3rd Third III

[mvp 78]

The Red Sox signed Peralta to a minor league deal last week and he played in his first game with the PawSox Wednesday night. Dombrowski detailed the plan for him, which seems t be let him play for a few weeks and then see if he's capable of helping the major league team.

"Basically, what we felt in his case was it’s worth a chance to see if he still can play," he said. "I don’t think he can play shortstop at this point — he could play a game there if he needed to. The ability to play third base, first base and move around a little bit. The key is, can he still hit? Our thought process with that is we put him down in Triple-A, he does not think he is a Triple-A player. He agreed to go down there. His representative, who we know very well, made the arrangement with us that he will go down to Triple-A. 'He’s going to show you that he belongs in the big leagues and we think he can help you right away.' We said fine, we hope that that happens.

 

"We’ll continue to look at him. He will get at-bats on a daily basis and then at that point whenever we get there — and I would say it is probably two to three weeks. If it doesn’t look like we are going to bring him up to the big leagues, our arrangement is we will just let them know that and then we will grant him his release. We don’t have a specific date.”

[mvp 78]

The 2-3 weeks timetable coincides with the AA AS Game and Devers' promotion to AAA.

[Spudboy]

Peralta will be with us in no time.

 

So will Pablow.

[Jack Flap]

Super small sample size, but Marrero is 7 for his last 15. His batting average is almost up to .200!

 

If he can hit even a little bit, his glove and versatility would make him a real asset...same with Lin.

[moonslav59]

Super small sample size, but Marrero is 7 for his last 15. His batting average is almost up to .200!

 

If he can hit even a little bit, his glove and versatility would make him a real asset...same with Lin.

 

He can't hit and never will.

 

The 15 PA sample size is a fluke.

[Bellhorn04]

He can't hit and never will.

 

The 15 PA sample size is a fluke.

 

Jeez, what a spoilsport.

[Kimmi]

On a bright note, Pablo and Peralta both homered last night!

[Jack Flap]

He can't hit and never will.

 

The 15 PA sample size is a fluke.

 

Almost certainly, but my expectations are pretty low at this point and I'll take whatever I can get.

[a700hitter]

And Pablo can't field, so we clearly need a 3B.

[moonslav59]

Jeez, what a spoilsport.

 

Marrero has done well lately, but he's not a plus 3Bman. He's not even replacement level.

 

The best way to improve our chances at winning is probably to turn a negative position into an average one or better.

 

3B is a huge problem despite the fact that Marrero has addressed the defensive issue at 3B and has seemingly convinced some here that he will hit well enough going forward that we can continue winning despite his weak bat.

[moonslav59]

Almost certainly, but my expectations are pretty low at this point and I'll take whatever I can get.

 

I'll take what he has given, but I'm not going to be fooled into believing he will continue giving us plus offense.

[Jasonbay44]

The thing with Marrero and the reason why people want him to be the 3B is he provides something. Rutledge and Pablo are bad hitters and fielders. Marrero is a horrible hitter but he provides defense, and actually seems like a decent base runner. Marrero isn't the answer but of all the s*** we have, he's the one who stinks the least.

[moonslav59]

The thing with Marrero and the reason why people want him to be the 3B is he provides something. Rutledge and Pablo are bad hitters and fielders. Marrero is a horrible hitter but he provides defense, and actually seems like a decent base runner. Marrero isn't the answer but of all the s*** we have, he's the one who stinks the least.

 

Agreed. Marrero and Lin seem to be better options than Pablo-Rutledge, but the fact is we are still an overall negative at 3B. Can we still win with a negative at a position? Yes, we have already shown we can, but all contending teams are looking to improve as they head towards the playoffs. If we are unwilling to give Devers a chance this year, and I have no issues with Sox management's decisions on Devers, I feel the easiest way to improve our playoff chances is to turn a weakness into an average position.

 

We should not stand pat, but I'm not for trading a top prospect for a rental either. We should be able to get someone better than Aaron Hill without significantly affecting our future.

[Jasonbay44]

Agreed. Marrero and Lin seem to be better options than Pablo-Rutledge, but the fact is we are still an overall negative at 3B. Can we still win with a negative at a position? Yes, we have already shown we can, but all contending teams are looking to improve as they head towards the playoffs. If we are unwilling to give Devers a chance this year, and I have no issues with Sox management's decisions on Devers, I feel the easiest way to improve our playoff chances is to turn a weakness into an average position.

 

We should not stand pat, but I'm not for trading a top prospect for a rental either. We should be able to get someone better than Aaron Hill without significantly affecting our future.

 

I completely agree. I don't think we can just stand pat with guys producing some of the worst production of any position in the MLB. I am completely against gutting the farm system anymore though for a guy like Moustakas. We just need a league average guy and its an upgrade and we only need him for at most 1/2 the season. Devers will definitely be ready by next season.

[moonslav59]

Over the last 10 years of team 3B WAR, there are 300 samples.

 

How do recent Sox teams rank in this 300 sample size study?

 

299th the 2015 Red Sox

286th the 2017 Red Sox (On pace to place 298th)

 

This is totally unacceptable for a team looking to win a championship. Two of the worst 3 seasons by a position in a 10 year period! If you count the second half of 2016 we've had a horrific 5 out of 6 half seasons at 3B.

 

standing pat is risking a good chance at winning a ring.

[moonslav59]

2015-2017 combined 3B WAR:

 

1) 21.1 Cubs

5) 13.4 Cards

10) 10.8 SEA

15) 7.8 MIL

20) 5.8 MIA

25) 2.9 DET

30) -2.8 BOS

 

(29th place is +2.2 ATL. We are 5.0 away from the second worst team at 3B over the last 2.5 years! That is astounding!

 

No other team is 5 points ahead or behind the next ranked team.)

 

[S5Dewey]

Marrero has done well lately, but he's not a plus 3Bman. He's not even replacement level.

 

The best way to improve our chances at winning is probably to turn a negative position into an average one or better.

 

3B is a huge problem despite the fact that Marrero has addressed the defensive issue at 3B and has seemingly convinced some here that he will hit well enough going forward that we can continue winning despite his weak bat.

 

What Marrero is doing is either very good for the Sox or very bad.

 

It's great while he does it but IF it doesn't continue this streak may make Farrell keep him there longer than he should.

[Bellhorn04]

Marrero has done well lately, but he's not a plus 3Bman. He's not even replacement level.

 

Incorrect, he had a 0.2 bWAR entering today. And it will go up today.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Bellhorn04

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I completely agree. I don't think we can just stand pat with guys producing some of the worst production of any position in the MLB. I am completely against gutting the farm system anymore though for a guy like Moustakas. We just need a league average guy and its an upgrade and we only need him for at most 1/2 the season. Devers will definitely be ready by next season.

 

The Royals are 3 behind the Guardians for first place; 2 and 1/2 behind the Yankees for the first wild card; 1/2 behind the Rays for the second wild card. I think we can forget about Moustakas. The Royals will probably be buyers at the trade deadline--not sellers.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

If Marrero can hit a little, he would profile as a starting MLB SS due to his glove. His bat has been so futile in the minor leagues--it is hard to take his recent performance seriously, but stranger things have happened. Maybe he made an adjustment at the plate or something like that.

 

If Marrero can hit a little, the Red Sox would have a nice trade chip for the off-season.

[Kimmi]

Marrero has done well lately, but he's not a plus 3Bman. He's not even replacement level.

 

The best way to improve our chances at winning is probably to turn a negative position into an average one or better.

 

3B is a huge problem despite the fact that Marrero has addressed the defensive issue at 3B and has seemingly convinced some here that he will hit well enough going forward that we can continue winning despite his weak bat.

 

I keep saying that improving our offense starts with the guys that we already have doing what they're capable of doing. If they can do that, then we can possibly hide a weak bat in the #9 hole for a little while.

 

But I agree, Marrero is not the answer long term.

[Kimmi]

I completely agree. I don't think we can just stand pat with guys producing some of the worst production of any position in the MLB. I am completely against gutting the farm system anymore though for a guy like Moustakas. We just need a league average guy and its an upgrade and we only need him for at most 1/2 the season. Devers will definitely be ready by next season.

 

I am 100% certain that Dombrowski is not going to stand pat. That's not how he operates. He will make a move, whether it be a trade or a Devers call up. He just doesn't have to rush to make that move because the team is still winning despite our hole.

[moonslav59]

Incorrect, he had a 0.2 bWAR entering today. And it will go up today.

 

If you think he will keep this up, I have some ocean front property for sale in Arizona...

 

BTW, fangraphs has him at 0.0 before today's big game.

Edited July 3, 2017 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

I am 100% certain that Dombrowski is not going to stand pat. That's not how he operates. He will make a move, whether it be a trade or a Devers call up. He just doesn't have to rush to make that move because the team is still winning despite our hole.

 

We had a good chance at winning it all last year, and DD kept it somewhat minor after he traded for Pom before the deadline. He traded scraps for Ziegler, A Hill and Abad. Was the hole in the rotation that necessitated the Pom trade as big as the hole we have at 3B right now in DD's eyes? Maybe.

 

Maybe he will trade the equivalent of Espi (Groome, Devers or Travis) for a better 3Bman than I think we need, and I'll probably complain, if he does, but I'm holding out hope we can win in the next 3 years and still keep our big 3 prospects.

[moonslav59]

I keep saying that improving our offense starts with the guys that we already have doing what they're capable of doing. If they can do that, then we can possibly hide a weak bat in the #9 hole for a little while.

 

But I agree, Marrero is not the answer long term.

 

Kimmi, I know we both agree on a lot of things and think we went too far trading away too much of the farm over DD's reign, but would you be terribly upset, if we traded Ockimey and someone like Callahan or another rule 5 candidate for Frazier or Lowrie?

 

I don't see it as hurting our future enough to outweigh improving our 3B position from belwo or at replacement level to average 3b production and defense. I hate trading for rentals, but trades like the Ziegler trade last year are worth it, to me.

[moonslav59]

Incorrect, he had a 0.2 bWAR entering today. And it will go up today.

 

Even if we get 0.0 or 0.2 WAR from Marrero through the end of the season and in the playoffs, we'd still rank 26th or 27th in MLB 3B team WAR. That's still not close to average.

 

Can we possibly win with one weak link so far below average? Maybe. Win a championship? Probably not to maybe.

 

Upgrading a severe weak link like 3B from 26th or 27th to about 15th is a big enough improvement to increase our chances of winning significantly.

 

I'm not for overpaying for the upgrade, so when actual offers are presented, I would, for example, think keeping Marrero and Lin is a better option than trading Travis for Frazier.

 

We'll see.

[Emp9]

We had a good chance at winning it all last year, and DD kept it somewhat minor after he traded for Pom before the deadline. He traded scraps for Ziegler, A Hill and Abad. Was the hole in the rotation that necessitated the Pom trade as big as the hole we have at 3B right now in DD's eyes? Maybe.

 

Maybe he will trade the equivalent of Espi (Groome, Devers or Travis) for a better 3Bman than I think we need, and I'll probably complain, if he does, but I'm holding out hope we can win in the next 3 years and still keep our big 3 prospects.

 

If Devers and Travis were years away, I could see DD trading them but they're just too close- w/ both corners in need, especially next season. Keeping Groome is also the smarter play. I hope we stand pat (to an extent). See if Peralta can show signs of life these next few weeks. Lin isn't hurting us and I loved those back-to-back bunts last night before Betts went yard. If that was Farrell's doing, I tip my cap. Team's bats are starting to wake up and it might be for good.

[sk7326]

We had a good chance at winning it all last year, and DD kept it somewhat minor after he traded for Pom before the deadline. He traded scraps for Ziegler, A Hill and Abad. Was the hole in the rotation that necessitated the Pom trade as big as the hole we have at 3B right now in DD's eyes? Maybe.

 

Maybe he will trade the equivalent of Espi (Groome, Devers or Travis) for a better 3Bman than I think we need, and I'll probably complain, if he does, but I'm holding out hope we can win in the next 3 years and still keep our big 3 prospects.

 

I think Devers is probably more likely than trading because the options for dealing just aren't very good ... Beltre is the obvious best choice, but the Rangers are 2 games out of the playoffs with a positive run differential (and a bunch of teams to hop over granted). I am not sure they hit the eject button too readily.

 

July 21, when the post-ASB West Coast Swing starts ... might be the most sensible date

[Kimmi]

Kimmi, I know we both agree on a lot of things and think we went too far trading away too much of the farm over DD's reign, but would you be terribly upset, if we traded Ockimey and someone like Callahan or another rule 5 candidate for Frazier or Lowrie?

 

I don't see it as hurting our future enough to outweigh improving our 3B position from belwo or at replacement level to average 3b production and defense. I hate trading for rentals, but trades like the Ziegler trade last year are worth it, to me.

 

I would be okay with this type of trade. Like you, I am hoping not to have to part with Groome, Devers, or Travis. I don't see our situation at 3B as being as urgent as our need for a starting pitcher was last year.

[Dojji]

I have a horrible feeling that DD doesn't think he has a hole at 3B, at least not a longterm one. That he's still waiting for the face-saving, franchise-altering mirage that is "a healthy Pablo Sandoval."