Front office Decisions

[SoxnCycles]

I hear you, Slash...and I'm not ready to jump off the bridge, either, for the record. Watching winnable games getting pissed away because of the inability to get a big hit just gets old, that's all.

 

This lineup has a very different look with Devers and Nunez so far, and if we can get the B's and Hanley going, we'll be just fine.

 

Yup, it's not a lack of HRs that are costing the Sox games. They can't even get their share of timely hits.

Watching Betts pop up (again) to end the game with bases loaded the other night was pathetic.

[oldtimer]

I hear you, Slash...and I'm not ready to jump off the bridge, either, for the record. Watching winnable games getting pissed away because of the inability to get a big hit just gets old, that's all.

 

This lineup has a very different look with Devers and Nunez so far, and if we can get the B's and Hanley going, we'll be just fine.

 

 

Big ifs. How long do you suppose Devers and Nunez will stay on fire? We do need the strong parts of our batting order to do a lot more. Hope they do!

[Larry Cook]

Big ifs. How long do you suppose Devers and Nunez will stay on fire? We do need the strong parts of our batting order to do a lot more. Hope they do!

 

Understatement of the year.

 

The reality is Moreland, pedroia, bogey, Hanley and holt are all playing injured.

 

Nunez and devers are they only healthy ones and a breath of fresh air.

 

But for this team to win, we need the outfielders to get hot and the infielders to contribute more.

 

Mookie and benintendi must come alive!

[a700hitter]

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http://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.weei.com/s3fs-public/styles/nts_image_cover_tall_775x425/public/encarnacion.jpg?itok=ZmpBaOd0&c=72bce310a7b3ef4d556239232adaf9f8Bob DeChiara/USA Today Sports

 

 

 

 

Edwin Encarnacion: 'I was surprised' Red Sox didn't make offer

 

 

http://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.weei.com/s3fs-public/styles/nts_image_on_demand_lg_thumbnail_60x60/public/Bradford_775x425.jpg?itok=EjDGVYgN&c=07cfd156da39905a39506181625fc2cd

 

 

 

ROB BRADFORDAUGUST 14, 2017 - 10:55 PM

When Edwin Encarnacion sat down with his agent, Paul Kinzer, to strategize the slugger's plan heading into free agency after the 2016 season, three teams were surfaced by the player as preferred destinations: Toronto, Boston and another team. (No, that third club wasn't the Yankees.)

David Ortiz had dubbed Encarnacion as the player he viewed as his perfect replacement. The positional fit seemed good enough, with the first baseman/designated hitter ready to alternate with Hanley Ramirez. And with Ortiz gone, the one thing that seemed to be missing from the Red Sox' lineup was that kind of middle-of-the-order presence that the 34-year-old had been supplying for the Blue Jays on the way to five straight seasons of 34 or more homers.

But, the Red Sox had other plans.

Not wanting to go over the luxury tax threshold, or potentially block up-and-coming first baseman Sam Travis, Dave Dombrowski let it be known in early November that Encarnacion wasn't going to be one of his free agent targets. This was not what Encarnacion was expecting.

"I was surprised because the way David was pushing and talking to the media and everything, and they don't even make an offer to me," Encarnacion told WEEI.com after hitting two home runs in his Guardians' 7-3 win over the Red Sox. "I was surprised, but you know how it is."

With Encarnacion ultimately having to settle for a three-year, $60 million deal with Cleveland, it's easy to take a look at the damage he inflicted on the Red Sox Monday night and point to the righty hitter as one that got away. But the pointing really should have began back when free agency kicked off.

Signing this guy would have been worth whatever financial or positional discomfort might follow. He was a really good fit then, and remains a really good fit now. After an extremely slow start, Encarnacion has 26 homers and an .856 OPS. At Fenway Park for his career, he has 17 homers and a .922 OPS in 53 games.

For a point of reference, here are the ramifications of going over the CBT:

- The tax itself. (Just money.)

- The team am receives less compensation (lower draft choice) when they lose a qualified free agent after that season. (Not an issue for the Red Sox.)

- The team gives up a higher draft choice when they sign a qualified free agent after that season. (Most likely not an issue for the Red Sox.)

- The team loses more international signing bonus pool money if sign a qualified fee agent. (Most likely not an issue for the Red Sox.)

- Higher tax rate/surcharge if team is more than $20 million over threshold; even more above $40 million over. (Just money).)

And the ramifications of going over multiple times in a row:

- The more times you go over, the higher your tax rate is. Third time in a row equals 50 percent for first $20 million over. (Money.)

- The more times you go over, the more revenue sharing money you lose. (Money.)

So, most of the penalties for committing to Encarnacion would be financial, which would seem palatable considering the priority this ownership group has put on winning. They did, after, just let a player (Pablo Sandoval) go that is going to cost them upwards of $48 million for not wearing the Red Sox uniform.

As for Travis, he is undeniably an intriguing prospect who might be able to serve as a starting first baseman in the majors next season. But he isn't going to supply the kind of power this lineup seems to be thirsting for. The 23-year-old is currently hitting .268 with a .711 OPS and four home runs in 66 Triple-A games this season.

The Red Sox have gotten very good value from Mitch Moreland at first base on a short-term deal. They also hold a 4 1/2-game lead in the American League East. But, especially after the latest reminder, Edwin Encarnacion has left the Red Sox with at least a twinge of what could have been.

"I love it," the slugger said when asked what he thought about the Green Monster.

That's just rubbing it in.

[a700hitter]

And that makes two of us.

[Slasher9]

needed to reset the LT and couldnt do that at 3 / $60MM.

he's almost 35 YO.

we already have Hanley.

His HR trot is f***ing stupid.

[mvp 78]

needed to reset the LT and couldnt do that at 3 / $60MM.

he's almost 35 YO.

we already have Hanley.

His HR trot is f***ing stupid.

 

It's really the only reason they didn't sign him. Henry wanted to reset the tax he's paying. Can't blame DD for that.

[oldtimer]

It's really the only reason they didn't sign him. Henry wanted to reset the tax he's paying. Can't blame DD for that.

 

We have Hanley with us through 2018 and possibly 2019 if he reaches 1050 PA in 2017/2018. He currently has 368 this year. No one else will pay the $22,750,000 we are paying so he is here and will be used. Encarnacion would have added another $20 million player who is aging and is limited to 1st or DH. He is a good power hitter but because of Hanley he wasn't a good fit.

[Kimmi]

Or maybe we didn't sign Encarnacion because we didn't need him?

[mvp 78]

Or maybe we didn't sign Encarnacion because we didn't need him?

 

This offense definitely needed EE.

 

24th in SLG

26th in HR

20th in TB

17th in OPS

[Bellhorn04]

Or maybe we didn't sign Encarnacion because we didn't need him?

 

He would have improved our offense, pretty hard to deny that.

[Kimmi]

This offense definitely needed EE.

 

24th in SLG

26th in HR

20th in TB

17th in OPS

 

10th in runs scored

13th in BsR (base running, and that includes all the negative we get from hitting in DPs)

7th in run differential

And most importantly, 4th in Winning %

 

Is that great? No. Did we definitely need Encarnacion? No.

[Slasher9]

the Red Sox have a cap. EE didnt fit under it (this year). it was never going to happen.

[Kimmi]

He would have improved our offense, pretty hard to deny that.

 

No doubt he would have improved our offense. But that does not mean that he was a need. Here is one case where Dombrowski, or more likely Henry, was not thinking solely of the short term.

 

Our offense has been good enough to keep us in 1st place. It should be even better than it has been.

 

I'm good with not signing him.

[mvp 78]

No doubt he would have improved our offense. But that does not mean that he was a need. Here is one case where Dombrowski, or more likely Henry, was not thinking solely of the short term.

 

Our offense has been good enough to keep us in 1st place. It should be even better than it has been.

 

I'm good with not signing him.

Our offense is what it is. Saying "well it should have been better because of reasons" doesn't feel like a very good argument. The offense hasn't performed well, because the offense might not be very good without a big bat anchoring it.

[Bellhorn04]

Our offense is what it is. Saying "well it should have been better because of reasons" doesn't feel like a very good argument. The offense hasn't performed well, because the offense might not be very good without a big bat anchoring it.

 

But now we've got Raffy, so that's all changed.

[Kimmi]

Our offense is what it is. Saying "well it should have been better because of reasons" doesn't feel like a very good argument. The offense hasn't performed well, because the offense might not be very good without a big bat anchoring it.

 

OK, so how does all that translate into 'we definitely need EE'?

 

It would be nice to have him, for sure, but we don't need him, not at the expense of going over the tax limit.

[mvp 78]

But now we've got Raffy, so that's all changed.

 

Runs per game are up to 5.5 since Devers played his first game. For the year, the Nats are 2nd in runs per game at 5.4.

 

It would still be nice to go back in time and win a few extra games in April - June. The more cushion this team has, the more likely they'll make the postseason.

[mvp 78]

OK, so how does all that translate into 'we definitely need EE'?

 

It would be nice to have him, for sure, but we don't need him, not at the expense of going over the tax limit.

 

Ignoring the tax limit, they need a bat like EE. Including the tax limit, it's ok that they didn't grab him this offseason. They need to fill that hole eventually though.

[moonslav59]

Runs per game are up to 5.5 since Devers played his first game. For the year, the Nats are 2nd in runs per game at 5.4.

 

It would still be nice to go back in time and win a few extra games in April - June. The more cushion this team has, the more likely they'll make the postseason.

 

Runs per game with Devers playing:

85 in 16 games= 5.32

 

Runs per game with Nunez playing:

86 in 15 games= 5.73

 

Nunez did not play 7/25 (5 runs scored) and 7/26 (4 runs scored)

Devers did not play 8/9 (8 runs scored)

 

Both players have made a tremendous difference in our run scoring.

Devers 11 R + 12 RBI - 6 HR= 17 in 16 games

Nunez 9R + 12 RBI - 4 HR= 17 in 15 games

 

I'm not taking anything away from Devers here. Without him, we'd have lost a few more games, but Nunez has been huge as well.

[mvp 78]

@bradfo

 

I don't know if I've ever said this publicly: the Red Sox should have signed Edwin Encarnacion

 

I'm now changing my mind, the Sox don't need EE. f*** Rob Bradford.

[Spudboy]

Our offense is what it is. Saying "well it should have been better because of reasons" doesn't feel like a very good argument. The offense hasn't performed well, because the offense might not be very good without a big bat anchoring it.

 

Common sense.

[cp176]

Ignoring the tax limit, they need a bat like EE. Including the tax limit, it's ok that they didn't grab him this offseason. They need to fill that hole eventually though.

 

it's kind of obvious to me that we have any number of posters here who care one big s*** load more about the luxury tax limit and all of the crap that goes with than John Henry does. We are lucky - he is very wealthy - he wants to own a winner today and tomorrow.

[moonslav59]

it's kind of obvious to me that we have any number of posters here who care one big s*** load more about the luxury tax limit and all of the crap that goes with than John Henry does. We are lucky - he is very wealthy - he wants to own a winner today and tomorrow.

 

You're right.

 

John Henry pays DD and others to "care one big s*** load" about the budget and taxes, so he doesn't have to.

 

I think it's more of a pride thing than an unwillingness to totally open up the wallet and give our GM total free reign to sign anyone and everyone he pleases. We saw how just about every non-Yankee fan hated the Yanks even more for outspending everyone by oodles and oodles. Saying he "bought championships" took away from the perception that he was a good business manager/owner.

 

I don't think JH wants to be thought of as the new George Steinbrenner. (Note: I have absolutely zero evidence to support that idea, but I do think that us straddling the luxury tax line for years indicates an unwillingness to spend more and more until he becomes the new GS.)

 

In my opinion, we will see the budget go about $19M over the luxury limit this winter, or we may save some room for summer spending.

 

[Larry Cook]

I have never been a fan of Edwin's.

 

But I do think we need a veteran leader that can provide some power.

 

I think votto is that guy.

 

The loss of Ortiz has negatively impacted Hanley and betts. I think Ortiz's presence kept Harley's head screwed on straight and helped betts with his a confidence.

 

A guy like votto could help focus these two and could also be a huge asset in the clubhouse for the others.

[moonslav59]

I have never been a fan of Edwin's.

 

But I do think we need a veteran leader that can provide some power.

 

I think votto is that guy.

 

The loss of Ortiz has negatively impacted Hanley and betts. I think Ortiz's presence kept Harley's head screwed on straight and helped betts with his a confidence.

 

A guy like votto could help focus these two and could also be a huge asset in the clubhouse for the others.

 

His age and years left scare the hell out of me, but man-o-man the guy can still hit!

[BstHcpr]

His age and years left scare the hell out of me, but man-o-man the guy can still hit!

 

When he hit a double against a 4 OF shift, I kind of thought this is the kind of guy who can hit into his 40's.

[moonslav59]

When he hit a double against a 4 OF shift, I kind of thought this is the kind of guy who can hit into his 40's.

 

I'm looking more at...

 

9 straight seasons with an OBP of .390+.

5 of the last 6 over .434

Leading the NL in OBP in 6 of 8 seasons, including last 2.

SLG over .540 for 3 straight years

1.050 OPS at age 31 (2017)

29+ HRs in 3 straight seasons

 

He certainly fills the need we have at the clean-up slot.

 

Cincy is notorious for asking a lot for their stars, and Votto has said he wants to stay in Cincy.

[cp176]

You're right.

 

John Henry pays DD and others to "care one big s*** load" about the budget and taxes, so he doesn't have to.

 

I think it's more of a pride thing than an unwillingness to totally open up the wallet and give our GM total free reign to sign anyone and everyone he pleases. We saw how just about every non-Yankee fan hated the Yanks even more for outspending everyone by oodles and oodles. Saying he "bought championships" took away from the perception that he was a good business manager/owner.

 

I don't think JH wants to be thought of as the new George Steinbrenner. (Note: I have absolutely zero evidence to support that idea, but I do think that us straddling the luxury tax line for years indicates an unwillingness to spend more and more until he becomes the new GS.)

 

In my opinion, we will see the budget go about $19M over the luxury limit this winter, or we may save some room for summer spending.

 

 

Going to have to stick to my primary point here - Many of the people who post here. seem to care more about the Red Sox budget than the primary owner does.

[Bellhorn04]

Going to have to stick to my primary point here - Many of the people who post here. seem to care more about the Red Sox budget than the primary owner does.

 

I care in the sense that it affects the team we see on the field. If there was no budget, Encarnacion would be on the 2017 team.