3rd Third III

[S5Dewey]

Great post. I'd add Beni was considered "rushed" by some and seems to be doing fine at a much needed, super low budget cost.

 

 

As I said before, my biggest concern with bringing Devers up now is that he may not be ready, and if he gets sent back down we've used up a year of options. Id prefer to have our FO reasonably certain that he can play as soon as he gets called up. I understand that options may or may not be an issue in 2-3 years, but I tend to err on the side of caution when I can.

 

And BTW, I had the same concern with Beni and look how that worked out. I'm not ALWAYS right.. it just seems that way.

[mvp 78]

As I said before, my biggest concern with bringing Devers up now is that he may not be ready, and if he gets sent back down we've used up a year of options. Id prefer to have our FO reasonably certain that he can play as soon as he gets called up. I understand that options may or may not be an issue in 2-3 years, but I tend to err on the side of caution when I can.

 

And BTW, I had the same concern with Beni and look how that worked out. I'm not ALWAYS right.. it just seems that way.

 

But you want to move Xander to 3rd?

Edited June 26, 2017 by mvp 78

[Dojji]

As opposed to 2d sidescrolling?

[moonslav59]

As I said before, my biggest concern with bringing Devers up now is that he may not be ready, and if he gets sent back down we've used up a year of options. Id prefer to have our FO reasonably certain that he can play as soon as he gets called up. I understand that options may or may not be an issue in 2-3 years, but I tend to err on the side of caution when I can.

 

And BTW, I had the same concern with Beni and look how that worked out. I'm not ALWAYS right.. it just seems that way.

 

I think we could call Devers up before September and not lose a year of control in his prime. I'm not sue how many days he can be on the ML club before we lose the year.

Anyone know?

[mvp 78]

I think we could call Devers up before September and not lose a year of control in his prime. I'm not sue how many days he can be on the ML club before we lose the year.

Anyone know?

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/principles/contract-details/service-time-super-two/

[Slasher9]

That's an expensive look considering where our budget is at. I'd rather callup Devers and wait and see on whether Peralta is anything close to his former self in the minors. Money-wise this would make way more sense.

we are only on the hook for league minimum.

[a700hitter]

I think we could call Devers up before September and not lose a year of control in his prime. I'm not sue how many days he can be on the ML club before we lose the year.

Anyone know?

This is the Red Sox. Playing that game should not be a concern. If he is ready, he should be called up to play and help the team win the Division. Imo, he should be called up ASAP so we know if he can handle the bigs in advance of the trading deadline.

[illinoisredsox]

we are only on the hook for league minimum.

 

And the prorated portion at that. So roughly $275K (around half the MLB minimum of $535K and going down every day).

[moonslav59]

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/principles/contract-details/service-time-super-two/

 

Thanks, so Devers has already passed the super two date for this year and would not lose a year, if he is called up now.

 

Perhaps the Sox are looking to call him up after 60 days of the 2018 season.

[moonslav59]

And the prorated portion at that. So roughly $275K (around half the MLB minimum of $535K and going down every day).

 

The same pro-rated min salary Devers would be making if he was called up.

[mvp 78]

Thanks, so Devers has already passed the super two date for this year and would not lose a year, if he is called up now.

 

Perhaps the Sox are looking to call him up after 60 days of the 2018 season.

 

Don't give them any ideas pleez.

[illinoisredsox]

The same pro-rated min salary Devers would be making if he was called up.

 

Very true. But like you, I will trust the professionals in the Sox organization to judge when Devers is ready. Accountants, engineers, doctors and lawyers on a Red Sox forum looking only at minor league offensive numbers do not qualify, despite how much they think they are experts.

[moonslav59]

Very true. But like you, I will trust the professionals in the Sox organization to judge when Devers is ready. Accountants, engineers, doctors and lawyers on a Red Sox forum looking only at minor league offensive numbers do not qualify, despite how much they think they are experts.

 

Yes, and I seriously doubt the Sox top brass thinks Devers is ML ready but are holding him back to gain a year of service. Too much is riding on the success of this year's team. The window is short- perhaps 2-3 more years after this one. If Devers was ready, he'd be here now, IMO.

[mvp 78]

Very true. But like you, I will trust the professionals in the Sox organization to judge when Devers is ready. Accountants, engineers, doctors and lawyers on a Red Sox forum looking only at minor league offensive numbers do not qualify, despite how much they think they are experts.

 

Now this is a strawman argument.

 

No one on here believes they know more about a player than the Sox FO.

[Emp9]

And the prorated portion at that. So roughly $275K (around half the MLB minimum of $535K and going down every day).

 

Is that right? My bad, I thought it was much more than that. Although I doubt Peralta is the answer, at that price he may be able to hold us over for a bit.

[moonslav59]

Now this is a strawman argument.

 

No one on here believes they know more about a player than the Sox FO.

 

True, but isn't saying we should call Devers up now or should have already done so saying you think the Sox FO is wrong on this one decision?

[moonslav59]

Is that right? My bad, I thought it was much more than that. Although I doubt Peralta is the answer, at that price he may be able to hold us over for a bit.

 

I think we're grasping at straws with Peralta, but I guess the more straws- the better chance you have at finding someone at least at replacement player level.

[Slasher9]

True, but isn't saying we should call Devers up now or should have already done so saying you think the Sox FO is wrong on this one decision?

 

yes. if someone is stating that Devers should already be up they are saying they know more than the FO.

[mvp 78]

True, but isn't saying we should call Devers up now or should have already done so saying you think the Sox FO is wrong on this one decision?

 

No, I'm just stating my opinion that that's what I'd do.

[oldtimer]

Yes, and I seriously doubt the Sox top brass thinks Devers is ML ready but are holding him back to gain a year of service. Too much is riding on the success of this year's team. The window is short- perhaps 2-3 more years after this one. If Devers was ready, he'd be here now, IMO.

 

The idea of someone being ready for the ML means what exactly? I think the question is whether he would provide more than Marerro or Lin. I've given up on Pablo.

[mvp 78]

The idea of someone being ready for the ML means what exactly? I think the question is whether he would provide more than Marerro or Lin. I've given up on Pablo.

 

I think the FO knows that he'd be better right now than their current options, but wants him to be fully developed before he gets to the show (i.e. better defense, less reliant on waiting for fastballs, etc.).

[Jack Flap]

"Providing more than Marrero" is a really low bar to clear...there are still a few things we can try before turning to Devers, IMO (Peralta being one of them).

 

I trust the team to call Devers up when they believe he's ready and not before. All recent comments from Dombrowski and Farrell seem to indicate he'll see some time in Pawtucket before coming to Boston, which is perfectly reasonable.

[Slasher9]

how's panda's swimmers ear?

does he get another shot?

[Maxbialystock]

I think the FO knows that he'd be better right now than their current options, but wants him to be fully developed before he gets to the show (i.e. better defense, less reliant on waiting for fastballs, etc.).

 

Agree. Devers would be an improvement at 3B, but would this be good for his long-term development? He's 20 and at Portland, not Pawtucket.

 

When Pedroia came up for good at 2B, he had a terrible April and I think maybe May, but management stuck with him because they knew he was the goods. Ditto Betts. Ditto Bogaerts. Ditto Lester. Funny thing, but JBJ had played at Pawtucket, and there is no question he was ready defensively. So when the Yankees (foolishly) outbid the Sox for Ellsbury, JBJ got the CF job in 2014 and bombed out at the plate. Back to Pawtucket. Then in 2015 it was like he was on a shuttle between Pawtucket and Boston. Finally, o/a August 1, the Sox made a trade or something, which gave JBJ one more opening at Boston, and he took off like a rocket. Up and down since then, but overall a pretty good OPS.

 

With Travis lined up for 1B, it makes sense to commit to Devers at 3B, but he does need to be able to field the position.

[moonslav59]

The idea of someone being ready for the ML means what exactly? I think the question is whether he would provide more than Marerro or Lin. I've given up on Pablo.

 

Maybe there's more to it than think Devers MIGHT provide more than Lin/Marrero at this point.

 

They might be thinking Pablo will get one more shot after his DL stint, so why call up Devers now?

 

They may think Devers is not ready to face ML pitching, or he needs to work on one major issue before being "ready".

 

They may be factoring in his years of service and trying to maximize control of his prime years by age.

 

It may be a combination of several factors that is keeping him from being thought of as "ML ready" by Sox management. There's even a small chance they think he is ML ready, but want to wait a while longer anyways.

[moonslav59]

Agree. Devers would be an improvement at 3B, but would this be good for his long-term development? He's 20 and at Portland, not Pawtucket.

 

When Pedroia came up for good at 2B, he had a terrible April and I think maybe May, but management stuck with him because they knew he was the goods. Ditto Betts. Ditto Bogaerts. Ditto Lester. Funny thing, but JBJ had played at Pawtucket, and there is no question he was ready defensively. So when the Yankees (foolishly) outbid the Sox for Ellsbury, JBJ got the CF job in 2014 and bombed out at the plate. Back to Pawtucket. Then in 2015 it was like he was on a shuttle between Pawtucket and Boston. Finally, o/a August 1, the Sox made a trade or something, which gave JBJ one more opening at Boston, and he took off like a rocket. Up and down since then, but overall a pretty good OPS.

 

With Travis lined up for 1B, it makes sense to commit to Devers at 3B, but he does need to be able to field the position.

 

I don't think Rafael's defense is what is keeping him from being "ML ready" or called up even if he is ML ready by Sox management standards. While the offensive stats of Devers have looked great, there is talk he has issues dealing and adjusting to breaking balls. Maybe they think he needs more time.

[mvp 78]

And Lin is starting at 3B tonight.

 

Organization sees him as a super sub with plus defense at most positions (2, 3B, SS, OF).

[oldtimer]

I don't think Rafael's defense is what is keeping him from being "ML ready" or called up even if he is ML ready by Sox management standards. While the offensive stats of Devers have looked great, there is talk he has issues dealing and adjusting to breaking balls. Maybe they think he needs more time.

 

And Marerro hits breaking balls well? Isn't it a question of is Devers a better option? Lots of players are brought up without a lot of development time because they are good. Trout was brought up at age 19. Woulld the Sox management argued to keep him in the minors to let mim develop more fully?

[cp176]

And Lin is starting at 3B tonight.

 

Organization sees him as a super sub with plus defense at most positions (2, 3B, SS, OF).

 

They continue to try to turn their lightweight middle infielders into third basemen. They are redefining the concept of stopgap measure.

[cp176]

Maybe there's more to it than think Devers MIGHT provide more than Lin/Marrero at this point.

 

They might be thinking Pablo will get one more shot after his DL stint, so why call up Devers now?

 

They may think Devers is not ready to face ML pitching, or he needs to work on one major issue before being "ready".

 

They may be factoring in his years of service and trying to maximize control of his prime years by age.

 

It may be a combination of several factors that is keeping him from being thought of as "ML ready" by Sox management. There's even a small chance they think he is ML ready, but want to wait a while longer anyways.

 

I would be very surprised if Pablo gets another real shot. I'm not sure he has even had one yet. What they were doing with him before his latest breakdown does not really constitute much of a shot.