Sox hitting??

[cp176]

i was fairly certain about the rule on that play until he said that he didn't know the rule, and Farrell challenged the play. When that happened, I started to wonder about the rule.

 

c'mon - go with your gut. I'm hoping (maybe against hope) that Farrell's challenge was that jackson did not maintain possession of the ball when the fence got in his way. Think about the number of times you have seen players go into the stands to make plays either in fair of foul territory. Not talking Jeter here though. Doesn't make any difference where your ass is when you make that catch as long as you hang on to it. Gomes must have been dreaming about his football days.-lol

[oldtimer]

Whatever gets it to work again.

 

JF has to try to get Beni hitting again to fulfill the capability of this team and tonight will be that attempt. I have been watching him hit and he still seems to have a pretty swing so maybe somethig about his plate approach is being worked on. I would like to see him pull more often rather than hit weaker balls to left field and also be a little more aggressive going on an earlier pitch. Saying that, I really don't see major flaws but the results haven't been good of late.

 

JBJ has also gone into another slump. In the past, his swing was long and he was getting past that but seems to be chasing more now.

 

Moving Beni to 2nd and JBJ to 9th and Devers to 5th may help and it can't hurt. Love to see them beat Bauer tonight.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

c'mon - go with your gut. I'm hoping (maybe against hope) that Farrell's challenge was that jackson did not maintain possession of the ball when the fence got in his way. Think about the number of times you have seen players go into the stands to make plays either in fair of foul territory. Not talking Jeter here though. Doesn't make any difference where your ass is when you make that catch as long as you hang on to it. Gomes must have been dreaming about his football days.-lol

 

Yeah I didn't understand the challenge, we all knew it was a HR. But this is a topic I find interesting because I could have sworn it used to be a HR and I used to think about it a lot because you rarely see that play. Did they change the rule? Was it ever a HR?

[moonslav59]

JF has to try to get Beni hitting again to fulfill the capability of this team and tonight will be that attempt. I have been watching him hit and he still seems to have a pretty swing so maybe somethig about his plate approach is being worked on. I would like to see him pull more often rather than hit weaker balls to left field and also be a little more aggressive going on an earlier pitch. Saying that, I really don't see major flaws but the results haven't been good of late.

 

He's been flailing at breaking balls down and away for a long time, especially vs LHPs.

 

I'd call that a flaw.

 

I would not bat Beni in the top 6 or 7 until he shows he's adjusted.

 

[Kimmi]

With a staff and defense like ours, I'm fine with those numbers, especially when 1 of the black holes is a plus-plus defender at the catcher position.

 

I am more than fine with Vaz and Leon as our catchers. Defense first. Our line up should be able to carry a 'weak' bat in the 8 or 9 hole.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Kimmi

[Spudboy]

I don't see either of our catchers as a black hole.

 

Vasquez shows signs of improvement at the plate from what I can see.

 

Leon is not the hitter that he showed us in his 2016 streak but is at least decent.

 

Combined with very good defense these two are pretty good.

[fxkatt]

I would still not be surprised if we end up with Jay Bruce (at a lesser price for a shorter period) as power insurance sometime this month. He would work out great with the expanded roster in Sept. both as DH and PH.

[moonslav59]

I don't see either of our catchers as a black hole.

 

Vasquez shows signs of improvement at the plate from what I can see.

 

Leon is not the hitter that he showed us in his 2016 streak but is at least decent.

 

Combined with very good defense these two are pretty good.

 

Just a week ago, Vaz was heading towards the .500's in OPS, but I agree. I don't mind some sub par offense from a catching tandem that excels on defense and staff-handling.

[moonslav59]

I would still not be surprised if we end up with Jay Bruce (at a lesser price for a shorter period) as power insurance sometime this month. He would work out great with the expanded roster in Sept. both as DH and PH.

 

Unless someone is injured, he'd be squeezing Beni (OF) or Nunez/HRam (DH).

 

I can see benching Moreland and playing HRam at 1B FT, but where does Nunez play, if Bruce DHs?

[cp176]

Yeah I didn't understand the challenge' date=' we all knew it was a HR. But this is a topic I find interesting because I could have sworn it used to be a HR and I used to think about it a lot because you rarely see that play. Did they change the rule? Was it ever a HR?[/quote']

 

No - if jackson had opened the door to the bullpen, walked in and caught the ball it would have been a homer. If he had jumped over the fence then caught the ball it would have been a homer. His feet were on the playing field when he left the ground. he maintained possession - out!

[fxkatt]

Unless someone is injured, he'd be squeezing Beni (OF) or Nunez/HRam (DH).

 

I can see benching Moreland and playing HRam at 1B FT, but where does Nunez play, if Bruce DHs?

 

Yes, I agree. I was thinking that Nunez had a spot, but Pedroia will be back in 10 days. Maybe Bruce goes to Cleveland. I'll bet he goes to some contender.

[Larry Cook]

I don't see either of our catchers as a black hole.

 

Vasquez shows signs of improvement at the plate from what I can see.

 

Leon is not the hitter that he showed us in his 2016 streak but is at least decent.

 

Combined with very good defense these two are pretty good.

 

Could not agree more. We have one of the best pitching staffs in the American League and they are part of that success.

 

Any hitting we get is a bonus.

[moonslav59]

Yes, I agree. I was thinking that Nunez had a spot, but Pedroia will be back in 10 days. Maybe Bruce goes to Cleveland. I'll bet he goes to some contender.

 

I suppose Nunez could play LF vs LHPs and rotate positions vs RHPs to give everyone a rest, but that might be too problematic.

 

Nunez at 2B while Pedey recovers and gets rest.

Nunez at SS while Bogey rest or gets a 10 DL stint to regain.

Nunez at 3b while Devers rests (Devers has never player 150+ games in a year).

Nunez at DH while HRam rests or HRam plays 1B as Moreland rests.

Nunez in LF as Betts or JBJ rests (Beni moves to CF or RF)

 

Basically, we can get Nunez into the line-up by sitting 8 of 9 batting slot players.

 

(Note: if we have a worse record than CLE, we can block an August waiver deal for Bruce or anyone else.)

[Larry Cook]

Seems to me we can sit hanley or Moreland and dh pedroia and keep Nunez at second.

 

Keeping pedroia off the field will only help the knee. I can not believe that ten days on the bench will stop the barking.

[moonslav59]

Seems to me we can sit hanley or Moreland and dh pedroia and keep Nunez at second.

 

Keeping pedroia off the field will only help the knee. I can not believe that ten days on the bench will stop the barking.

 

I would not sit HRam.

 

If Nunez id forced to play 2B for most of the remaining season, then yes, picking up a guy like bruce will not mess with anyone who deserves to play.

 

My biggest hope, when we got Nunez, was that Bogey could get a 10 day DL period to rest and regroup.

 

I also thought Moreland might need some time on the DL, but he's maybe showing signs he's over the toe injury.

 

I'd be fine with platooning Beni and letting Nunez play LF vs LHPs over Young.

[Slasher9]

No - if jackson had opened the door to the bullpen, walked in and caught the ball it would have been a homer. If he had jumped over the fence then caught the ball it would have been a homer. His feet were on the playing field when he left the ground. he maintained possession - out!

this is a great post on this. the only thing i would add is that both his feet were over the playing field when he makes contact with the ball. i believe that is the rule.

[mvp 78]

this is a great post on this. the only thing i would add is that both his feet were over the playing field when he makes contact with the ball. i believe that is the rule.

 

This is why every field should be surrounded by plexiglass like the Metrodome OF in the 80's and 90's.

[cp176]

this is a great post on this. the only thing i would add is that both his feet were over the playing field when he makes contact with the ball. i believe that is the rule.

 

Hope I'm not wrong about this one Slasher. I'm going to have to go read the rule.

[Slasher9]

Hope I'm not wrong about this one Slasher. I'm going to have to go read the rule.

 

you are basically right on. i think the only difference is if he had leapt (is leapt a word? leaped?) over the fence and his feet are over the wall then caught the ball before his feet touched the ground it would be a HR.

but in the other nights example - because his feet were still above the "playing field" when the ball made contact with his glove it's an out.

[Bellhorn04]

you are basically right on. i think the only difference is if he had leapt (is leapt a word? leaped?) over the fence and his feet are over the wall then caught the ball before his feet touched the ground it would be a HR.

 

Leapt and leaped are both acceptable. I like leapt myself...a little more colorful or something.

[oldtimer]

you are basically right on. i think the only difference is if he had leapt (is leapt a word? leaped?) over the fence and his feet are over the wall then caught the ball before his feet touched the ground it would be a HR.

but in the other nights example - because his feet were still above the "playing field" when the ball made contact with his glove it's an out.

 

So a player can make a legal catch so long as he is not touched down in the out of bounds area. If a player leaps, but has not as yet alit, even though he may have his body out of bounds he may make a legal catch? This begs the question I would think about whether the tops of the walls are out of bounds areas. For instance, if a ball hits the top of the wall in the outfield it is considered a HR. Now if a player jumps up and hits the top with his body or arm before catching the ball it seems to be called an out. Beni did it once when he caught the ball and fell into a table. I guess i would have to read the rule in total to understand the distinction.

[sk7326]

this is a great post on this. the only thing i would add is that both his feet were over the playing field when he makes contact with the ball. i believe that is the rule.

 

it's basically akin to the football sideline rule - he has to be "inbounds" when he secures possession (or in the field of play - by whatever the defitinion is) ... his momentum can take him anywhere after, but he has to hold the ball the entire way

[illinoisredsox]

So a player can make a legal catch so long as he is not touched down in the out of bounds area. If a player leaps, but has not as yet alit, even though he may have his body out of bounds he may make a legal catch? This begs the question I would think about whether the tops of the walls are out of bounds areas. For instance, if a ball hits the top of the wall in the outfield it is considered a HR. Now if a player jumps up and hits the top with his body or arm before catching the ball it seems to be called an out. Beni did it once when he caught the ball and fell into a table. I guess i would have to read the rule in total to understand the distinction.

Rule 5.09 (a )(1) Comment (Rule 6.05(a ) Comment )

: A fielder

may reach into, but not step into, a dugout to make a catch, and

if he holds the ball, the catch shall be allowed. A fielder, in

order to make a catch on a foul ball nearing a dugout or other

out-of-play area (such as the stands), must have one or both

feet on or over the playing surface (including the lip of the

dugout) and neither foot on the ground inside the dugout or in

any other out-of-play area. Ball is in play, unless the fielder,

after making a legal catch, steps or falls into a dugout or other

out-of-play area, in which case the ball is dead. Status of run-

ners shall be as described in Rule 5.06 ((3)© Comment

(Rule 7.04 © Comment).

 

 

 

Catch Comment

: A catch is legal if the ball is finally held by

any fielder, even though juggled, or held by another fielder

before it touches the ground. Runners may leave their bases the

instant the first fielder touches the ball. A fielder may reach

over a fence, railing, rope or other line of demarcation to make

a catch. He may jump on top of a railing, or canvas that may be

in foul ground. No interference should be allowed when a

fielder reaches over a fence, railing, rope or into a stand to

catch a ball. He does so at his own risk.

If a fielder, attempting a catch at the edge of the dugout, is

“held up” and kept from an apparent fall by a player or players

of either team and the catch is made, it shall be allowed.

 

2017 Official Baseball Rules_2017 Official Baseball Rules

Page 39

 

The referenced part about the runner(s) basically says if the fielder makes a legal catch and carries the ball out of play (i.e., he is completely in the stands/bullpen/dugout), each runner advances one base. The second part sounds like the fielder would be allowed to to use the top of the wall to propel himself up to make a catch (if he could figure out a way to keep a foot still in play, not sure the laws of physics would allow that).

Edited August 3, 2017 by illinoisredsox

[oldtimer]

Rule 5.09 (a )(1) Comment (Rule 6.05(a ) Comment )

: A fielder

may reach into, but not step into, a dugout to make a catch, and

if he holds the ball, the catch shall be allowed. A fielder, in

order to make a catch on a foul ball nearing a dugout or other

out-of-play area (such as the stands), must have one or both

feet on or over the playing surface (including the lip of the

dugout) and neither foot on the ground inside the dugout or in

any other out-of-play area. Ball is in play, unless the fielder,

after making a legal catch, steps or falls into a dugout or other

out-of-play area, in which case the ball is dead. Status of run-

ners shall be as described in Rule 5.06 ((3)© Comment

(Rule 7.04 © Comment).

 

 

 

Catch Comment

: A catch is legal if the ball is finally held by

any fielder, even though juggled, or held by another fielder

before it touches the ground. Runners may leave their bases the

instant the first fielder touches the ball. A fielder may reach

over a fence, railing, rope or other line of demarcation to make

a catch. He may jump on top of a railing, or canvas that may be

in foul ground. No interference should be allowed when a

fielder reaches over a fence, railing, rope or into a stand to

catch a ball. He does so at his own risk.

If a fielder, attempting a catch at the edge of the dugout, is

“held up” and kept from an apparent fall by a player or players

of either team and the catch is made, it shall be allowed.

 

2017 Official Baseball Rules_2017 Official Baseball Rules

Page 39

 

The referenced part about the runner(s) basically says if the fielder makes a legal catch and carries the ball out of play (i.e., he is completely in the stands/bullpen/dugout), each runner advances one base. The second part sounds like the fielder would be allowed to to use the top of the wall to propel himself up to make a catch (if he could figure out a way to keep a foot still in play, not sure the laws of physics would allow that).

 

Thanks. Upon reading it, I get the impression that a fielder could grab the top of the wall (Out of play), pull himself another couple of feet higher, catch the ball and it would be legal so long as his feet remained in or over the field of play. Not a likely play but possible. Even a fan could reach over and help pull the fielder higher, although that might be fan interference. The right field and at Fenway is low enough to allow for that and several parks have that possibility.

[Larry Cook]

Bogey is still not getting the job done offensively. Do we need to rest or dl him?

[moonslav59]

Bogey is still not getting the job done offensively. Do we need to rest or dl him?

 

When Pedey comes back, we can move Nunez to SS and give Bogey 10 days off.

 

I'm not a doctor, so I'm not going to pretend to know more than the Sox brass, but it looks like he needs an extended rest.

 

Maybe just 2-3 days will do. maybe a day off every 4-5 days for a while will work.

 

Now that Moreland seems to be coming out of his slump, I'm not sure we'll need Nunez at DH as much as I originally thought he'd be used. To me, it looks like giving Bogey a break might be best.

[Larry Cook]

When Pedey comes back, we can move Nunez to SS and give Bogey 10 days off.

 

I'm not a doctor, so I'm not going to pretend to know more than the Sox brass, but it looks like he needs an extended rest.

 

Maybe just 2-3 days will do. maybe a day off every 4-5 days for a while will work.

 

Now that Moreland seems to be coming out of his slump, I'm not sure we'll need Nunez at DH as much as I originally thought he'd be used. To me, it looks like giving Bogey a break might be best.

 

I support this line of thinking.

[moonslav59]

I support this line of thinking.

 

If we can get Bogey back to hitting near .800, our line-up could be solid.

 

vs RHPs

1) Pedey

2) Beni

3) Nunez DH

4) Betts

5) Devers

6) HRam 1B

7) JBJ

8) Bogey

9) Vaz

 

vs LHPs

1) Pedey

2) Bogey

3) Nunez DH

4) Betts

5) Devers

6) HRam 1B

7) JBJ

8) Beni

9) Vaz

 

Bench:

Moreland

Holt

Young

Leon

 

[oldtimer]

When Beni pulls the ball he is much more effective. He had one ground rule double into the pen in right center last night. His bat is important so lets hope he gains confidence after the great night and it carries forward.

[sk7326]

When Beni pulls the ball he is much more effective. He had one ground rule double into the pen in right center last night. His bat is important so lets hope he gains confidence after the great night and it carries forward.

 

Bogaerts looks like this past week he is squaring up the ball much better - results have been slow - but more hard contact.