Sox hitting??

[moonslav59]

Is it a lack of fire or a lack of joy on this team. I think that most of the players have a lot of desire, but I really don't think they have a lot of joy. Losing Ortiz was not just losing a big bat, but losing it's soul in many ways. He was the heartbeat of the clubhouse. Maybe that is what we are seeing.

 

You could very well be right, and it's hard to see and identify "desire" or the lack of it.

 

It's just my opinion.

[Bellhorn04]

Personally I have seen some good spirit and desire with this team. After all, they just won a 19 inning game that they trailed 2-0 going to the 9th. They seem to me to be having fun, what with the outfield dance and the little ritual they have after a home run with Mookie taking the guy's helmet off.

 

They now have 10 walkoff wins, which I assume is pretty close to the most.

 

None of that stuff even matters that much to me, all I really care about is the W-L record.

[a700hitter]

You could very well be right, and it's hard to see and identify "desire" or the lack of it.

 

It's just my opinion.

I had the same feeling about the team, but as I posted after the 19 inning game -- that game changed my mind. That game took persistence and desire to hang in there and win. So, I think the desire is there, but there isn't a lot of joy on that team without the big guy no matter how many dances the outfielders choreograph.

[cp176]

Is it a lack of fire or a lack of joy on this team. I think that most of the players have a lot of desire, but I really don't think they have a lot of joy. Losing Ortiz was not just losing a big bat, but losing it's soul in many ways. He was the heartbeat of the clubhouse. Maybe that is what we are seeing.

 

You very well might be right but I also think that with that big bat and leader out of the lineup, any number of weaknesses have been exposed. I think that overall this year these guys have worked their nuts off to get where they are right now. Sale, Pomeranz, Fister, Kimbrel, Nunez, Devers - these guys have been able to breathe some life into the organization and have helped win more games than I felt they could after watching them for a while. I don't agree with the folks who claim that all of our regulars except for one are having off years. I think that they have been over rated. That being said though, I won't be the one who predicts that any team will handle them easily in a series. I probably shouldn't be admitting this here, but I can't stay up very late to watch them anymore so when someone other than Sale or Fister is pitching, I'm normally out by 9:30. Now, I have fallen asleep a number of times this season when they have been really behind only to wake up the next morning to find out that they won the goddam game. I think that they need help but I think that with all of the stupid base running and fielding blunders that they have made it is amazing that this bunch is where they are in the standings. You just never know.

[S5Dewey]

You could very well be right, and it's hard to see and identify "desire" or the lack of it.

 

 

Are you saying that these things aren't statistically quantifiable but they exist???

[S5Dewey]

You very well might be right but I also think that with that big bat and leader out of the lineup, any number of weaknesses have been exposed. I think that overall this year these guys have worked their nuts off to get where they are right now. Sale, Pomeranz, Fister, Kimbrel, Nunez, Devers - these guys have been able to breathe some life into the organization and have helped win more games than I felt they could after watching them for a while. I don't agree with the folks who claim that all of our regulars except for one are having off years. I think that they have been over rated. That being said though, I won't be the one who predicts that any team will handle them easily in a series. I probably shouldn't be admitting this here, but I can't stay up very late to watch them anymore so when someone other than Sale or Fister is pitching, I'm normally out by 9:30. Now, I have fallen asleep a number of times this season when they have been really behind only to wake up the next morning to find out that they won the goddam game. I think that they need help but I think that with all of the stupid base running and fielding blunders that they have made it is amazing that this bunch is where they are in the standings. You just never know.

IMO the thing they're proving is that they have trouble hitting anything better than mediocre starting pitching, and they fatten up on the relievers. I used to 'nod off' early but now I make an effort to stay awake just so I can watch the comeback. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but when it does it's worth watching.

[moonslav59]

I had the same feeling about the team, but as I posted after the 19 inning game -- that game changed my mind. That game took persistence and desire to hang in there and win. So, I think the desire is there, but there isn't a lot of joy on that team without the big guy no matter how many dances the outfielders choreograph.

 

It's not just missing joy to me, but your point is well taken.

 

I'm not discounting the loss of Papi as a major factor in the lessening signs of joy.

 

I just don't seem to see (or feel, I guess) that this team has a strong will to win. Grit. Determination. Whatever you want to call it. It's just a gut feeling I've felt watching these guys all year. That being said, I've never thought watching guys break their bats or throw things in the dugout in disgust after making is the type of positive energy that contributes to a team's well-being. To me, that is not the "fire and desire" I like to see. I'm talking more about the dugout seeming more alive and caring about what's going on in the game. They seem distracted or uninterested. I could be wrong about my perception. I understand that. Trying to read body language, thoughts and feelings from a TV set has severe limitations. I've only seen 7 games live.

 

I hope I'm wrong, and I'm not really sure that even if I'm right, "fire and desire" is really important, if the the skill is there.

 

Maybe a few big wins when crunch time really comes can instill some fire. Maybe the desire is already there, and I just can't see it. Maybe desire can be acquired in a short time. I'll settle for a ring from a bunch of drones over a lot of excitement and being swept in a playoff series again.

 

[moonslav59]

Are you saying that these things aren't statistically quantifiable but they exist???

 

I was waiting for this...LOL.

 

I've never denied a big part of this game is not quantifiable.

[notin]

You could very well be right, and it's hard to see and identify "desire" or the lack of it.

 

It's just my opinion.

 

While they don't look as joyful, maybe that's only because it's a different look now...

[moonslav59]

IMO the thing they're proving is that they have trouble hitting anything better than mediocre starting pitching, and they fatten up on the relievers. I used to 'nod off' early but now I make an effort to stay awake just so I can watch the comeback. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but when it does it's worth watching.

 

I don't know,we seem to be taken advantage of by a lot of stiffs, unproven pitchers and mediocre journeymen.

 

I almost feel like we've done better than expected against the best pitchers.

 

[moonslav59]

While they don't look as joyful, maybe that's only because it's a different look now...

 

Yeah, a look of not even being interested. (to me)

[Kimmi]

I've only followed baseball from the late 60's and the 162 game schedule was present then.

 

We've had a lot of days off since the all star game, and the allstar break is longer than ever.

 

I can see needing to gibe Pedey a break, but not 22-24 year olds.

 

I get the sitting for slump argument, but these youngsters should not look or be tired.

 

I heard on the telecast last night that we've played the equivalent of 4 extra games so far this season with all of the extra inning games. Those are mentally extra taxing as well as being physically extra taxing. Additionally, I'm pretty sure we have played the most 4+ hour long 9 inning games. All of that surely contributes to how tired our players are.

[Northern Star]

I heard on the telecast last night that we've played the equivalent of 4 extra games so far this season with all of the extra inning games. Those are mentally extra taxing as well as being physically extra taxing. Additionally, I'm pretty sure we have played the most 4+ hour long 9 inning games. All of that surely contributes to how tired our players are.

 

Yet you support playing 19 innings games....

[Kimmi]

Yet you support playing 19 innings games....

 

Over starting the inning with a runner at 2nd base? Absolutely!

[Northern Star]

You could very well be right, and it's hard to see and identify "desire" or the lack of it.

 

It's just my opinion.

 

What desire do players have when they're on a multi-year contract for big bucks and all of it completely guaranteed, regardless of whether they bust their ass or slack off?

[illinoisredsox]

What desire do players have when they're on a multi-year contract for big bucks and all of it completely guaranteed, regardless of whether they bust their ass or slack off?

 

I've never agreed with this sentiment. Yes, there are some players that happens to. But most athletes want to win. Period. Hanley's less than stellar season isn't because he's got a big contract. If anything, he's trying too hard. If Price were coasting, he wouldn't be trying to get back on the mound at this point of the season. Porcello just isn't that good. Outside of the W-L record,. his year is not out of norm for him careerwise. Not his fault the Sox offered him the contract they did. Pedroia, Kimbrel and Sale also have big contracts; they have no desire? The killer B's and many others aren't making big $ yet; that's the contract they are playing to get in a few years.

 

They are not an outwardly emotional team. Betts, Bradley, Bogaerts are quiet guys by nature. They aren't going to show emotion like Papi did. That doesn't mean they lack desire.

[Nick]

I don't think motivation is a factor. Hell, they're in a middle of pennant race. Now if I'm playing for the Giants, it maybe tougher to get to the ball park.

 

Baseball is not football. You can't suddenly hit because you're fired up. Emotions only take you so far. Baseball is a skilled game.

 

You are what you hit. Just have a look at Pablo. He's in the middle of 0-38 streak. Thank you Ben. Oh what we could do with that $19M.

[Larry Cook]

I don't think motivation is a factor. Hell, they're in a middle of pennant race. Now if I'm playing for the Giants, it maybe tougher to get to the ball park.

 

Baseball is not football. You can't suddenly hit because you're fired up. Emotions only take you so far. Baseball is a skilled game.

 

You are what you hit. Just have a look at Pablo. He's in the middle of 0-38 streak. Thank you Ben. Oh what we could do with that $19M.

 

Was it really Ben or was it Larry puppeteering both signings from behind the curtain?

[Bellhorn04]

Was it really Ben or was it Larry puppeteering both signings from behind the curtain?

 

We'll never know for sure unless one of the principals airs the laundry. I think Larry was probably heavily involved, but it's just a guess.

[Larry Cook]

I have always believed that forcing Ben to sign Hanley and Pablo was the beginning of the end for Larry.

[moonslav59]

I have always believed that forcing Ben to sign Hanley and Pablo was the beginning of the end for Larry.

 

Forcing Bobby V might have been the beginning of the beginning of the end.

[cp176]

Was it really Ben or was it Larry puppeteering both signings from behind the curtain?

 

Come on - You know the answer to this one. Every bad signing during Ben Cherington's reign can be directly attributed to Larry Lucchino. Cherington = all things good - Lucchino = all things bad. How do we know this? Because we have been told! ******** - lol

[Spudboy]

We'll never know for sure unless one of the principals airs the laundry. I think Larry was probably heavily involved, but it's just a guess.

 

I'm with you on this but Ben was the GM so blame or credit stands with him.

 

Neither of them is a great talent evaluator.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Spudboy

[Spudboy]

Come on - You know the answer to this one. Every bad signing during Ben Cherington's reign can be directly attributed to Larry Lucchino. Cherington = all things good - Lucchino = all things bad. How do we know this? Because we have been told! ******** - lol

 

Well according to the authoritative pink glasses on this board that is so.

[a700hitter]

Whether Ben made all the moves or he was just a puppet, he was a lousy GM.

[Spudboy]

Whether Ben made all the moves or he was just a puppet, he was a lousy GM.

 

I think so too.

 

The Fatboy and Hanley signings were really dumb but blowing up a good rotation was beyond stupid. I have yet to hear one reasonable explanation for why that happened.

 

To me, these moves negate anything positive he may have had a hand in doing regarding the farm system.

 

Kudos for poking Wendy Nix.

[tom-uk]

Who would have thought 5 or 6 years ago when they left, that Reddick and Lowrie would still be playing in 2017, both have a higher OPS than any qualified Bosox, and the Red Sox would be in first place?

[moonslav59]

Who would have thought 5 or 6 years ago when they left, that Reddick and Lowrie would still be playing in 2017, both have a higher OPS than any qualified Bosox, and the Red Sox would be in first place?

 

True.

 

Also,

 

CC's out of baseball.

 

AGon is looking at riding the bench.

 

Ellsbury is a shell.

 

Lester is over 4.20.

 

Lackey is no longer Lackey, yet Reddick and Lowrie are thriving.

[Kimmi]

I've never agreed with this sentiment. Yes, there are some players that happens to. But most athletes want to win. Period. Hanley's less than stellar season isn't because he's got a big contract. If anything, he's trying too hard. If Price were coasting, he wouldn't be trying to get back on the mound at this point of the season. Porcello just isn't that good. Outside of the W-L record,. his year is not out of norm for him careerwise. Not his fault the Sox offered him the contract they did. Pedroia, Kimbrel and Sale also have big contracts; they have no desire? The killer B's and many others aren't making big $ yet; that's the contract they are playing to get in a few years.

 

They are not an outwardly emotional team. Betts, Bradley, Bogaerts are quiet guys by nature. They aren't going to show emotion like Papi did. That doesn't mean they lack desire.

 

I do not agree with the sentiment either. Even with a player like Pablo, I don't believe for a minute that he didn't care or that he lacked the desire to play well, just because his contract was guaranteed.

[Kimmi]

Was it really Ben or was it Larry puppeteering both signings from behind the curtain?

 

Post of the day.