3rd Third III

[Kimmi]

 

Thanks for posting that Harmony. I guess it does happen, which is how the Sox are getting away with it.

[Kimmi]

This was my reaction too. It doesn't happen very often. Perhaps the Red Sox are trying to buy more time here and want to see Sandoval hit in AAA (rehab assignment) before promoting him again. If Sandoval can't hit in AAA, he isn't going to hit in the majors either, and so perhaps this will play out in AAA when he begins his rehab assignment.

 

The division might come down to 1 or 2 games. In that scenario, the Red Sox could lose or win the division based on how many at-bats they give to fringy J.Rutledge. I think Dombrowski needs to make a trade, call the A's for Lowrie or the Giants for Nunez, and get some infield help. They can't keep giving valuable at-bats to Rutledge.

 

We really needed Marco Hernandez to stay healthy this year.....

 

I'm guessing that we've seen the last of Pablo on the big league club. Having a healthy Marco and Holt would have helped. It sounds like Holt may be getting close to a return.

 

I'm not fed up with Pablo, but I'm fed up with the way the team has been handling the 3B situation, and I'm fed up with the roster issues created by having Pablo on the bench and not starting him. I really wish that Farrell would have played Pablo regularly to see if he could turn it around even the least little bit. Playing part of one game every 3-4 days did not allow for any consistency.

 

Anyway, it's clear that the team does not trust him and that they prefer Rutledge/Marerro. That being the case, it's time for Pablo to go.

[Kimmi]

yup. seems like DD has started the process of permanently removing Panda from the team. trade or Rafi? that is the question.

 

Farrell reiterated last night that Devers was not going to be rushed up. He also stated that the next stop for Devers would be AAA. If the team is being true to their word, then it sounds like a trade will be coming.

[mvp 78]

Farrell reiterated last night that Devers was not going to be rushed up. He also stated that the next stop for Devers would be AAA. If the team is being true to their word, then it sounds like a trade will be coming.

 

I don't understand why Beni and Moncada skipped AAA last year, but Devers can't this year. Devers is a more complete player than Moncada is. There are no issues with defense or excessive k's.

[mvp 78]

His OPS in AA is better than what Cody Bellinger's was last year. Bring him up!

[a700hitter]

His OPS in AA is better than what Cody Bellinger's was last year. Bring him up!

They need to give him an audition soon to determine whether they need to acquire someone before the trading deadline. I don't understand the kid gloves treatment. He is not made of porcelain glass.

[moonslav59]

I don't understand why Beni and Moncada skipped AAA last year, but Devers can't this year. Devers is a more complete player than Moncada is. There are no issues with defense or excessive k's.

 

It seems to me that Devers looks ready, but I trust Sox management to know when he's ready.

 

Moncada was 21 when he was called up. He was called up in an emergency situation later in the season than now. We may see Devers in September,

like we did Moncada, so this comp may be moot.

 

Beni had played in college. He entered A ball at age 20 and was in AA and MLB by the next season. He was 22 when he was called up. He played his first game on August 2nd at age 22.

 

Devers is just 20. He played rookie ball at age 17 and entered A ball at 18.

Being in AA at age 20 is pretty fast-tracked, and he's actually at a higher or equal level at his age than Moncada and Beni were.

 

Even if Devers is not called up by August 2nd or September, he's still younger than either Moncada or Beni were at their times of promotion to the bigs.

[a700hitter]

As things stand, says Britton, Sandoval has posted the worst performance (by measure of WAR) of any player to sign a deal in excess of $90MM.

Pablo must go... and soon.

[mvp 78]

It seems to me that Devers looks ready, but I trust Sox management to know when he's ready.

 

Moncada was 21 when he was called up. He was called up in an emergency situation later in the season than now. We may see Devers in September,

like we did Moncada, so this comp may be moot.

 

Beni had played in college. He entered A ball at age 20 and was in AA and MLB by the next season. He was 22 when he was called up. He played his first game on August 2nd at age 22.

 

Devers is just 20. He played rookie ball at age 17 and entered A ball at 18.

Being in AA at age 20 is pretty fast-tracked, and he's actually at a higher or equal level at his age than Moncada and Beni were.

 

Even if Devers is not called up by August 2nd or September, he's still younger than either Moncada or Beni were at their times of promotion to the bigs.

 

Age ain't nothing but a number.

[Jack Flap]

Not sure why we can't take a flyer on someone like Peralta or Plouffe who probably sucks but just might get hot at the right time and be better than Rutledge/Marrero -- particularly now that it's pretty clear that Pablo has lost the team's trust and isn't getting his job back. I'd prefer to see Devers perform in Triple-A for a little while before being called to Boston, but I think that's going to require some kind of move to buy some time.

[Jack Flap]

This one's for you, MVP:

 

Chris Hatfield‏ @SPChrisHatfield

So day games like today's are spots where Sox will rest guys, but that said... Rafael Devers not in Portland lineup today. #promotionwatch

 

 

 

EDIT:

Chris Hatfield‏ @SPChrisHatfield

Awwwww, @seadogsradio says Devers has the day off on the broadcast. Nothing to see here.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Jack Flap

[mvp 78]

Damn...

[Emp9]

While Frazier's BA is low, he's walking more. His OBP has been between .303 and .309 for the last 3 years.

 

.309 is nothing to be happy about, but it's considerably better than the .255 OBP we have had at 3B season.

 

We've talked about Pablo's steady decline while at SF, well, Frazier's SLG has declined recently:

 

.498 in 2015 at age 29

 

.464 in 2016 at age 30

 

.411 in 2017 at age 31

 

The other scary thing about Frazier is that he has been a first half hitter most of his career, and he's way behind his normal numbers at this point of the year.

 

Career:

 

1st half .819

 

2nd half: .721

 

If we take the .721 number and add the regression factor, his 2nd half of 2017 offensive projection would not look too promising.

 

 

 

yeah, I don't love it but we should do something come deadline if Devers really isn't an option.

 

Someone mentioned Josh Harrison, who I personally think would be a great fit (Career UZR:3B 7.8 ,2B 2.3; I wouldn't expect much in the HR dept., however career .285/.322/.415/.737 and decent SB threat). Signed thru 2018, 4 yrs/$27.3M (15-18) & 19-20 team option, '17: $7,750,000, '18: $10,250,000, '19: $10.5M Team Option, '19: $1M Buyout, '20: $11.5M Team Option, '20 $500k Buyout. The Pirates would have to be in Sell-Mode, of course. His OF defense is horrendous, but sticking him in LF for starter rest days next season or beyond wouldn't be too bad as long as it's nothing long term (Young is a FA end of season). He can play 2B if Pedey is hurt and we could call up Devers for 3B when applicable. These are all future scenarios due to his versatility, mind you. He'd be nice to have this season at 3B, but I know it's a long shot/pipe dream and that's even before we get to what we'd have to give up in a trade for him.

[oldtimer]

Damn...

 

I doon't buy the too young argument. There may be other viable arguments that management knows, but age should not be one of them. Just for interest, I looked up the youngest players to hit both leagues for the last 10 years.

 

Francis Martes (HOU) 21

2016 (NL AL) Julio Urias (LAD) 19 Raul Mondesi (KCR) 20

2015 (NL AL) Miguel Castro (COL) 20 Roberto Osuna (TOR) 20

2014 (NL AL) Dilson Herrera (NYM) 20 Rougned Odor (TEX) 20

2013 (NL AL) Bryce Harper (WSN) 20 Jurickson Profar (TEX) 20

2012 (NL AL) Bryce Harper (WSN) 19 Jurickson Profar (TEX) 19

2011 (NL AL) Julio Teheran (ATL) 20 Mike Trout (LAA) 19

2010 (NL AL) Starlin Castro (CHC) 20 Chris Sale (CHW) 21

2009 (NL AL) Madison Bumgarner (SFG) 19 Rick Porcello (DET) 20

2008 (NL AL) Clayton Kershaw (LAD) 20 Travis Snider (TOR) 20

 

A lot of these kids have turned out to be extremely valuable. Talent, not age should be the determining factor.

[mvp 78]

This one's for you, MVP:

 

Chris Hatfield‏ @SPChrisHatfield

So day games like today's are spots where Sox will rest guys, but that said... Rafael Devers not in Portland lineup today. #promotionwatch

 

 

 

EDIT:

Chris Hatfield‏ @SPChrisHatfield

Awwwww, @seadogsradio says Devers has the day off on the broadcast. Nothing to see here.

 

He's already in the game today after pinch running.

[moonslav59]

I doon't buy the too young argument. There may be other viable arguments that management knows, but age should not be one of them. Just for interest, I looked up the youngest players to hit both leagues for the last 10 years.

 

Francis Martes (HOU) 21

2016 (NL AL) Julio Urias (LAD) 19 Raul Mondesi (KCR) 20

2015 (NL AL) Miguel Castro (COL) 20 Roberto Osuna (TOR) 20

2014 (NL AL) Dilson Herrera (NYM) 20 Rougned Odor (TEX) 20

2013 (NL AL) Bryce Harper (WSN) 20 Jurickson Profar (TEX) 20

2012 (NL AL) Bryce Harper (WSN) 19 Jurickson Profar (TEX) 19

2011 (NL AL) Julio Teheran (ATL) 20 Mike Trout (LAA) 19

2010 (NL AL) Starlin Castro (CHC) 20 Chris Sale (CHW) 21

2009 (NL AL) Madison Bumgarner (SFG) 19 Rick Porcello (DET) 20

2008 (NL AL) Clayton Kershaw (LAD) 20 Travis Snider (TOR) 20

 

A lot of these kids have turned out to be extremely valuable. Talent, not age should be the determining factor.

 

Talent and readiness. The readiness factor is hard to determine.

 

Ability to make adjustments, ability to handle a wide variety of pitches that MLB throw, and other mental and emotional factors that not many of us know about.

 

Here's something from soxprospects.com 6/19/17:

 

With Red Sox third basemen still struggling, the calls for Rafael Devers to come up to the big leagues will only continue to grow. After seeing Devers for three games recently, however, it is clear he still could use seasoning in the minor leagues. Devers can get pull-happy and overly aggressive hunting fastballs. As a result, he can be susceptible to off-speed pitches and extend his zone, chasing them. Even when he briefly falls into such streaks, Devers has the mentality and ability to turn things around quickly. He has shown this ability recently—after an 8-for-48 stretch over his final 12 games of May (.167/.226/.292, 1 HR), he is hitting .364/.397/.764 with 5 home runs.

[moonslav59]

I'd love to see Devers in the line-up tomorrow night, but again, I trust Sox management to know when the time is right.

[Kimmi]

I don't understand why Beni and Moncada skipped AAA last year, but Devers can't this year. Devers is a more complete player than Moncada is. There are no issues with defense or excessive k's.

 

If I'm not mistaken, Farrell said it had to do with his age.

 

I would rather call him up than to overpay in a trade for a moderate upgrade.

[Kimmi]

I'd love to see Devers in the line-up tomorrow night, but again, I trust Sox management to know when the time is right.

 

Sox management has shown with Beni and Moncada that they are not afraid to promote someone that they feel is ready. If they are not willing to call Devers up when we could really use an upgrade at 3B, then they must not feel he is ready. Maybe it's his defense. Maybe it's just his maturity level.

[moonslav59]

I've never subscribed to the theory that calling up someone "before their time" risks harming their emotional or mental character irreparably.

 

I do think age and maturity are aspects that must be considered in the decision.

 

There's nothing on this administrations history that hints at them not "getting it right" in these types of initial call-up decisions.

 

Maybe my trust is misplaced, but I'm respectful of their choice to not call him up so far.

 

I realize emergency situations arise that force the issue at times, like Bogey being rushed to play 3B after just 10 games there on the farm. I think we rushed Moncada a little last year in the midst of a championship run. Some felt Beni was rushed, but I thought Sox management did the right thing in all of these cases, except I feel they should have prepared these players for the position they would most likely be playing once called up a bit earlier than 10 games ahead of time.

 

I'm not sure we can call this an emergency, but 3B is pretty bad off. I wouldn't argue with anyone saying the emergency is already in effect, so I'd be fine with Devers being called up tonight, but I wouldn't want him called up, if management felt he was not ready right now. There must be some sort of risk/reward equation when a player is close to the call-up readiness point that is weighed vs the level of big club needs.

[S5Dewey]

I've never subscribed to the theory that calling up someone "before their time" risks harming their emotional or mental character irreparably.

 

I do think age and maturity are aspects that must be considered in the decision.

 

There's nothing on this administrations history that hints at them not "getting it right" in these types of initial call-up decisions.

 

Maybe my trust is misplaced, but I'm respectful of their choice to not call him up so far.

 

I realize emergency situations arise that force the issue at times, like Bogey being rushed to play 3B after just 10 games there on the farm. I think we rushed Moncada a little last year in the midst of a championship run. Some felt Beni was rushed, but I thought Sox management did the right thing in all of these cases, except I feel they should have prepared these players for the position they would most likely be playing once called up a bit earlier than 10 games ahead of time.

 

I'm not sure we can call this an emergency, but 3B is pretty bad off. I wouldn't argue with anyone saying the emergency is already in effect, so I'd be fine with Devers being called up tonight, but I wouldn't want him called up, if management felt he was not ready right now. There must be some sort of risk/reward equation when a player is close to the call-up readiness point that is weighed vs the level of big club needs.

 

All very rational, but how do you reconcile this post with what you posted above in post 586 of this thread?

 

My concern about calling Devers up now is the possibility that he's not ready and gets send back and forth. I can see a scenario where we get caught up in a numbers crunch in a couple of years when we may want to send him back down for more work but he's out of options because we rushed him to the bigs.

[moonslav59]

All very rational, but how do you reconcile this post with what you posted above in post 586 of this thread?

 

I don't see any contradiction. I trust Sox management to make this tough decision. There are many factors involved, including high team need. When they weigh the risk reward and the balance tips to a call-up, then I trust they know when this point arrives.

 

Of course, we'd all love to never have to "rush" a player before his time, and "his time" is somewhat arbitrary. I'm sure there are disagreements within an organization on the timing of the attainment of the "ML readiness" label.

 

My concern about calling Devers up now is the possibility that he's not ready and gets send back and forth. I can see a scenario where we get caught up in a numbers crunch in a couple of years when we may want to send him back down for more work but he's out of options because we rushed him to the bigs.

 

That is certainly a factor involved in the decision. It's part of the risk/reward decision.

 

Knowing what I know, it looks like Devers is ready, but again, I'm fine with waiting, if that's what Sox management thinks is right- for whatever reason they think tips the balance to keeping him on the farm longer.

 

It could be to extend team control and lessen option issues as you pointed out that tips the balance.

 

It could be they just feel he is not ready- due to maturity, issues with making adjustments or anything else.

 

It could be they don't project an immediate positive impact and don't want to have to wait it out with him, if he struggles.

 

It could be they like Rutledge and Marrero more than we do.

 

It could be he already has some deals in the works that he feels projects better production than Devers with minimal return needed to obtain such player.

 

[Station 13]

how is Pandora doing? does he needs homemade chicken soup?

[Fan_since_Boggs]

How hard is it to trade for a guy like J.Lowrie or E.Nunez? If I have to watch another J.Rutledge at-bat, I think I'll puke. Does J.Rutledge have pics of David Dombrowski doing something he shouldn't be doing?

[a700hitter]

How hard is it to trade for a guy like J.Lowrie or E.Nunez? If I have to watch another J.Rutledge at-bat, I think I'll puke. Does J.Rutledge have pics of David Dombrowski doing something he shouldn't be doing?

Howie Kendrick should be very cheap and he is an excellent professional hitter.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Howie Kendrick should be very cheap and he is an excellent professional hitter.

 

Can Kendrick play 3b? If he can, I would definitely pursue him in a trade as well. If he can't play 3b, I don't want him--Pedroia is not expected to be out long term.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Can Kendrick play 3b? If he can, I would definitely pursue him in a trade as well. If he can't play 3b, I don't want him--Pedroia is not expected to be out long term.

 

Just looked it up. According to ESPN, Kendrick has played a total of 18 games at 3b in his career. That isn't much. 17 of those games occurred in 2016 with the Dodgers. The fact that he has played so little at 3b suggests that he doesn't profile at 3b very well. He might not have the arm for it, for example.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Rotoworld's most recent update on B.Holt.

 

Brock Holt (concussion, vertigo) is hoping "it won’t be too long before I get back in there."

Holt has suffered two concussions in the last year and is still battling vertigo-like symptoms. He was pulled off his minor league rehab assignment last month, prompting him to visit Dr. Michael Collins, a leading concussion specialist based in Pittsburgh. Holt has been taking batting practice and fielding ground balls but he won't be ready for game action until his eyes stabilize. "I’m just letting this play out," he said. "I feel more positive than I’ve felt in a long time, but I’m trying to hold back thinking about when I’ll take that final step to say, ‘Ok, I’m ready to do this.’ ’’ His presence has been sorely missed at third base, where the Red Sox are currently starting Josh Rutledge. Jun 17 - 9:18 PM

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/mlb/7246/brock-holt

 

Maybe Dombrowski isn't making a trade because he is counting on B.Holt? If that is true, I'm not a big fan of that strategy. I would rather find a starting 3b elsewhere and return Holt to that super-utility role. They have the roster room. For example, J.Lowrie/Nunez would replace Rutledge and Holt would replace Marrero.

[mvp 78]

Holt may never play again. Waiting on him is foolish.

[Spudboy]

Holt may never play again. Waiting on him is foolish.

 

I tend to agree.

 

The guy has damaged his brain. Maybe it repairs itself, maybe it won't.