3rd Third III

[Jack Flap]

The Big D is making some moves today.

[a700hitter]

He doesn't sit around and hope that the plan works out.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

The Big D is making some moves today.

 

You call these "moves"?

 

Just joking.

[Emp9]

Interesting. Can he play 3B?

 

I would describe these moves as "the least you could do" type of moves. They 'aight. I suggested Fister a couple winters ago right off his down year and he did fine as Houston's #5. I'm willing to bet Peralta is still better defensively than Panda at this point, and about the same or worse with the bat. These are fine depth moves that are worth a gander. For now.

[a700hitter]

I would describe these moves as "the least you could do" type of moves. They 'aight. I suggested Fister a couple winters ago right off his down year and he did fine as Houston's #5. I'm willing to bet Peralta is still better defensively than Panda at this point, and about the same or worse with the bat. These are fine depth moves that are worth a gander. For now.

Not enough to print WS tickets?

[Jack Flap]

You call these "moves"?

 

Just joking.

 

Not splashy ones, obviously, but yeah. If Fister is any better than Velazquez/Kendrick/Owens and Peralta is any better than Marrero/Rutledge, then we've improved the team without giving up a thing. At the very least, we'll have a better idea of what our needs are as the deadline inches closer. Both could be utter flops, of course, but from where I'm sitting it sure beats complacency.

[S5Dewey]

It looks like Peralta has a $10M contract which won't count against the LT as long as he's in Pawtucket. Once he gets called up he'll be getting ~$61,700/game. If he plays in 50 games that's just over $3M toward the LT. IIRC that's almost half of our buffer between the current salary and the LT limit.

[Jack Flap]

It looks like Peralta has a $10M contract which won't count against the LT as long as he's in Pawtucket. Once he gets called up he'll be getting ~$61,700/game. If he plays in 50 games that's just over $3M toward the LT. IIRC that's almost half of our buffer between the current salary and the LT limit.

 

Boston will only owe Peralta a pro-rated portion of the league-minimum salary for any time he spends in the majors, with the Cards responsible for the rest of the $10MM he’s owed in 2017.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/06/red-sox-sign-jhonny-peralta.html

[Northern Star]

Peralta's sparkling .204 average and -0.3 WAR are welcome additions.

 

Fister needs to change his name.

[moonslav59]

Boston will only owe Peralta a pro-rated portion of the league-minimum salary for any time he spends in the majors, with the Cards responsible for the rest of the $10MM he’s owed in 2017.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/06/red-sox-sign-jhonny-peralta.html

 

That's good news. I wouldn't have wasted half out summer allotment on Peralta.

[Kimmi]

I think that it would make a great talksox story though if Devers was packaged up and traded for Moustakas and then Moustakas was signed for 3 or 4 years to play third base for us. Oh boy oh boy - Lets go trader DD!

 

I would not put it past Dombrowski to do something like this, and overpay in the process. He is 'all in' for the next 3 years, so if he sees adding a 3B as the difference maker, he is not going to stop one piece short.

 

I did read somewhere that Moustakas has a terrible out of zone swing rate, no better than Pablo's. That is something to beware of.

[a700hitter]

I would not put it past Dombrowski to do something like this, and overpay in the process. He is 'all in' for the next 3 years, so if he sees adding a 3B as the difference maker, he is not going to stop one piece short.

 

I did read somewhere that Moustakas has a terrible out of zone swing rate, no better than Pablo's. That is something to beware of.

He stopped short on one big piece -- replacing Papi's bat, and there were some big sticks available.

[notin]

Peralta's sparkling .204 average and -0.3 WAR are welcome additions.

 

Fister needs to change his name.

 

He also has 58 at bats through roughly 58 games..

[Jasonbay44]

I know Marrero has somehow probably been the best option. But his hitting has gotten so atrocious he's not even a plus anymore, even with his defense. You just can't continue trotting a guy out there hitting .160, OBP under .200 and an OPS under .500. At least his -0.2 WAR is slightly beating out Rutledge (-0.4) and Pablo (-0.9)!

[oldtimer]

I know Marrero has somehow probably been the best option. But his hitting has gotten so atrocious he's not even a plus anymore, even with his defense. You just can't continue trotting a guy out there hitting .160, OBP under .200 and an OPS under .500. At least his -0.2 WAR is slightly beating out Rutledge (-0.4) and Pablo (-0.9)!

 

I agree. The offense stops when we get to Marrero. We have Lin who was batting 305 in the minors. We have devers in the minors. the time has come to move forward on a different path. I'd like to see us take our best chance of winning and Marrero certaining isn't helping at all on offense.

[Spudboy]

I know Marrero has somehow probably been the best option. But his hitting has gotten so atrocious he's not even a plus anymore, even with his defense. You just can't continue trotting a guy out there hitting .160, OBP under .200 and an OPS under .500. At least his -0.2 WAR is slightly beating out Rutledge (-0.4) and Pablo (-0.9)!

 

Lol.

 

You have obviously squinted to see the dim light at the end of the tunnel.

[moonslav59]

Lol.

 

You have obviously squinted to see the dim light at the end of the tunnel.

 

There's been no light in the 3B tunnel this year. Choosing the lesser of all evils is not helping us win.

[moonslav59]

Innings at 3B this year:

 

223 Marrero

213 Pablo

139 Rutledge

72 Hernandez

8 Holt

4 Selsky

1 Vaz

 

 

[oldtimer]

Innings at 3B this year:

 

223 Marrero

213 Pablo

139 Rutledge

72 Hernandez

8 Holt

4 Selsky

1 Vaz

 

 

 

Red Sox Management and FO personnel tell themselves that Devers is not ready. But when they say that, they should consider the question, "In comparison to who?" Any offensive help we can get at this point might just win a game or two. In September if we fall short by a game or two it will be too late to make a move. Either Devers or outside help is needed. I woulld prefer giving Devers a try rather than spending big on some has been.

[Kimmi]

Red Sox Management and FO personnel tell themselves that Devers is not ready. But when they say that, they should consider the question, "In comparison to who?" Any offensive help we can get at this point might just win a game or two. In September if we fall short by a game or two it will be too late to make a move. Either Devers or outside help is needed. I woulld prefer giving Devers a try rather than spending big on some has been.

 

I am guessing that Dombrowski is feeling out the trade market and will continue to do so until the deadline, unless we start to really fall behind in the standings. As many have said, despite all of our issues, we are tied for 1st place, so it's not time to panic.

 

The team appears not to want to rush Devers, but if we can't trade for a solid 3B, I bet Devers gets the call around the deadline.

[S5Dewey]

I am guessing that Dombrowski is feeling out the trade market and will continue to do so until the deadline, unless we start to really fall behind in the standings. As many have said, despite all of our issues, we are tied for 1st place, so it's not time to panic.

 

The team appears not to want to rush Devers, but if we can't trade for a solid 3B, I bet Devers gets the call around the deadline.

 

That could very well be. As long as DD is allowed to 'tread water' he's giving Devers more experience in the minors. Which reminds me... I need to get to Portland to see this guy in person! Devers, not DD.

[Jack Flap]

The team appears not to want to rush Devers, but if we can't trade for a solid 3B, I bet Devers gets the call around the deadline.

 

This seems like the most realistic timeline to me as well.

 

Hopefully Peralta gets a chance in the near future...I'm not expecting anything great from him, but he's been adequate offensively in the fairly recent past (90 wRC+ in 2016, 104 two years ago). If all we're looking for is someone who can hit better than Marrero, as people keep saying, then it's certainly worth a shot before rushing Devers up.

[Kimmi]

That could very well be. As long as DD is allowed to 'tread water' he's giving Devers more experience in the minors. Which reminds me... I need to get to Portland to see this guy in person! Devers, not DD.

 

I felt like Dombrowski was a little rash in some of his moves last season. You know it has to be tempting to call Devers up. I'm glad that he is being more patient this season.

[Kimmi]

This seems like the most realistic timeline to me as well.

 

Hopefully Peralta gets a chance in the near future...I'm not expecting anything great from him, but he's been adequate offensively in the fairly recent past (90 wRC+ in 2016, 104 two years ago). If all we're looking for is someone who can hit better than Marrero, as people keep saying, then it's certainly worth a shot before rushing Devers up.

 

Yeah, I forgot about Peralta. I agree that it makes sense to give him a look.

[Emp9]

Yeah, I forgot about Peralta. I agree that it makes sense to give him a look.

 

That's an expensive look considering where our budget is at. I'd rather callup Devers and wait and see on whether Peralta is anything close to his former self in the minors. Money-wise this would make way more sense.

[Dojji]

I would ten thousand times rather go pick up a veteran than put Devers development track at risk. Haven't we ruined enough prospects over the years by screwing with them based on what we needed rather than what they were ready to provide? Do we really want to risk throwing away another piece of the 5 year plan just because DD doesn't know what he's doing at third base?

 

Does anyone remember Blake Swihart? Gee I wonder what happened to the poor guy. Oh that's right, WE DID. He stepped in to fill a role he wasn't remotely ready fore because WE DIDN'T PLAN WELL, and look what it got him. We keep throwing bodies into the breach before they're ready because of failures of planning and a refusal to accept replacement players. We did the same thing to Will Middlebrooks, we were doing the same thing to Moncada, now you guys want to do it to Devers because clearly, history shows it works so well.

 

At what point do we wake up and realize that fooling with a prospect's developmental schedule solely based on big league needs and with no regard for the readiness of the prospect IS THE PROBLEM?

 

Take the time, be patient, and LET YOUR PROSPECTS DEVELOP IN THE MINORS. When you move them up move them up because they're ready, not because you screwed up your organizational plan so hard that you need to risk expensive high reward assets just to cover your own backside. It's not that hard. Or it isn't if your organizational planning is up to scratch.

 

we're not planning on being uncompetitive in the years when Devers is supposed to be the star of the middle of our order. We will desperately need that big bat later on when we're trying to win titles in 2020 and later. There is no need to take the risks involved in getting happy feet with the guy and crowding him into a big league lineup before he's ready to handle the transition. We will need that asset later when it's fully developed and in a cap era, we want those cap friendly years to be used to maximum effect so we can bring in enough other talent to win titles. The pattern of harvesting long before the fruit is ripe is a pattern of starvation and I really don't like what I'm seeing on that basis, and even when it does work it makes talent more expensive in its prime. It's a pattern we desperately need to break away from, even if that means accepting holes in the roster in the immediate term while we reorgainze our plan and adjust our priorities.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Dojji

[Emp9]

I would ten thousand times rather go pick up a veteran than put Devers development track at risk. Haven't we ruined enough prospects over the years by screwing with them based on what we needed rather than what they were ready to provide? Hell does anyone remember Blake Swihart? Gee I wonder what happened to the poor guy. Oh that's right, WE DID. We did the same thing to Will Middlebrooks, we were doing the same thing to Moncada, now you guys want to do it to Devers because clearly, history shows it works so well.

 

At what point do we wake up and realize that fooling with a prospect's developmental schedule solely based on big league needs and with no regard for the readiness of the prospect IS THE PROBLEM?

 

Take the time, be patient, and LET YOUR PROSPECTS DEVELOP IN THE MINORS. When you move them up move them up because they're ready, not because you screwed up your organizational plan so hard that you need to risk expensive high reward assets just to cover your own ass. It's not that hard. Or it isn't if your organizational planning is up to scratch.

 

Yeah, they really screwd-up Betts, JBJ, Benintendi, Pedrioa, Shaw, ERod. You right..What am I thinking?

[Dojji]

All of Betts, Benintendi, Pedroia, Shaw and ERod were developed on more or less reasonable timeframes and had full development in the minors before they were leaned on for big league production. Benintendi was on the light side of the development cycle and there seem to have been some consequences, fortunately he's a complete enough player that he handled the transition well despite organizational incompetence forcing him into the lineup slightly prematurely

 

More to the point, they had other plans in hand to deal with the production at those positions if the prospects proved they needed a little more time in the oven. Benintendi and Shaw were covered by Holt, Pedroia was covered by Mark Loretta and Alex Cora, E-Rod was brought in properly as a bottom of the rotation guy. Mookie Betts actually started out as a replacement second basemen because Victorino, Ellsbury and Gomes were getting it done in the outfield at the time.

 

They nearly screwed up JBJ due to a lack of organizational foresight and got rewarded with 2 extremely unproductive years that will make his prime more expensive, he's a prime example of rushing a guy and getting lucky, and why you don't do that even when it works.

[Emp9]

All of Betts, Benintendi, Pedroia, Shaw and ERod were developed on more or less reasonable timeframes and had full development in the minors before they were leaned on for big league production. Benintendi was on the light side of the development cycle and there seem to have been some consequences, fortunately he's a complete enough player that he handled the transition well despite organizational incompetence forcing him into the lineup slightly prematurely

 

More to the point, they had other plans in hand to deal with the production at those positions if the prospects proved they needed a little more time in the oven. Benintendi and Shaw were covered by Holt, Pedroia was covered by Mark Loretta and Alex Cora, E-Rod was brought in properly as a bottom of the rotation guy. Mookie Betts actually started out as a replacement second basemen because Victorino, Ellsbury and Gomes were getting it done in the outfield at the time.

 

They nearly screwed up JBJ due to a lack of organizational foresight and got rewarded with 2 extremely unproductive years that will make his prime more expensive, he's a prime example of rushing a guy and getting lucky, and why you don't do that even when it works.

 

I'm well aware of the history. Just take our OF. Our whole starting OF were considered "rushed" by many. Betts was not only "rushed", but had to change positions and learn OF on the fly.

 

JBJ was actually rushed a couple times, but it didn't ruin him and here he is. I would argue JBJ's multiple promotions & demotions actually helped him in the long run.

 

Swihart was rushed when Vaz ( and Hanigan) went down to injury that year, but he was holding his own in the majors, so much so, that the Sox eventually wanted to try him in LF to keep his bat in the lineup the following year. Swihart is struggling coming back from a bad ankle injury, not because he couldn't cut it and that being rushed to the majors somehow ruined him.

 

I highly doubt Moncada's week of MLB coffee ruined him. Plus, maybe Middlebroks wasn't THAT good of a player to begin with. Ever think of that?

 

The Red Sox have very little wiggle room on how they solve 3B this season. I'd give Devers a look before we had to make a trade or promote Peralta (both would cost $ towards the limit). If he's any good it won't scar him for life and he actually might learn something to improve his game even more. Hell, even if Devers does fine, we can still make a trade and send him back, at least that way we won't look so gd desperate.

[moonslav59]

I'm well aware of the history. Just take our OF. Our whole starting OF were considered "rushed" by many. Betts was not only "rushed", but had to change positions and learn OF on the fly.

 

JBJ was actually rushed a couple times, but it didn't ruin him and here he is. I would argue JBJ's multiple promotions & demotions actually helped him in the long run.

 

Swihart was rushed when Vaz ( and Hanigan) went down to injury that year, but he was holding his own in the majors, so much so, that the Sox eventually wanted to try him in LF to keep his bat in the lineup the following year. Swihart is struggling coming back from a bad ankle injury, not because he couldn't cut it and that being rushed to the majors somehow ruined him.

 

I highly doubt Moncada's week of MLB coffee ruined him. Plus, maybe Middlebroks wasn't THAT good of a player to begin with. Ever think of that?

 

The Red Sox have very little wiggle room on how they solve 3B this season. I'd give Devers a look before we had to make a trade or promote Peralta (both would cost $ towards the limit). If he's any good it won't scar him for life and he actually might learn something to improve his game even more. Hell, even if Devers does fine, we can still make a trade and send him back, at least that way we won't look so gd desperate.

 

Great post. I'd add Beni was considered "rushed" by some and seems to be doing fine at a much needed, super low budget cost.