Sox hitting??

[MADSTORK]

Agree, Farrell said after the game that RHB are hitting .300 against Colome, but that's not how it works. Moreland's hit showed me that LHB might have been the answer THAT day. You need to watch the game, how Pitcher is throwing, what Catcher is calling.

I would have batted JBJ in a heartbeat. We didn't get 1 hard hit by any Right handed bats yesterday, against him. Betts had 3-0 count and hit a weak fly ball.

What's Bill Belichick say about stats?

 

 

This is why Farrell gets a bad wrap for his in game managing. No reason not to hit JB yesterday as you said, Morelands hit should have been enough to take another shot with a lefty vs the closer.....

[Maxbialystock]

Agree, Farrell said after the game that RHB are hitting .300 against Colome, but that's not how it works. Moreland's hit showed me that LHB might have been the answer THAT day. You need to watch the game, how Pitcher is throwing, what Catcher is calling.

I would have batted JBJ in a heartbeat. We didn't get 1 hard hit by any Right handed bats yesterday, against him. Betts had 3-0 count and hit a weak fly ball.

What's Bill Belichick say about stats?

 

Maybe you need to watch the game more closely or at least have better situational awareness. I would have been fine with going with JBJ instead of Young, but let's get a few things straight on why Young wasn't such a bad choice.

 

First and foremost, the bases were loaded, so the Sox did not need a hard hit ball to tie the game. What they needed was a smart hitter--Young, not JBJ--who just might draw that critical walk to tie the game. Even a dinky single would have won the game. Young did in fact have a pretty smart at bat, but the ump gave Colome the benefit of the doubt on that first pitch which was below the zone and also on the two pitches on the inside corner (but callable as strikes).

 

Second, JBJ would have been coming into the game cold as a pinch hitter, a role he has been used very sparingly in. Moreland got that double on his 4th at bat. Young was also on his 4th at bat.

 

Third, Young hits righties better than JBJ and hits Tampa pitching better than JBJ. Plus, as I've already said, I think he is a smarter hitter and more likely to draw a walk.

 

Fourth, the Sox had a grand total of 3 hits and 27 outs in that game, so to me it's kind of silly to say, "boy, if only JBJ got to the plate, he was sure to get a hit because everyone knows, "lefties rule." Did I forget to mention that Beni and Lin were also hitless Saturday? Or that 2 of the Sox three hits in that game were by righties, Bogaerts and Betts?

 

So, I say again, I would have been fine with JBJ hitting, but I sure as heck don't see a grievous error by Farrell for sending Young up there. To the contrary, I see excellent situational awareness and real thought.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe you need to watch the game more closely or at least have better situational awareness. I would have been fine with going with JBJ instead of Young, but let's get a few things straight on why Young wasn't such a bad choice.

 

First and foremost, the bases were loaded, so the Sox did not need a hard hit ball to tie the game. What they needed was a smart hitter--Young, not JBJ--who just might draw that critical walk to tie the game. Even a dinky single would have won the game. Young did in fact have a pretty smart at bat, but the ump gave Colome the benefit of the doubt on that first pitch which was below the zone and also on the two pitches on the inside corner (but callable as strikes).

 

Second, JBJ would have been coming into the game cold as a pinch hitter, a role he has been used very sparingly in. Moreland got that double on his 4th at bat. Young was also on his 4th at bat.

 

Third, Young hits righties better than JBJ and hits Tampa pitching better than JBJ. Plus, as I've already said, I think he is a smarter hitter and more likely to draw a walk.

 

Fourth, the Sox had a grand total of 3 hits and 27 outs in that game, so to me it's kind of silly to say, "boy, if only JBJ got to the plate, he was sure to get a hit because everyone knows, "lefties rule." Did I forget to mention that Beni and Lin were also hitless Saturday? Or that 2 of the Sox three hits in that game were by righties, Bogaerts and Betts?

 

So, I say again, I would have been fine with JBJ hitting, but I sure as heck don't see a grievous error by Farrell for sending Young up there. To the contrary, I see excellent situational awareness and real thought.

 

Yes, it was a decision that can be questioned but one that he had reasons for.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

We are dealing with a small sample size, but Lin looks like a lead-off hitter right now, with 7 BB, 10 Ks, a .435 OBP. If the Red Sox stand pat at 3b, knowing they have the option of calling up Devers later in the season, and address the weakness at DH (trade for J.Bruce), their lineup could look like this:

 

Lin 3b

Pedroia 2b

Bruce DH

Betts RF

Moreland 1b

Bogaerts SS

Bradley CF

Benintendi LF

Vazquez C

 

With Hanley playing either 1b or DH against lefties.

 

If Lin isn't the real deal, you bring up Devers (Holt is an option too). If Lin keeps producing, he is your 3b (and lead off hitter) going forward. The Red Sox don't necessarily need to trade for a 3b, since Lin, Devers, and Holt are all possibilities at 3b. The Red Sox could use an upgrade at the DH spot--Bruce is a superior offensive player to Hanley. If Hanley starts hitting, Bruce can play 1b for Moreland if he slumps in the second half.

 

The conventional wisdom says the Red Sox need a 3b, but perhaps they need a 1b/DH offensive upgrade even more so.

[moonslav59]

We are dealing with a small sample size, but Lin looks like a lead-off hitter right now, with 7 BB, 10 Ks, a .435 OBP. If the Red Sox stand pat at 3b, knowing they have the option of calling up Devers later in the season, and address the weakness at DH (trade for J.Bruce), their lineup could look like this:

 

Lin 3b

Pedroia 2b

Bruce DH

Betts RF

Moreland 1b

Bogaerts SS

Bradley CF

Benintendi LF

Vazquez C

 

With Hanley playing either 1b or DH against lefties.

 

If Lin isn't the real deal, you bring up Devers (Holt is an option too). If Lin keeps producing, he is your 3b (and lead off hitter) going forward. The Red Sox don't necessarily need to trade for a 3b, since Lin, Devers, and Holt are all possibilities at 3b. The Red Sox could use an upgrade at the DH spot--Bruce is a superior offensive player to Hanley. If Hanley starts hitting, Bruce can play 1b for Moreland if he slumps in the second half.

 

The conventional wisdom says the Red Sox need a 3b, but perhaps they need a 1b/DH offensive upgrade even more so.

 

HRam is not going to be benched. Plus, he's hitting RHPs better than LHPs.

Jay Bruce is not the answer.

Lin at lead off would be a big mistake.

[Maxbialystock]

HRam is not going to be benched. Plus, he's hitting RHPs better than LHPs.

Jay Bruce is not the answer.

Lin at lead off would be a big mistake.

 

Sensible, as always (or almost always).

[fxkatt]

We are dealing with a small sample size, but Lin looks like a lead-off hitter right now, with 7 BB, 10 Ks, a .435 OBP. If the Red Sox stand pat at 3b, knowing they have the option of calling up Devers later in the season, and address the weakness at DH (trade for J.Bruce), their lineup could look like this:

 

Lin 3b

Pedroia 2b

Bruce DH

Betts RF

Moreland 1b

Bogaerts SS

Bradley CF

Benintendi LF

Vazquez C

 

With Hanley playing either 1b or DH against lefties.

 

If Lin isn't the real deal, you bring up Devers (Holt is an option too). If Lin keeps producing, he is your 3b (and lead off hitter) going forward. The Red Sox don't necessarily need to trade for a 3b, since Lin, Devers, and Holt are all possibilities at 3b. The Red Sox could use an upgrade at the DH spot--Bruce is a superior offensive player to Hanley. If Hanley starts hitting, Bruce can play 1b for Moreland if he slumps in the second half.

 

The conventional wisdom says the Red Sox need a 3b, but perhaps they need a 1b/DH offensive upgrade even more so.

 

If Lin can be consistent, I much prefer this line-up. And I think Bruce would be perfect here--if his price is reasonable.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I'm not married to the idea of Lin in the leadoff spot, but he seems to have a little B.Gardner in him--patience, high OBP, good contact skills--and such characteristics are good qualities for a leadoff hitter. With that said, if he stops producing, the Red Sox will need to find someone else.

 

HRam is not going to be benched. Plus, he's hitting RHPs better than LHPs.

 

He has a higher OPS against lefties this year than righties (around .100 better). He traditionally hits lefties better too. He currently has a 106 OPS+ -- if you can upgrade the position, you upgrade it. Hanley will still get playing time. And he will start every game against lefties.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[bosoxmal]

I just watched three of the many 'Ted Williams Hitting Instruction" videos. All pretty much the same, showing some of the same clips. But three things stand out:

 

1, Steady head

2. WAIT

3. QUICK

4 And the one Mookie needs to watch: STEADY BAT. No waving, no twirling. Slight movement at the right time.

 

C'mon, Mook!

[moonslav59]

I don't get the fascination with Bruce.

 

We have 3 OF'ers and a healthy 4th OF'er that is showing signs of life.

 

Bruce is not going to oust HRam at DH, plus we may want to have Young DH vs LHPs, if HRam can ever play 1B again.

 

If we're getting an impact bat, and I'm not even sure Bruce isn't due for one of his long streaks of futility, it should be 3B (rental) or possibly 1B or Catcher. Those are the only areas we are struggling at right now or project to going forward.

[moonslav59]

I'm not married to the idea of Lin in the leadoff spot, but he seems to have a little B.Gardner in him--patience, high OBP, good contact skills--and such characteristics are good qualities for a leadoff hitter. With that said, if he stops producing, the Red Sox will need to find someone else.

 

 

 

He has a higher OPS against lefties this year than righties (around .100 better). He traditionally hits lefties better too. He currently has a 106 OPS+ -- if you can upgrade the position, you upgrade it. Hanley will still get playing time. And he will start every game against lefties.

 

It's a tiny sample size to begin with and now you're splitting it into two teenie tiny sample sizes.

 

The guy has 5 freakin PAs vs LHPs!

 

Also, I'm not sure I'd call him "traditionally" better vs LHPs, and besides, I'd prefer he was better vs RHPs, so Marrero could play vs only LH'd starters.

 

Lin's splits

 

2017 AA (He never did well enough to even be promoted to AAA!)

.870 vs LHPs (only 35 ABs)

.870 vs RHPs (124 ABss, which looks close to a platoon situation with the PAs differential, and if you look at 2016, you'd see why they platooned him.)

 

2016

.429 vs LHPs (77 ABS)

.620 vs RHPs (295 ABs)

 

I don't see what you see.

 

[Fan_since_Boggs]

 

Bruce is not going to oust HRam at DH,

 

If we're getting an impact bat, and I'm not even sure Bruce isn't due for one of his long streaks of futility, it should be 3B (rental) or possibly 1B or Catcher. Those are the only areas we are struggling at right now or project to going forward.

 

Bruce is a better hitter than Ramirez this year. Duda is having a better year too.

 

I'm open to other impact bats, but I'm not sure who that might be and, more importantly, what it might cost. J.Bour would be an excellent choice, but he is under control for three more seasons and will likely cost Devers or Groome. In contrast, Bruce and Duda are free agents at the end of the season and the Mets don't plan to resign either player. The Royals aren't trading Moustakas--and so there is no real impact bat available at 3b. I'm open to Frazier but he isn't hitting as well as Moustakas or Bruce. The trick is to obtain an offensive upgrade without giving up one of our two top prospects: Devers or Groome. And that is why I see Bruce and Duda as feasible (and practical) options for the Red Sox. We are looking for a hitter who has been producing at a high level and is extremely motivated to continue producing at a high level over the last two months of the season and into October to increase his free agent market.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

He has a higher OPS against lefties this year than righties (around .100 better). He traditionally hits lefties better too. He currently has a 106 OPS+ -- if you can upgrade the position, you upgrade it. Hanley will still get playing time. And he will start every game against lefties.

 

Correction: the "he" is Hanley Ramirez, not Lin. I should have made that clearer.

 

Thus, it should read: "Hanley has a higher OPS against lefties this year than righties (around .100 better). He traditionally hits lefties better too. He currently has a 106 OPS+ -- if you can upgrade the position, you upgrade it. Hanley will still get playing time. And he will start every game against lefties."

[moonslav59]

Correction: the "he" is Hanley Ramirez, not Lin. I should have made that clearer.

 

Thus, it should read: "Hanley has a higher OPS against lefties this year than righties (around .100 better). He traditionally hits lefties better too. He currently has a 106 OPS+ -- if you can upgrade the position, you upgrade it. Hanley will still get playing time. And he will start every game against lefties."

 

Okay, sorry for going a little over board with my response.

 

I'm just not even close to thinking about benching or platooning HRam. Maybe his injury is worse than we know, but

and he won't get much better vs RHPs the rest of the way,

 

He had a bad April (.719), which actually wasn't horrible.

 

He's been significantly over .800 since may 1st. He's one of our hottest hitters. He has a long history of ups and downs, but more ups than downs. Some of his "ups" have been doozies!

 

After Betts, JBJ, Bogey and Pedey, he's the next guy I'd avoid benching or platooning.

 

I'm fine with platooning Beni & Young.

 

Moreland & Travis.

 

Lin & Marrero.

 

Vaz & Leon.

 

But not HRam.

 

He hit .855 in his last 20 games and 1.017 in his last 11 games.

 

I'm not sure Bruce will do as well as HRam here on out, and even if he does, it probably won't be by much.

 

I prefer to upgrade at our weakest links not one of our strongest with a player who had a 2 year stretch of futility just 2 years ago.

 

Red Sox hottest hitters;

Last 14 days

1.017 HRam

.988 Pedey

.975 Marrero

.950 Betts

.941 Beni

.931 JBJ

.886 Lin

.753 Young

.561 Bogey

.426 Moreland

 

Last 28 days

.935 JBJ

.892 Beni

.871 Lin

.855 HRam

.797 Pedey

.790 Bogey

.618 Moreland

 

If we got Bruce, I'd be more inclined to bench or platoon Moreland and force HRam to play 1B.

 

Yeah, the 23 HRs by Bruce are nice, but he won't come cheap. He plays the wrong position.

 

He's been great against RHPs (.945 this year), but HRam has done well vs righties in his career.

 

FYI

Bruce OPS

last 14 days .804

last 28 days .830

 

Both worse than HRam.

[moonslav59]

Bruce is a better hitter than Ramirez this year. Duda is having a better year too.

 

I'm open to other impact bats, but I'm not sure who that might be and, more importantly, what it might cost. J.Bour would be an excellent choice, but he is under control for three more seasons and will likely cost Devers or Groome. In contrast, Bruce and Duda are free agents at the end of the season and the Mets don't plan to resign either player. The Royals aren't trading Moustakas--and so there is no real impact bat available at 3b. I'm open to Frazier but he isn't hitting as well as Moustakas or Bruce. The trick is to obtain an offensive upgrade without giving up one of our two top prospects: Devers or Groome. And that is why I see Bruce and Duda as feasible (and practical) options for the Red Sox. We are looking for a hitter who has been producing at a high level and is extremely motivated to continue producing at a high level over the last two months of the season and into October to increase his free agent market.

 

I don't want to trade Devers and Groome, but if I do, I'm wanting Beltre or Donaldson over an OF'er with more ups and downs than a yo-yo.

 

He had a nice 4 year stretch from 2010 to 2013, but he's too unpredictable for me to want to trade top prospects for.

 

2014 .654

2015 .729

2016 .815 (.685 with the Mets after the trade)

2017 .872 (his career best at age 30)

 

No Thanks.

[oldtimer]

I don't want to trade Devers and Groome, but if I do, I'm wanting Beltre or Donaldson over an OF'er with more ups and downs than a yo-yo.

 

He had a nice 4 year stretch from 2010 to 2013, but he's too unpredictable for me to want to trade top prospects for.

 

2014 .654

2015 .729

2016 .815 (.685 with the Mets after the trade)

2017 .872 (his career best at age 30)

 

No Thanks.

 

I don't want to trade Devers or Groome period. I can't see any addition that is even remotely possible as being worth either of them. Beltre would be good but we would have to get him for less.

[mvp 78]

Beltre for Devers? Nope.

 

Donaldson for Devers? Donaldson is 11 years older and is a FA next offseason. The Jays are actively looking to move him. I think you could get Donaldson for a lot less than Devers right now.

[moonslav59]

I don't want to trade Devers or Groome period. I can't see any addition that is even remotely possible as being worth either of them. Beltre would be good but we would have to get him for less.

 

I would not trade Devers or Groome either, but at least Beltre and Donaldson have 1.5 years of control.

 

Trading either of these two for just a two month rental will probably be reason enough for me to start suggesting firing DD. (Maybe)

[moonslav59]

Beltre for Devers? Nope.

 

Donaldson for Devers? Donaldson is 11 years older and is a FA next offseason. The Jays are actively looking to move him. I think you could get Donaldson for a lot less than Devers right now.

 

Donaldson has one more arb year left.

[Jack Flap]

I would not trade Devers or Groome either, but at least Beltre and Donaldson have 1.5 years of control.

 

Trading either of these two for just a two month rental will probably be reason enough for me to start suggesting firing DD. (Maybe)

 

In fairness to Dombrowski, all of his costliest trades since joining the Sox (Kimbrel, Smith, Pomeranz, Sale, Thornburg) have been for guys with multiple years of control. I think trading Devers or Groome for a rental would be a bridge too far even for him...though it probably helps that the rental types who are out there (at least for third base) just aren't terribly appealing anyway.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say those two guys stay put. I'm more concerned about us overpaying in secondary pieces for someone like Frazier or Prado.

[moonslav59]

In fairness to Dombrowski, all of his costliest trades since joining the Sox (Kimbrel, Smith, Pomeranz, Sale, Thornburg) have been for guys with multiple years of control. I think trading Devers or Groome for a rental would be a bridge too far even for him...though it probably helps that the rental types who are out there (at least for third base) just aren't terribly appealing anyway.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say those two guys stay put. I'm more concerned about us overpaying in secondary pieces for someone like Frazier or Prado.

 

What's an "overpay" to you?

 

Would Ockimey, Lakin and Beeks be too much for Frazier or Prado & Phelps & Cash?

 

How about Chavis and Lakins?

[Spudboy]

What's an "overpay" to you?

 

Would Ockimey, Lakin and Beeks be too much for Frazier or Prado & Phelps & Cash?

 

How about Chavis and Lakins?

 

Aren't the Marlins just looking to trim payroll as a lead-up to a sale of the team? If so, how focused are they on attaining top shelf prospects in return?

 

In any case I am against paying good money for bad after the expensive mistake of the Pablow deal.

 

Live with what you have now.

 

Unless you have a top 3rd bagger as a trade target.

[mvp 78]

What's an "overpay" to you?

 

Would Ockimey, Lakin and Beeks be too much for Frazier or Prado & Phelps & Cash?

 

How about Chavis and Lakins?

 

I wouldn't trade Ockimey, Lakin and Beeks for either Frazier or Prado. Prado is too much money. Frazier is playing like garbage.

[Jack Flap]

What's an "overpay" to you?

 

Would Ockimey, Lakin and Beeks be too much for Frazier or Prado & Phelps & Cash?

 

How about Chavis and Lakins?

 

Just personally, I wouldn't make either of those trades. I'd much rather have Frazier than Prado at this point, but I get the feeling that the asking price is going to be higher than I'd be willing to go.

 

More and more I'm warming up to the idea that standing pat with regards to 3B wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

[moonslav59]

I wouldn't trade Ockimey, Lakin and Beeks for either Frazier or Prado. Prado is too much money. Frazier is playing like garbage.

 

I wouldn't either, but my question was aimed at finding out the most you would trade for Frazier or Prado/Phelps.

 

(Note: My post asked about Prado + Phelps, not just Prado.)

[moonslav59]

I would give Ockimey and Beeks for Prado, Phelps & some cash. I would give Ockimey for Frazier straight up but no more.

[Emp9]

http://rumbunter.com/2017/07/11/pittsburgh-pirates-red-sox-and-harrison-a-match/

[moonslav59]

http://rumbunter.com/2017/07/11/pittsburgh-pirates-red-sox-and-harrison-a-match/

 

No to Chavis & Lakins for Harrison.

 

I might give Ockimey and Beeks, especially if Pitt paid some cash.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

FYI

Bruce OPS

last 14 days .804

last 28 days .830

 

Both worse than HRam.

 

While I don't have the data in front of me, I suspect Bruce's OPS against RHP over the last 28 days is superior to Hanley's.

 

I want the Red Sox to add some depth, even if that means that Duda/Bruce won't be playing everyday. If Hanley and Moreland are red hot, sure, Duda/Bruce will spend some time on the bench. In the meantime, the Red Sox would have the depth to handle an injury and there is a relatively good chance that Hanley or Moreland will struggle offensively at times in the second half, and giving Hanley Ramirez an occasional day off against a tough righty seems like a pretty good strategy to me. Bruce is a lousy OF, but he would actually provide the Red Sox some depth in the corner outfield positions (as well as DH and 1b) and Chris Young isn't producing this year. And Sam Travis hasn't proved he can perform at a high level against AAA pitching, not to mention major league pitching. Travis is lousy depth IMO.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[cp176]

What would a trade for a rent a third baseman accomplish for this team is the question that DD has to answer. My guess would be not much in the long run. Might make us feel better but if it doesn't provide the type of upgrade that will make this team significantly better in the short term, why do it? Trade no one for a rest of the year rental.