Red Sox Outfield 2016

[mvp 78]

#4 is the Mirabelli trade. It used to be undisputed #1, but then the Theo era ended and strange things started happening at Fenway

 

I'd probably put not re-signing Cabrera at #4 (this of course is ignoring the clubhouse rumors that no one liked him). It took them almost a decade to find a suitable replacement at SS.

[Elktonnick]

Ben did not leave a disaster. Ben left this team in very good long term shape.

 

No pitching and a ridiculous payroll of non performing players. Remember Ben got fired. He didn't get fired because he left a team in very good long term shape.

[User Name]

Also, I don't think Hanley could live up to his contract as a 1b. The thing that just boggles my mind is that Hanleys worth was as a SS or 3b. A SS or 3b with an .850 OPS is worth $22 mil a year. A LF or 1b with the same, isn't. So when they went out and got a guy who's immense value was positional, then thrust him into a less positionally prominent spot thereby devaluing him immediately, it made no sense. Then the fact that he bombed out massively at the new position was the icing on the cake

 

In the current market (and that's the big caveat) if he can put up a high 800's OPS and play a good 1B, it's a defensible contract.

[User Name]

I think that's unfair criticism to Ted because we could have had x and x if we didn't sign 2 3b's.

 

True, but the Porcello extension, the Hanley contract and Castilo's (although Jacko miraculously makes valid points) could be salvageable. In the end, they were not going to pay for pitchers prior to Price either way. That's why Lester is not here anymore. If Henry really wanted to keep him, he would be here. And money's not really an object for guys like Scherzer IF they wanted to get them. But they didn't.

[User Name]

It's probably is:

Lester walking

Crawford signing to play LF

Panda signing a monster deal

 

I can't think of any other moves that were as confounding to me as the above 3.

 

Ugh. Crawford.

[mvp 78]

In the current market (and that's the big caveat) if he can put up a high 800's OPS and play a good 1B, it's a defensible contract.

 

Considering the other contracts on the books (Craig, Porcello and Panda), I don't think Hanley's contract is an albatross. It's fine.

[User Name]

Considering the other contracts on the books (Craig, Porcello and Panda), I don't think Hanley's contract is an albatross. It's fine.

 

Even without accounting for other crappy contracts, Hanley's deal (counting less years but at a higher AAV) is not obscene.

[mvp 78]

True, but the Porcello extension, the Hanley contract and Castilo's (although Jacko miraculously makes valid points) could be salvageable. In the end, they were not going to pay for pitchers prior to Price either way. That's why Lester is not here anymore. If Henry really wanted to keep him, he would be here. And money's not really an object for guys like Scherzer IF they wanted to get them. But they didn't.

 

It's not about "they would have," it's about "they should have."

 

They weren't going to pay for Lester. Mistake. They were going to pay for 2 3b's instead. Mistake. I just hope whoever decided on that s*** show has no more say in personnel decisions.

 

If Castillo was salvageable, he'd be the opening day LF. Porcello could pitch like 2014 again, but it's far from a certainty.

[mvp 78]

Ugh. Crawford.

 

Super Theo!

[User Name]

Super Theo!

 

Larry Lucchino. He admitted himself he was the driving force behind the Crawford deal. Gonzalez and his diminishing power after the shoulder injury is all Theo.

[User Name]

It's not about "they would have," it's about "they should have."

 

They weren't going to pay for Lester. Mistake. They were going to pay for 2 3b's instead. Mistake. I just hope whoever decided on that s*** show has no more say in personnel decisions.

 

If Castillo was salvageable, he'd be the opening day LF. Porcello could pitch like 2014 again, but it's far from a certainty.

 

I think the real problem was signing two 3B's. They could have corrected the Lester mistake by signing another pitcher (and they had options) in this FA market.

[mvp 78]

Larry Lucchino. He admitted himself he was the driving force behind the Crawford deal. Gonzalez and his diminishing power after the shoulder injury is all Theo.

 

But AGon trade was worth it just for the drama on Talksox they day AGon got on the plane without signing agreeing to an extension. This place flipped its lid. It was hilarious. Anthony Rizzo would look mighty nice right now though.

[sk7326]

The question will always be how hurt was Gonzalez in 2011, and whether that was predictable or just damn unlucky. What is funny is if you look at how Gonzalez has played in LA - while I don't know if I would have paid what the Sox/Dodgers paid for it ... that's a good player.

[Dojji]

No pitching and a ridiculous payroll of non performing players. Remember Ben got fired. He didn't get fired because he left a team in very good long term shape.

 

Actually Kimmi's dead on correct. Ben got fired over his management of the MLB roster but the long term health of the franchise is dependent on its farm, and our farm system was one of the best in the league, still is despite a couple expensive trades.

[mvp 78]

Actually Kimmi's dead on correct. Ben got fired over his management of the MLB roster but the long term health of the franchise is dependent on its farm, and our farm system was one of the best in the league, still is despite a couple expensive trades.

 

If he was able to find and develop young pitching, he'd still be here.

[Elktonnick]

Actually Kimmi's dead on correct. Ben got fired over his management of the MLB roster but the long term health of the franchise is dependent on its farm, and our farm system was one of the best in the league, still is despite a couple expensive trades.

 

How is that different from what I posted. Cherrington got fired. He didn't get fired for the farm system. But he did get fired, nonetheless.

[Bellhorn04]

Actually Kimmi's dead on correct. Ben got fired over his management of the MLB roster but the long term health of the franchise is dependent on its farm, and our farm system was one of the best in the league, still is despite a couple expensive trades.

 

When you evaluate the long term health of the franchise part, I think you also have to factor in the long term contracts on the books.

[a700hitter]

Actually Kimmi's dead on correct. Ben got fired over his management of the MLB roster but the long term health of the franchise is dependent on its farm, and our farm system was one of the best in the league, still is despite a couple expensive trades.

But he clogged up the major league roster with many huge useless contracts blocking the prospects.

[jung]

And what about pitching which Oh by the way WINS BASEBALL GAMES.

 

We have Owens, a control pitcher with no control who now has a post pitch pose that looks just like a bowler desperately hoping his ball hooks back off the gutter into the pocket. "Oh please, please be a strike, please". When you have a knuckle ball pitcher that does not know where its going, that is one thing. When you have a flamethrower that does not know where its going, that is another. When you have a control pitching begging the gods on every pitch for a strike, that is a whole nuther' ballgame....pardon the pun.

 

That is the most ridiculous thing I have seen from a pitcher in a long time. Pedey must have to hold onto himself to keep from peeing his drawers that is so funny from behind. And we have the ever injured Johnson....the pitching version of Kalish. The only pitchers down there that matter are two maybe more years away.

[cp176]

UN?, I don't think Castillo is very good. I haven't seen the power. His hit tool is inconsistent. His range is solid, but he's made dumb plays out there showing a general lack of baseball intellect. Merloni said it best the other day. The guy has big league tools, but he looks like an A ball player out there. And if you look like you don't know what you're doing, the manager won't trust you. A 3 way platoon tells me a lot. It tells me that DD told him to keep him on the roster, yet Farrell doesn't trust him enough to even give him regular ABs. Chris Young absolutely murders lefties. The only games Rusney will see is when Holt is needed in the infield va a righty (as Young is otherworldly terrible v righties).

 

So here are my concerns - I see Holt as a tremendous utility guy for sure. I think that I prefer seeing him being used in the infield as opposed to a great deal of time spent in the outfield. Declaring him to be your starting left fielder on opening day and the one who will play in left and hit against the majority of righties that we see all but eliminates the Castillo experiment. I think that it is to early to make that type of commitment and sorry I guess but I'm not liking Holt as an everyday outfielder.

[Kimmi]

When you evaluate the long term health of the franchise part, I think you also have to factor in the long term contracts on the books.

 

The moves that Dombrowski made this offseason were only possible because of the strength of our farm system. Henry was able to give the go ahead for Price's contract because of the cost-controlled players that we have.

 

The long term contracts have not yet prohibited other moves from being made. Despite what a700 says, they are not blocking the prospects. And as UN pointed out, Porcello, Hanley, and Castillo could still be worth the money. None of those contracts are unreasonable.

[Dojji]

I think the Sandoval mess confirms that the contracts are not blocking prospects. Shaw is not much of a prospect and he was still allowed to win a job at third base in a completely fair competition.

 

The next block is actually going to be a head on prospect vers prospect throwdown at catcher between Swihart and Vazquez that is only interesting if it ripples into Swihart playing a different position. The only other potential controversy at this time in the near future is Sam Travis at first base, and as good as he's looked this Spring there's no problem with leaving Travis in the oven for at least a few more months. I think that's probably going to be settled at the end of the year by Ortiz retiring and Hanley transitioning to DH to open a spot for Travis, assuming he still deserves one. No one is "blocked" as it is right now.

[a700hitter]

The moves that Dombrowski made this offseason were only possible because of the strength of our farm system. Henry was able to give the go ahead for Price's contract because of the cost-controlled players that we have.

 

The long term contracts have not yet prohibited other moves from being made. Despite what a700 says, they are not blocking the prospects. And as UN pointed out, Porcello, Hanley, and Castillo could still be worth the money. None of those contracts are unreasonable.

Castillo, Porcello, Hanley, and Pablo are 4 useless contracts up to this point. We have optimism about Hanley now that he is back in the IF, and Porcello still has an outside chance of earning his money, but they have used up a ton of payroll and clogged up the roster-- 4 high paid players with negative value is a ton of mistakes. These bad decisions have not crippled the Red Sox because they are a big market team, but they have hamstrung their other roster moves to some extent and clogged roster positions.

[User Name]

You keep saying they have "clogged up roster positions" when it's clear they haven't. Stop making that point, it's clearly incorrect. The fact is, they have clogged up payroll, and even as a big market team, they are feeling the effects. They may have been able to get another starter this offseason were they not saddled with Panda/Castillo. I will go on the record saying I think they can still recoup value from Castillo, but we'll see.

[sk7326]

Castillo can be moved - although with the usual caveats (eating salary and whatnot). If there is a starter there - then his salary is somewhere between reasonable and low. The Red Sox won a bidding war of some kind to sign him, and he has not actually had that many at-bats to prove anything one way or the other. So there should be somebody who'd be willing to take him on if he were available etc etc etc.

[jung]

Castillo can be moved - although with the usual caveats (eating salary and whatnot). If there is a starter there - then his salary is somewhere between reasonable and low. The Red Sox won a bidding war of some kind to sign him, and he has not actually had that many at-bats to prove anything one way or the other. So there should be somebody who'd be willing to take him on if he were available etc etc etc.

 

It has to happen now though which his why they are handling Castillo this way. 28-29 years old is no age to be completely helpless to any breaking ball thrown anywhere at any time. My God the guy does not even know how to run bases. Anyway they want this to happen now even if it costs them more....if they can just get somebody to take him.

[Bellhorn04]

The moves that Dombrowski made this offseason were only possible because of the strength of our farm system. Henry was able to give the go ahead for Price's contract because of the cost-controlled players that we have.

 

Henry gave the go ahead for Price and Kimbrel because he was willing to have the highest payroll in team history and pay a fairly large chunk of luxury tax.

[iortiz]

Castillo, Porcello, Hanley, and Pablo are 4 useless contracts up to this point. We have optimism about Hanley now that he is back in the IF, and Porcello still has an outside chance of earning his money, but they have used up a ton of payroll and clogged up the roster-- 4 high paid players with negative value is a ton of mistakes. These bad decisions have not crippled the Red Sox because they are a big market team, but they have hamstrung their other roster moves to some extent and clogged roster positions.

Well, thus far we are clogged, and it won't change drastically moving forward, IMO.

Are they going to turn around and worth the money? That's really a tough question. IMO the only one who could have a chance to worth the money is Hanley and still we have to see it. Castillo could be an average OF at best, but does he worth that contract? C'mon!. Panda was a mistake since day one, and you know what I think about Porcello.

[User Name]

It has to happen now though which his why they are handling Castillo this way. 28-29 years old is no age to be completely helpless to any breaking ball thrown anywhere at any time. My God the guy does not even know how to run bases. Anyway they want this to happen now even if it costs them more....if they can just get somebody to take him.

 

jung, you continue to make s*** up, as usual. All of the hoopla about Castillo not being able to hit breaking balls is pure made up BS, like most of the other stuff you post on here. The hilarious part is how f***ing smug you come off "Oh, the casual fan doesn't have the understanding for this and this". Well, neither do you, and the casual fan doesn't make so much s*** up.

 

Castillo's problem is literally the opposite of the BS you have been spouting. I asked some people who have forgotten a hell of a lot more about baseball than what you or I will ever know, and the immediate answer was "he can't hit quality moving fastballs" and sure enough, on FanGraphs' pitch/100 tool, the only types of pitches he actually hit with some semblance of eefectiveness were straight fastballs, sinkers and curveballs, while being slightly below average on sliders. But what he's absolutely terrible at hitting are two-seamers and cutters. It's moving velocity on the top half of the zone what he absolutely can't handle.

[sk7326]

Well, thus far we are clogged, and it won't change drastically moving forward, IMO.

Are they going to turn around and worth the money? That's really a tough question. IMO the only one who could have a chance to worth the money is Hanley and still we have to see it. Castillo could be an average OF at best, but does he worth that contract? C'mon!. Panda was a mistake since day one, and you know what I think about Porcello.

 

an average starting OF who can play CF is probably worth $12M in 2016 dollars. The years are harder to swallow. Now Castillo was a bit of a reflection of management panic - something endemic of the post 2011 Sox. Think about it.

 

Step 1: Let go of guy because you have a young replacement

Step 2: Express confidence in new guy

Step 3: Sign ambulatory guy who was an MVP candidate 8 years ago for competition in March

Step 4: Give Step3 guy starting job based on march at-bats against future minor leaguer

Step 5: Cut Step3 guy because ... of course

Step 6: Sign Castillo because 300 ABs of new guy proved he stunk out loud

Step 7: Promote budding superstar who is killing AAA levels

 

Just a lot of reactionary moves without a real big picture in mind.