3rd Third III

[Emp9]

yes. if someone is stating that Devers should already be up they are saying they know more than the FO.

 

It's subjective. It's like that fairly tale with the King demanding only the freshest strawberries in the kingdom for some desert. To find out if they're up to snuff, he eats all the strawberries leaving none for the actual desert. That's not important right now. Point is, they don't know for a fact on how Devers would do if they brought him up right now. Neither do we.

[Emp9]

"..there is talk he has issues dealing and adjusting to breaking balls."

 

 

This would be my guess. I also heard he can adjust pretty well though.

[moonslav59]

And Marerro hits breaking balls well? Isn't it a question of is Devers a better option? Lots of players are brought up without a lot of development time because they are good. Trout was brought up at age 19. Woulld the Sox management argued to keep him in the minors to let mim develop more fully?

 

I've said before, it appears Devers is ready now, to me, but I am trusting Sox management to know the right time to bring him up. Maybe my trust is misplaced, but I think they know more than we do.

[moonslav59]

I would be very surprised if Pablo gets another real shot. I'm not sure he has even had one yet. What they were doing with him before his latest breakdown does not really constitute much of a shot.

 

True, but maybe they have some sort of plan to give him one more shot before cutting him loose.

[Kimmi]

As I said before, my biggest concern with bringing Devers up now is that he may not be ready, and if he gets sent back down we've used up a year of options. Id prefer to have our FO reasonably certain that he can play as soon as he gets called up. I understand that options may or may not be an issue in 2-3 years, but I tend to err on the side of caution when I can.

 

And BTW, I had the same concern with Beni and look how that worked out. I'm not ALWAYS right.. it just seems that way.

 

I had the same concerns about bringing Beni and Moncada up as well. In Beni's case, I was very happy to be wrong.

 

I think we have to trust the judgment of the coaches and FO to know whether Devers is ready or not, and to call him up at the right time.

 

And the point about using up an option year if the player is not ready is a valid one.

[Kimmi]

Is that right? My bad, I thought it was much more than that. Although I doubt Peralta is the answer, at that price he may be able to hold us over for a bit.

 

At the very least, he may be better than what we have now. It's worth the look, IMO.

[Kimmi]

I think the FO knows that he'd be better right now than their current options, but wants him to be fully developed before he gets to the show (i.e. better defense, less reliant on waiting for fastballs, etc.).

 

There is also a maturity level that I think a player needs to have. It's not necessarily related to age.

[S5Dewey]

At the very least, he may be better than what we have now. It's worth the look, IMO.

 

I dunno. How can you trust a player who can't spell his own first name right?

[cp176]

"..there is talk he has issues dealing and adjusting to breaking balls."

 

 

This would be my guess. I also heard he can adjust pretty well though.

 

Emp - i even watched the boys do their little jig in the outfield last night. I wish that we had more guys who approached the game like Sale does. he is the leader we get to see once a week or so. i still don't like the dance. Maybe if they could wear some sort of costume I would appreciate it more.

[oldtimer]

At the very least, he may be better than what we have now. It's worth the look, IMO.

 

I'm a believer in playing the guy who gives this team the best chance for winning on any given night, particularly when this team has a real shot of making the playoffs. The Sox FO must believe that Devers is not as good as Marerro or Lin or any other that the Sox may have waiting in the wings. Otherwise, Devers would be up. That being said, what magic elixer will occur in the next month or two to bring him along so that he is a better player? Will he come up in September and be really good? The Sox FO would have egg on their faces if that turned out to be the case.

 

So, assuming Devers is not as good now as Marerro and Lin, and we know they are pretty weak players, what should the fo do? Let the team play on with a handicap at 3rd? Get a questionable experienced third baseman and trade away good prospects for him? Wait and try to pick up a really solid third baseman and pay through the nose for him after the AS break? The choices do not look that alluring. Others have suggested picking up a SS and moving Bogey over although that is pretty far fetched to me, that remains and alternative, I suppose.

 

I'm from the old school, which means when you have an obvious problem, you make an attempt to solve it. Lets hope the red Sox FO is thinking along those lines.

[moonslav59]

I'm a believer in playing the guy who gives this team the best chance for winning on any given night, particularly when this team has a real shot of making the playoffs. The Sox FO must believe that Devers is not as good as Marerro or Lin or any other that the Sox may have waiting in the wings. Otherwise, Devers would be up. That being said, what magic elixer will occur in the next month or two to bring him along so that he is a better player? Will he come up in September and be really good? The Sox FO would have egg on their faces if that turned out to be the case.

 

So, assuming Devers is not as good now as Marerro and Lin, and we know they are pretty weak players, what should the fo do? Let the team play on with a handicap at 3rd? Get a questionable experienced third baseman and trade away good prospects for him? Wait and try to pick up a really solid third baseman and pay through the nose for him after the AS break? The choices do not look that alluring. Others have suggested picking up a SS and moving Bogey over although that is pretty far fetched to me, that remains and alternative, I suppose.

 

I'm from the old school, which means when you have an obvious problem, you make an attempt to solve it. Lets hope the red Sox FO is thinking along those lines.

 

We could also just trade Ockimey and mid level pitcher for a decent but not big upgrade at 3B. Devers could be called up in September (not losing an option year) and help out at 3B and DH/PH.

[sharris1592]

Hey! I have an extra ticket to Thursday's Game V Twins. Anyone want to go?

[Slasher9]

Hey! I have an extra ticket to Thursday's Game V Twins. Anyone want to go?

 

i would love to but U2 Joshua Tree 30 year reunion tour at the meadowlands....

[moonslav59]

i would love to but U2 Joshua Tree 30 year reunion tour at the meadowlands....

 

Great show. I saw then in Houston a few weeks ago.

[Emp9]

Emp - i even watched the boys do their little jig in the outfield last night. I wish that we had more guys who approached the game like Sale does. he is the leader we get to see once a week or so. i still don't like the dance. Maybe if they could wear some sort of costume I would appreciate it more.[/QUOTE]

 

Perhaps an NFL jersey would be appropriate?

[Slasher9]

Great show. I saw then in Houston a few weeks ago.

 

i'm psyched. saw it 30 years ago in Hartford & NJ. taking my 11 year old this go around....

[moonslav59]

i'm psyched. saw it 30 years ago in Hartford & NJ. taking my 11 year old this go around....

 

I've seen U2 4 times, but I missed the original Joshua Tree tour. It was my wife's first U2 show. We both loved it.

 

There's an amazing super large high definition screen behind the band, but I won't give anything else away.

 

Enjoy!

[oldtimer]

We could also just trade Ockimey and mid level pitcher for a decent but not big upgrade at 3B. Devers could be called up in September (not losing an option year) and help out at 3B and DH/PH.

 

The message on Devers seems to be he is not good enough to be brought up and produce better results than Marerro, Pablo or Lin. What makes you think he is going to make the big improvement needed to be better than Marerro in a little over 2 months? Maybe we just accept Sox management opinions and get a decent replacement and leave Devers in the minors until next year. My personal opinion is that there is little to lose by bringing Devers up now and seeing what he can do. So in my opinion, Sox management is being overly cautious.

[mvp 78]

The message on Devers seems to be he is not good enough to be brought up and produce better results than Marerro, Pablo or Lin. What makes you think he is going to make the big improvement needed to be better than Marerro in a little over 2 months? Maybe we just accept Sox management opinions and get a decent replacement and leave Devers in the minors until next year. My personal opinion is that there is little to lose by bringing Devers up now and seeing what he can do. So in my opinion, Sox management is being overly cautious.

 

That's not the message at all. The message is that they value Devers' growth more than Marerro or Lin. That they feel they want to hold onto Devers until he is completely ready. For Marerro and Lin, they are just seen as fungible assets that you can throw where ever and use up until they are done.

[Dojji]

They're being just the right amount of cautious. In the worst case scenario throwing away this season is probably worth it if the outcome is Devers is healthy and playing at a middle of the order level when he does come up. If he meets his potential Devers is the kind of player you build franchises around.

 

When prepping a player for the big leagues nothing below AA ball really counts. Devers have had 250 developmental at bats that matter. These things take time and needing Devers now doesn't magically make him ready. Let the scouts and development people do their jobs. Finding a way to bridge to Devers is DD's part of the job.

[cp176]

Emp - i even watched the boys do their little jig in the outfield last night. I wish that we had more guys who approached the game like Sale does. he is the leader we get to see once a week or so. i still don't like the dance. Maybe if they could wear some sort of costume I would appreciate it more.[/QUOTE]

 

Perhaps an NFL jersey would be appropriate?

 

You wouldn't need more than one - that would save some of John Henry's $. All 3 of our guys could fit in an average sized NFL player's jersey! lol

[Emp9]

 

You wouldn't need more than one - that would save some of John Henry's $. All 3 of our guys could fit in an average sized NFL player's jersey! lol

 

Yup, MLB's steroid policy actually works... compared to some leagues that is.

[illinoisredsox]

They're being just the right amount of cautious. In the worst case scenario throwing away this season is probably worth it if the outcome is Devers is healthy and playing at a middle of the order level when he does come up. If he meets his potential Devers is the kind of player you build franchises around.

 

When prepping a player for the big leagues nothing below AA ball really counts. Devers have had 250 developmental at bats that matter. These things take time and needing Devers now doesn't magically make him ready. Let the scouts and development people do their jobs. Finding a way to bridge to Devers is DD's part of the job.

 

Exactly. The guys whose job it is to know such things see some thing(s) he needs to work on. There have been references on these boards about some issues with breaking balls. I have no idea if that's what it is or not, but let's suppose it is. If he's having some trouble with them against AA pitchers, major league pitchers are going to eat him alive with them. While Devers may be destroying fastballs, we have to remember that AA pitchers are every bit in the same development mode that Devers is, so their organizations may be having them work on commanding fastballs rather than tossing breaking pitch after breaking pitch just to get a certain hitter out. Big league pitchers are not going to be under any such requirements.

 

As you point out, he's had 250 or so ABs above A ball. Benintendi at that same age was still in high A ball. So was Betts. JBJ was still in college. Xander got to Boston, but his first full season (2014 when he was 21) was a struggle.

[mvp 78]

Exactly. The guys whose job it is to know such things see some thing(s) he needs to work on. There have been references on these boards about some issues with breaking balls. I have no idea if that's what it is or not, but let's suppose it is. If he's having some trouble with them against AA pitchers, major league pitchers are going to eat him alive with them. While Devers may be destroying fastballs, we have to remember that AA pitchers are every bit in the same development mode that Devers is, so their organizations may be having them work on commanding fastballs rather than tossing breaking pitch after breaking pitch just to get a certain hitter out. Big league pitchers are not going to be under any such requirements.

 

As you point out, he's had 250 or so ABs above A ball. Benintendi at that same age was still in high A ball. So was Betts. JBJ was still in college. Xander got to Boston, but his first full season (2014 when he was 21) was a struggle.

 

What I've read isn't that he's struggling with offspeed stuff, just that he's waiting on fastballs. Again, this is all hearsay and may not be reflective of the reasons the Sox are holding him back. He's only 20 and in AA, it's not unheard of that the guy would stay in the minors a little longer just because.

[Dojji]

All we really need is a Maicer Izturis. A glorified utlilty guy who can stand in as a starter. We had one until Brock Holt got a concussion.

[Behindenemylines]

Right now the Sox are getting zero production at 3B. It is almost like having the pitcher come up to bat!

[mvp 78]

All we really need is a Maicer Izturis. A glorified utlilty guy who can stand in as a starter. We had one until Brock Holt got a concussion.

 

I think that's why they have thrown so many different utility guys into the mix. Just need to find one that can stick for a while. Marrero just doesn't have the hit tool to stick around. Maybe Lin can? Who knows?

[oldtimer]

What I've read isn't that he's struggling with offspeed stuff, just that he's waiting on fastballs. Again, this is all hearsay and may not be reflective of the reasons the Sox are holding him back. He's only 20 and in AA, it's not unheard of that the guy would stay in the minors a little longer just because.

 

Doesn't look there is much at 3rd from Pawtucket but Portland has 2 good 3rd basemen in Devers and Chavis. Chavis is hitting a little better there but is reportedly not as good a fielder. Maybe one or both of those guys should move up to Pawtucket and get exposed to better pitching. Lets see if they can handle it.

[Dojji]

They'll do that when one of them shows a proper mastery of the game at the AA level.

 

What they absolutely can not and must not do is promote guys based on the needs of the big league roster. "ready or not, here you come" ruins careers. Not all careers, but it's certainly a destructive policy on average.

[moonslav59]

The message on Devers seems to be he is not good enough to be brought up and produce better results than Marerro, Pablo or Lin. What makes you think he is going to make the big improvement needed to be better than Marerro in a little over 2 months? Maybe we just accept Sox management opinions and get a decent replacement and leave Devers in the minors until next year. My personal opinion is that there is little to lose by bringing Devers up now and seeing what he can do. So in my opinion, Sox management is being overly cautious.

 

I've said all along I trust Sox management to know when is when.