways to become a stronger team.

[Bellhorn04]

What they should do:

 

1. Fire Farrell, make Disarcina the manager and Jonny Gomes the bench coach

2. Sign JD Martinez to play 1B until HRam's deal is over

3. Add another bullpen arm

4. Try to extend Betts and Sale

5. Have Price get surgery

 

And Papi for hitting coach.

[cp176]

One of the best decisions that I think they have ever made is the one they just announced. David Ortiz is a lifetime representative for the organization. A great ambassador for our team. Good job John henry and company!

[mvp 78]

And Papi for hitting coach.

 

He was just signed to some weird lifetime contract. Maybe he can work the PA. I'd be down with that.

[Larry Cook]

Has chilli Davis done enough to return next season as hitting coach.

[mvp 78]

Has chilli Davis done enough to return next season as hitting coach.

 

Nope.

[oldtimer]

Has chilli Davis done enough to return next season as hitting coach.

 

That can only be judged by the results on the field. If you believe nearly the entire team being substantially lower in OPS is not connected to the hitting coach then you might bring him back. On the other hand it would seem that there must be a connection, so i would recommend a change. Can it be worse?

[SoxnCycles]

I'm probably the lone voice saying this, but I would not be inclined to dump any of our current regulars next year, by whom I mean:

 

Betts

Benintendi

Bogaerts

Bradley

Pedroia

Devers

Vazquez/Leon

Ramirez

 

I don't like Ramirez, but think we are stuck with him. Plus last year he had a very good OPS of .866. And he can play 1b when Moreland leaves.

Bogey similarly had a good overall WAR last year and in 2015.

JBJ same deal--last year, anyway. Plus that great D.

I would want to keep Nunez if only as insurance against Pedey knee issues. Make him the new Holt,maybe.

Leon/Vazquez are both under 30 and are a pretty good twosome in a position that absolutely demands two capable people.

 

I like everyone else would love a big bat but am reluctant to trade away a bunch of regulars for him. Besides, Devers might become that big bat.

 

And this. In a down year for almost everyone except Vazquez, the Sox are hardly broke. I mean, with the lousy hitting and all aren't they headed for 92 or more wins and the AL East? Isn't it even possible guys like Betts, Bogie, JBJ, and HanRam can get back to their 2016 numbers or at least get closer than they are this year?

 

It's an unlikable team, on the whole.

I don't think I'd bat an eye if they traded everyone, with the exception of Sale, Betts, Devers, and Vazquez.

Do whatever it takes to improve the offense.

[mvp 78]

It's an unlikable team, on the whole.

I don't think I'd bat an eye if they traded everyone, with the exception of Sale, Betts, Devers, and Vazquez.

Do whatever it takes to improve the offense.

 

I can't agree with this.

 

Bogey and Vazquez are great with the fans and have gone out of their way to interact with the next generation of great Sox fans.

 

The OF is fun as hell to watch. They are athletic, strong, fast and great fielders. What more could you want?

 

Devers is a 20 year old guy with generational talent and a baby face.

 

Pedroia has been on the team since winning a ROY in 07 and MVP 08. He's beloved by the vast majority of fans.

 

The rotation consists of last year's CY, one of the greatest arms in baseball and a guy who was an AS last year who had an ERA of 3.3 the last two years and is currently 15-5.

 

The pen has one of the best closers in the game who throws HEAT and a nasty change. They have a guy who was a hero on the last WS team and has fought his way back from numerous injuries. They have another guy who pumps in FB's at 100+ and has a weird mustache.

 

Aside from Hanley and Price, who is really unlikable on the team? Hanley has a great personality and is only unliked because of his contract.

[Emp9]

The gist of what I'm reading on here is: Things aren't perfect, so let's blow it up.

 

Great plan!!! /s/