Price out with forearm soreness

[Kimmi]

fyi - he is borderline "demanding" to be a starter....he wont be happy in a RP role.

 

I'm not getting that vibe at all.

 

Maybe he won't be 'happy', and I don't think any starter would be, but he'll do what is asked of him to the best of his ability.

[jad]

1). There were several consecutive posts by regular posters here who were discussing the idea.

 

2), "The Sox" was a generalization including anyone who might have any input into the Boston Red Sox strategy.

 

It's not a matter of "caring" about what anyone here thinks. It's a matter of not automatically dismissing an idea just because it doesn't come from someone within the organization.

 

And to answer your last question, assuming it's any of your business, between my ST tickets and what I spend at JB Park, my NESN package, my infrequent trips to Fenway, and the merchandise it's probably ~$2000. That doesn't give me the right to be listened to but it also doesn't rule out the possibility that I - or someone like me - might have an idea worth listening to.

 

Sorry you took my post as attacking you. I wasn't. I was simply wondering why anyone in the organization would listen to what a sports board says. We don't as a group contribute much (even if more posters are like you than me): it's not like we are about to cancel our luxury boxes. I just can't imagine anyone in any profession (a RS employee, or someone in my business or yours) thinking "I need some new ideas; I'm going to go OUTSIDE the profession to find them." People say they do that. But not many of them actually do. And I can't conceive of a RS employee on any level allowing themselves to think that we 'outsiders' know more than they do or might have ideas (good, bad or indifferent) that they haven't thought of already.

[notin]

It

My God. How did this topic take on a life of it's own??? All I said was,

 

"There's been a little speculation that the Sox read these message boards from time to time, and if they've ever considered doing anything posted here this is the time!"

 

Just to clarify, just like nearly everything else I post here, it's JUST MY OPINION!

 

The Sox and no one affiliated with them reads this message board. There are literally thousands of message boards throughout the internet dedicated to the Boston Red Sox and reading through them for good ideas is not only a full time job for a large team of people, but also not worth it since there are far more posts suggesting the Sox trade Castillo, Price, Brentz and Swihart for Giancarlo Stanton...

[S5Dewey]

Sorry you took my post as attacking you. I wasn't. I was simply wondering why anyone in the organization would listen to what a sports board says. We don't as a group contribute much (even if more posters are like you than me): it's not like we are about to cancel our luxury boxes. I just can't imagine anyone in any profession (a RS employee, or someone in my business or yours) thinking "I need some new ideas; I'm going to go OUTSIDE the profession to find them." People say they do that. But not many of them actually do. And I can't conceive of a RS employee on any level allowing themselves to think that we 'outsiders' know more than they do or might have ideas (good, bad or indifferent) that they haven't thought of already.

 

I don't think anyone in professional baseball would come to boards like this looking for ideas but I can see them having someone monitoring the boards occasionally to gauge the mood of the fans. It's a business and we're their customers so wouldn't it be in their best interest to know what their fans are thinking?

IF that's true then I could see someone reading about the idea of piggy-backing starters and mentioning that idea to someone with some real 'horsepower', who then might consider the idea. I spent a little time in local politics and I found that sometimes the best ideas came from some unexpected people.

My post on that topic was written half in jest anyway, recognizing that while it's a slim chance it still is a chance.

 

Whatever. It's all good. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

[Maxbialystock]

Wow. I just read Price is going to the bullpen because he wants to play and realizes time is too short to build back up to starting. If he can adjust, he could be very good.

[S5Dewey]

Wow. I just read Price is going to the bullpen because he wants to play and realizes time is too short to build back up to starting. If he can adjust, he could be very good.

 

Are you aware that you've just used "Price" and "very good" in the same sentence with an implication of the playoffs?

[devildavid]

I think putting Price in the bullpen is a bad move. They should shut him down until next season. They don't need Price to win a championship.

[a700hitter]

I think putting Price in the bullpen is a bad move. They should shut him down until next season. They don't need Price to win a championship.

I don't know what the plan is with this, and I am not sure that they know. Will they piggyback him on starts of other pitchers down the stretch? Will they use him in high leverage situations? Are they going to try to stretch him out in this role with the hope that he can start games in the post season?

[devildavid]

I don't know what the plan is with this, and I am not sure that they know. Will they piggyback him on starts of other pitchers down the stretch? Will they use him in high leverage situations? Are they going to try to stretch him out in this role with the hope that he can start games in the post season?

 

To quote Groucho, "Whatever it is, I'm against it!"

[a700hitter]

To quote Groucho, "Whatever it is, I'm against it!"

I loved Groucho!

[Larry Cook]

Do ucl tears heal on their own?

[a700hitter]

Do ucl tears heal on their own?

It depends on full tear or partial tear. Nolan Ryan's healed.

[SoxHop]

To quote Groucho, "Whatever it is, I'm against it!"

 

I'm a huge Groucho fan.....

 

That's one of my favorite scenes......

 

My son is right I"m quick to fight..... I always get my man.......... hand making gun symbol........

[SoxHop]

I think putting Price in the bullpen is a bad move. They should shut him down until next season. They don't need Price to win a championship.

 

What I don't get is that I think it sounds like surgery is in the forecast. I guess there are time tables to recovery and all, but If surgery was the way to go, then I would think just getting it done and overwith would have been the best thing.

 

Price adding value to the playoffs......... I have huge doubts.... there just isn't enough evaluation time......

 

but........ I haven't seen any talk of surgery, so maybe that isn't a thing.

[jacksonianmarch]

UCL tears can heal, just depends on the degree of the tear and the strength of the ligament going forward. Small tears (like Tanaka's) can heal back to nearly 100% of the integrity of the ligament. Larger tears, maybe not. What you do with a UCL tear, if you aren't operating, is you sit the player out for a few months and if symptoms recur, you operate. That didn't happen with Price. He'd be off the mound for a few weeks, try to throw again, then stiffen up, shut down, wash rinse repeat. Makes me wonder if his issue is UCL or something else (like the flexor bundle, although those injuries mask UCL tears plenty of times). Regardless, he's been shut down 3 times. Once at the beginning of the season, once after his return and once while he was ramping up to return. There is something in there

[Bellhorn04]

To quote Groucho, "Whatever it is, I'm against it!"

 

Don't leave in a huff.

 

Leave in a minute and a huff.

[jad]

I don't think anyone in professional baseball would come to boards like this looking for ideas but I can see them having someone monitoring the boards occasionally to gauge the mood of the fans. It's a business and we're their customers so wouldn't it be in their best interest to know what their fans are thinking?

IF that's true then I could see someone reading about the idea of piggy-backing starters and mentioning that idea to someone with some real 'horsepower', who then might consider the idea. I spent a little time in local politics and I found that sometimes the best ideas came from some unexpected people.

My post on that topic was written half in jest anyway, recognizing that while it's a slim chance it still is a chance.

 

Whatever. It's all good. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

 

Yeah, you're probably right on this. I guess my thinking was that no one would actually ADMIT that any idea they had came from anywhere other than their own fathomless intellect!

[mvp 78]

UCL tears can heal, just depends on the degree of the tear and the strength of the ligament going forward. Small tears (like Tanaka's) can heal back to nearly 100% of the integrity of the ligament. Larger tears, maybe not. What you do with a UCL tear, if you aren't operating, is you sit the player out for a few months and if symptoms recur, you operate. That didn't happen with Price. He'd be off the mound for a few weeks, try to throw again, then stiffen up, shut down, wash rinse repeat. Makes me wonder if his issue is UCL or something else (like the flexor bundle, although those injuries mask UCL tears plenty of times). Regardless, he's been shut down 3 times. Once at the beginning of the season, once after his return and once while he was ramping up to return. There is something in there

 

At what point do you believe surgery is inevitable? Do you think they are just trying to get through the season and deal with it this winter?

[mvp 78]

Wow. I just read Price is going to the bullpen because he wants to play and realizes time is too short to build back up to starting. If he can adjust, he could be very good.

 

I heard that he's still pouting and wants to start.

[Slasher9]

I heard that he's still pouting and wants to start.

 

+1,000,000.

i cant give my source but this is 100% true. it's good that the public image is that he will "do whatever the team wants".

[Emp9]

Can he be any worse than Porcello?

 

Good question

[Emp9]

UCL tears can heal, just depends on the degree of the tear and the strength of the ligament going forward. Small tears (like Tanaka's) can heal back to nearly 100% of the integrity of the ligament. Larger tears, maybe not. What you do with a UCL tear, if you aren't operating, is you sit the player out for a few months and if symptoms recur, you operate. That didn't happen with Price. He'd be off the mound for a few weeks, try to throw again, then stiffen up, shut down, wash rinse repeat. Makes me wonder if his issue is UCL or something else (like the flexor bundle, although those injuries mask UCL tears plenty of times). Regardless, he's been shut down 3 times. Once at the beginning of the season, once after his return and once while he was ramping up to return. There is something in there

 

Could it be just bone spurs that keep giving him trouble... coupled with a partial tear?

[FredLynn]

Could it be just bone spurs that keep giving him trouble... coupled with a partial tear?

 

Jacko said that small ligament tears can heal, but thats a little misleading. Ligaments have a very poor blood supply, so no new ligament tissue is formed, unlike, for example, bones. Ligaments "heal" with scar tissue (" In fact, evidence suggests that the injured ligament structure is replaced with tissue that is grossly, histologically, biochemically, and biomechanically similar to scar tissue.") Scar tissue does not function like a ligament, so its more that the player will need to adapt to the new biomechanics caused by the injury "healing" in the absence of replacing the ligament with surgery. Although scar tissue and ligaments are both made mostly of collagen ligaments are composed of type 1 collagen, which is more densely packed, stiffer, and stronger than the type 3 collagen in scar tissue. Bottom line: ligaments "heal" but there is generally a persistent change in joint load bearing ability due to scarring.

What is going on with Price is a bit mysterious. Clearly we are not being told the whole story.

Edited September 15, 2017 by FredLynn

[moonslav59]

Price was activated.

[FredLynn]

Price was activated.

 

It remains to be seen how effective he will be.

[notin]

Yeah, you're probably right on this. I guess my thinking was that no one would actually ADMIT that any idea they had came from anywhere other than their own fathomless intellect!

 

I would actually disagree with that.

 

Bill James was a baseball outsider whose ideas were used by MLB teams before he was hired in Boston

.

And current Cardinals GM Mike Hirsh was originally hired by St. Louis because of a paper he wrote (and submitted to all 30 teams) about the importance of first round draft picks.

 

But these are rare, and while S5 admits to have been joking, I've seen numerous other posters over the years who seemingly truly believed the Sox.read their message boards for ideas, which defies a lot of odds and is a bit silly

[oldtimer]

I would actually disagree with that.

 

Bill James was a baseball outsider whose ideas were used by MLB teams before he was hired in Boston

.

And current Cardinals GM Mike Hirsh was originally hired by St. Louis because of a paper he wrote (and submitted to all 30 teams) about the importance of first round draft picks.

 

But these are rare, and while S5 admits to have been joking, I've seen numerous other posters over the years who seemingly truly believed the Sox.read their message boards for ideas, which defies a lot of odds and is a bit silly

 

I think the BB execs like Dombrowski are busy people but imagine they might look at the boards from time to time, just as the players might. They rightly believe they have superior knowledge and experience to the posters, on the other hand, many posters have been fans for a very long time, are educated and have professional backgrounds and also tend to see things without pre-conceived ideas or alliances of the BB community. After listening to John Valentin's cliche laced color support of the broadcast last night, one wonders if many BB people have so little to offer. So unlike you, I think the execs and players scan the boards and may actually find some nuggets there.

[Kimmi]

Do ucl tears heal on their own?

 

Price's does. He has a magic elbow.

[Kimmi]

I would actually disagree with that.

 

Bill James was a baseball outsider whose ideas were used by MLB teams before he was hired in Boston

.

And current Cardinals GM Mike Hirsh was originally hired by St. Louis because of a paper he wrote (and submitted to all 30 teams) about the importance of first round draft picks.

 

But these are rare, and while S5 admits to have been joking, I've seen numerous other posters over the years who seemingly truly believed the Sox.read their message boards for ideas, which defies a lot of odds and is a bit silly

 

The thing is, organizations have some very good and very smart people working for them, and lots of them. It's what they do for a living, unlike us who do baseball as a pastime. I'm not saying that people here aren't baseball smart, but I am extremely confident that if we think of an idea here that is worthy of consideration, it has already been considered within the organization.

[Kimmi]

I think the BB execs like Dombrowski are busy people but imagine they might look at the boards from time to time, just as the players might. They rightly believe they have superior knowledge and experience to the posters, on the other hand, many posters have been fans for a very long time, are educated and have professional backgrounds and also tend to see things without pre-conceived ideas or alliances of the BB community. After listening to John Valentin's cliche laced color support of the broadcast last night, one wonders if many BB people have so little to offer. So unlike you, I think the execs and players scan the boards and may actually find some nuggets there.

 

I know for a fact that they scan sites like Fangraphs and Baseball Prospectus, and rightly so. They have hired many former contributors to those sites to work in their organizations. Perhaps someone in the organization scans Talksox (I really don't think they do), but if they are, I'm not sure that we are enlightening them to anything they don't already know or have already considered.