DD Curse

[Bellhorn04]

Harper has been something else so far this year, though.

[Jasonbay44]

Harper has been something else so far this year, though.

 

So has Trout, what's he doing is probably more impressive given the lineups both teams play in.

[cp176]

Since i saw Pomeranz pitch against Detroit last summer, i have tried hard to support him. After I saw him in an interview last week, not so much. if he was really any good, we might see a little fire and a little of "I'm pissed of at the way i have been pitching" attitude out of him. i haven't seen it. he's been cut. His card should have a picture of Owens on the back of it.

[Bellhorn04]

We might have to give DD some props for Abad. The guy has been pretty good lately.

[mvp 78]

We might have to give DD some props for Abad. The guy has been pretty good lately.

 

He seemed to be held back a little bit earlier in the year and was rarely used. http://www.fangraphs.com/statsd.aspx?playerid=4994&position=P I now wonder if they were just giving him extra rest after the WBC.

[notin]

Bit of an exaggeration regarding Harper and Betts.. also disagree about Harper being best in baseball. Give me Trout easily, most consistent guy in the league.

 

According to fangraphs, Mike Trout has been worth 50.5 fWAR. That's already more than the career totals of Hall of Famers Lou Brock and Kirby Puckett and just a shade under Jim Rice. In the next two seasons, Trout could surpass not only Rice but also Tony Perez, Andre Dawson,, Billy Williams, Willie Stargell, Ryne Sandburg, Harmon Killers, Craig Biggio, Mike Piazza, Tim Raines, Roberto Alomar, Barry Larkin, Paul Molitor, and Robin Yount, not to mention numerous other Hall of Famers from earlier eras.

 

And at that point, Mike Trout should be entering his prime. .

Edited May 18, 2017 by notin

[mvp 78]

If Mike Trout stays healthy, he will be the greatest player of all time.

[mvp 78]

http://deadspin.com/mike-trout-might-actually-be-getting-better-1795292897

[harmony]

According to fangraphs, Mike Trout has been worth 50.5 fWAR. That's already more than the career totals of Hall of Famers Lou Brock and Kirby Puckett and just a shade under Jim Rice. In the next two seasons, Trout could surpass not only Rice but also Tony Perez, Andre Dawson,, Billy Williams, Willie Stargell, Ryne Sandburg, Harmon Killers, Craig Biggio, Mike Piazza, Tim Raines, Roberto Alomar, Barry Larkin, Paul Molitor, and Robin Yount, not to mention numerous other Hall of Famers from earlier eras.

 

And at that point, Mike Trout should be entering his prime. .

At age 25 years, nine months and 11 days, Mike Trout is already tied with David Ortiz with a career fWAR of 50.5:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=10155&position=OF

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=745&position=DH

[moonslav59]

At age 25 years, nine months and 11 days, Mike Trout is already tied with David Ortiz with a career fWAR of 50.5:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=10155&position=OF

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=745&position=DH

 

Comparing WAR numbers between a DH and a positional player is skewed.

 

Had Papi played even slightly below average 1B defense for his whole career instead of DH, he'd still be ahead.

 

That being said....

 

Fangraphs' offensive numbers only

 

Papi 405.3 in 10991 PAs

Trout 344.8 in 3720 PAs

 

Trout is still going to blow by papi!

Edited May 18, 2017 by moonslav59

[mvp 78]

Seriously though, aside from the ridiculous Bonds cheating seasons, Trout is the greatest player of all time.

[moonslav59]

Seriously though, aside from the ridiculous Bonds cheating seasons, Trout is the greatest player of all time.

 

Hard to argue at this point in time.

[Spudboy]

Harper has the edge in beard growth.

 

Let's do a little impromptu survey.

 

If you could sign one of the two for your team, which one would you take?

 

Trout

 

Harper

 

 

I go with Mr. Chicken Teriyaki, Trout.

[Kimmi]

No question about it for me - Trout.

[Slasher9]

t-r-o-u-t. plus hes a Jersey boy.

[notin]

If Mike Trout stays healthy, he will be the greatest player of all time.

 

 

At the very least, I think he will get himself into the argument.

 

I also think that the list of iconic baseball greats will be expanded from "Ruth, Aaron, and Mays" to"Ruth, Aaron, Mays, and Trout."..

[sk7326]

No question about it for me - Trout.

 

Trout could have won the last 5 MVPs!!!

 

Keith Law once talked about his scouting story - and how everybody missed on Trout's evaluation. Trout was in high school in New Jersey - which was a problem anyway, after the Orioles disaster with Billy Riddell. But his high school senior season iirc was 2009 - with that brutal winter. Scouts simply couldn't get in to see him play - the games kept getting cancelled.

[Northern Star]

I've seen enough. I want Dombrowski out.

[a700hitter]

I've seen enough. I want Dombrowski out.

At what point did you want Ben & Cherries out?

[Spudboy]

At what point did you want Ben & Cherries out?

 

When he blew up a functioning top of a rotation.

[a700hitter]

When he blew up a functioning top of a rotation.

That is because it doesn't take you very long to spot stupid. A lot of people gave him a pass for that and everything else. It was upsetting to watch 2 of those starting pitchers win a World Series for the Cubs when a competent GM would have kept them on the Red Sox.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Cameron doesn't seem to like Dombrowski all that much -- his latest chat:

 

Pk: Much has been made of the widely different styles of Red Sox former GM Cherington and current one, Dombrowski, mostly focusing on the horde talent vs. trade the farm narrative. One thing I’ve perceived based on acquisitions is that Dombrowski is much better at evaluating Major league level talent. Do you agree?

 

Dave Cameron: Nope. I don’t know that Dombrowski has done anything in Boston that Cherington couldn’t have done. Overpay for Chris Sale? There’s nothing magical about that.

 

Warthen: Is there something magical about not signing pablo sandoval?

 

Dave Cameron: Everyone does things that don’t work. Everyone. Dombrowski traded Travis Shaw for a broken pitcher because he thought Pablo could still play.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/dave-cameron-fangraphs-chat-62817/#more-257807

 

I'm surprised Cameron takes on the Sale trade. Right now, that trade is looking pretty sweet for the Red Sox. (1) Where would the 2017 Red Sox be without Sale? (2) After getting off to a hot start in AAA, Moncada has slowed down--the power numbers aren't great and he is striking out too much. (3) Kopech's walk ratio is outrageously bad. He won't even profile as a relief pitcher if he doesn't get that fixed.

 

Of course, it is way too early to draw definitive conclusions on Moncada and Kopech, but I would say that both players have been slight disappointments in terms of performance thus far.

 

Cameron criticized the Shaw trade at the time it was made. He was right--you don't trade a position player like Shaw for a relief pitcher with a history of arm issues.

[moonslav59]

Cameron doesn't seem to like Dombrowski all that much -- his latest chat:

 

 

 

I'm surprised Cameron takes on the Sale trade. Right now, that trade is looking pretty sweet for the Red Sox. (1) Where would the 2017 Red Sox be without Sale? (2) After getting off to a hot start in AAA, Moncada has slowed down--the power numbers aren't great and he is striking out too much. (3) Kopech's walk ratio is outrageously bad. He won't even profile as a relief pitcher if he doesn't get that fixed.

 

Of course, it is way too early to draw definitive conclusions on Moncada and Kopech, but I would say that both players have been slight disappointments in terms of performance thus far.

 

Cameron criticized the Shaw trade at the time it was made. He was right--you don't trade a position player like Shaw for a relief pitcher with a history of arm issues.

.

I think Thornburg had one arm injury over his career. It sure looks like a horrible trade at this point.

 

Shaw doesn't seem to be dropping off a cliff this year.

[moonslav59]

Lot's of DD players have gotten hurt.

 

Carson Smith (and Roenis Elias)

 

Tyler Thornburg

 

David Price (missed 8-9 starts this year/ $31M and a 4.08 ERA with the Sox)

 

Pomeranz (missed time last year and pitched while injured)

 

Rutledge (re-acquired and on DL)

 

The good:

 

Moreland, last year: Ziegler

 

The great:

 

C Sale

 

 

[oldtimer]

Lot's of DD players have gotten hurt.

 

Carson Smith (and Roenis Elias)

 

Tyler Thornburg

 

David Price (missed 8-9 starts this year/ $31M and a 4.08 ERA with the Sox)

 

Pomeranz (missed time last year and pitched while injured)

 

Rutledge (re-acquired and on DL)

 

The good:

 

Moreland, last year: Ziegler

 

The great:

 

C Sale

 

 

 

Fister and Boyer are not so bad either.

[Bellhorn04]

Cameron doesn't seem to like Dombrowski all that much -- his latest chat:

 

 

 

I'm surprised Cameron takes on the Sale trade. Right now, that trade is looking pretty sweet for the Red Sox. (1) Where would the 2017 Red Sox be without Sale? (2) After getting off to a hot start in AAA, Moncada has slowed down--the power numbers aren't great and he is striking out too much. (3) Kopech's walk ratio is outrageously bad. He won't even profile as a relief pitcher if he doesn't get that fixed.

 

Of course, it is way too early to draw definitive conclusions on Moncada and Kopech, but I would say that both players have been slight disappointments in terms of performance thus far.

 

That particular answer by Cameron was kind of weak. Saying that DD hasn't done anything that Ben couldn't have done is actually kind of silly. Of course Ben *could have* done all the things DD has done if he was still here. We're talking about baseball transactions, not athletic feats. That's not really the point.

[Kimmi]

Cameron doesn't seem to like Dombrowski all that much -- his latest chat:

 

Dave Cameron - my man.

 

Even when I don't agree with him, which is rare, when he speaks, I listen.

[Kimmi]

That particular answer by Cameron was kind of weak. Saying that DD hasn't done anything that Ben couldn't have done is actually kind of silly. Of course Ben *could have* done all the things DD has done if he was still here. We're talking about baseball transactions, not athletic feats. That's not really the point.

 

Yeah, it is kind of the point. Dombrowski is being touted as some kind of genius pulling off these signings and these trades, but if you're willing to overpay, any GM can do that. And Dombrowski is doing it with resources made available to him by Ben.

 

Would Ben have made the same moves? Probably not. Would he have made moves to get the Sox back in the playoffs last year if given the chance? I'm 100% certain of it.

[Bellhorn04]

Yeah, it is kind of the point. Dombrowski is being touted as some kind of genius pulling off these signings and these trades, but if you're willing to overpay, any GM can do that. And Dombrowski is doing it with resources made available to him by Ben.

 

Here's where I disagree: I don't think anyone-not on this forum at least-has touted DD as a genius. He's been praised for certain moves and he's taken some heat for certain moves or non-moves.

[Kimmi]

Here's where I disagree: I don't think anyone-not on this forum at least-has touted DD as a genius. He's been praised for certain moves and he's taken some heat for certain moves or non-moves.

 

The term genius may not have been used, but I there are posters who are overly praising him, IMO.

 

IMO, the some of the best moves he has made are the under the radar types of moves, like Moreland and Ziegler. That's where I think he deserves praise.