Red Sox Outfield 2016

[User Name]

They are "clogging them up" even more by not giving Pablo and Castillo a chance. It might be a different story if they were in the last year of their contracts, but they aren't. Regardless, you are the one that's always saying that the Red Sox are a big market team and that they won't be hamstrung by big contracts.

 

I'm an advocate of giving Rusney a chance because regardless of mental errors, he can play D capably. That's really Panda's problem. You can't have a guy who put up a -21.6 UZR last year and who the team suspects actually got worse because of lack of conditioning coming into the season getting everyday reps at 3B. It also sets a terrible example throughout the organization, that you can get away with not following team directives if you have a big contract. You can say whatever you want about Hanley and Rusney's mental approach, but they have put in the work, and they have at least some sort of upside defensively.

 

I don't understand why Pablo should get away with something that other players have gotten benched for (and even cut) in the past as well. This isn't even an "attitude" thing, which seems to be your main gripe. Farrell has flat out said he just doesn't have the ability to be an MLB caliber defensive 3B.

[a700hitter]

Of course we're not clogged.

 

Having to eat large contracts is not something that any team should get into the habit of doing. It's terrible business. But the philosophy that Henry and Dombrowski are currently operating under means that there are no clogs.

 

Just another excuse to gripe about Ben.

 

#BringBenBack

We are not clogged? What is the role of Castillo and Alan Craig in this organization? They have none. They are taking up space.

[User Name]

We are not clogged? What is the role of Castillo and Alan Craig in this organization? They have none. They are taking up space.

 

But they can be stashed in the minors, and that won't kill the roster. About payroll, the Sox don't get to play the poverty card, and they'll have some flexibility after the offseason. They need to be smart about their future expenditures though.

[Kimmi]

Although I am putting those big money bust moves in the worst light, there is some roster clog this year. We really need to carry another middle infielder type. Holt is not enough. There is no room for another middle infielder. Castillo truly has no position on this team if Bradley is going to play full time. Castillo is not going to be part of a righty/righty platoon with Young. And in the next 2 years, these useless contracts will be standing in the way of the progress of some farmhands. Speaking of current roster clog in 2016, what is Alan Craig's role in this organization. He hit well in Spring Training. If he continues hitting .300+ in Pawtucket, what happens with him?

 

If Pablo and Castillo were starting and were playing like All Stars, we still only have Young, Holt, Shaw, and Hanigan on the bench. Regardless of the contracts of Pablo and Castillo, there is only room for one middle infielder on the bench. So once again, no clog.

 

And the fact that Pablo and Castillo still have multiple years left on their contracts is exactly why they needed to be given a chance to prove themselves in real games. None of you, including Farrell, Dombrowski, and Henry, are considering long term ramifications.

 

Panic, panic, panic.

[User Name]

If Pablo and Castillo were starting and were playing like All Stars, we still only have Young, Holt, Shaw, and Hanigan on the bench. Regardless of the contracts of Pablo and Castillo, there is only room for one middle infielder on the bench. So once again, no clog.

 

And the fact that Pablo and Castillo still have multiple years left on their contracts is exactly why they needed to be given a chance to prove themselves in real games. None of you, including Farrell, Dombrowski, and Henry, are considering long term ramifications.

 

Panic, panic, panic.

 

That's a pretty smug (and uncharacteristic) thing for you to say.

 

On Rusney, I have read a couple of sportscasters posit that Rusney is going North with the team because they plan on giving him regular AB's but want to ease up on the pressure. Some beat writers theorize that some of Rusney's problems can be traced back to him putting a lot of pressure on himself.

[a700hitter]

If Pablo and Castillo were starting and were playing like All Stars, we still only have Young, Holt, Shaw, and Hanigan on the bench. Regardless of the contracts of Pablo and Castillo, there is only room for one middle infielder on the bench. So once again, no clog.

 

And the fact that Pablo and Castillo still have multiple years left on their contracts is exactly why they needed to be given a chance to prove themselves in real games. None of you, including Farrell, Dombrowski, and Henry, are considering long term ramifications.

 

Panic, panic, panic.

Nor did Pablo think of the long term ramifications of eating his future. It is not farrell's or DD's fault that Pablo is not in a condition to perform at a high level. You keep saying that he should be given a chance. He needs to lose 20-30 lbs. He cannot play at this level competently at his current weight. He just can't. He can't run or move around at 3B. He can't center is enormous body over his legs to get on balance to make throws. He just can't perform with this weight.

[Kimmi]

I'm an advocate of giving Rusney a chance because regardless of mental errors, he can play D capably. That's really Panda's problem. You can't have a guy who put up a -21.6 UZR last year and who the team suspects actually got worse because of lack of conditioning coming into the season getting everyday reps at 3B. It also sets a terrible example throughout the organization, that you can get away with not following team directives if you have a big contract. You can say whatever you want about Hanley and Rusney's mental approach, but they have put in the work, and they have at least some sort of upside defensively.

 

I don't understand why Pablo should get away with something that other players have gotten benched for (and even cut) in the past as well. This isn't even an "attitude" thing, which seems to be your main gripe. Farrell has flat out said he just doesn't have the ability to be an MLB caliber defensive 3B.

 

You are making assumptions about how much work Pablo put in.

 

And Pablo's terrible defensive numbers from last year strongly suggest some regression. He has actually made progress defensively in the last couple of games, in particular on coming in on those slow rollers. Of course, no one bothers to mention that.

 

The point is, for many reasons, it is in the team's best interest and well worth giving him 1-2 months to sink or swim. If he fails and is then benched, the same message is still sent.

[a700hitter]

You are making assumptions about how much work Pablo put in.

 

And Pablo's terrible defensive numbers from last year strongly suggest some regression. He has actually made progress defensively in the last couple of games, in particular on coming in on those slow rollers. Of course, no one bothers to mention that.

 

The point is, for many reasons, it is in the team's best interest and well worth giving him 1-2 months to sink or swim. If he fails and is then benched, the same message is still sent.

No one is assuming anything. Pablo said it himself when he arrived at camp -- that he did not work on his fielding in the off season. His own words. No character assassination.

[Dojji]

You are making assumptions about how much work Pablo put in.

 

Assumptions based on visible, verifiable facts, such as his general physical condition and on how well he moves in the field. I have no doubt that Pablo will put himself in a better condition than he was on March 1. Whether he'll get himself into actual game shape is a thornier question.

[User Name]

You are making assumptions about how much work Pablo put in.

 

And Pablo's terrible defensive numbers from last year strongly suggest some regression. He has actually made progress defensively in the last couple of games, in particular on coming in on those slow rollers. Of course, no one bothers to mention that.

 

The point is, for many reasons, it is in the team's best interest and well worth giving him 1-2 months to sink or swim. If he fails and is then benched, the same message is still sent.

 

I am not making assumptions. An assumption needs to lack factual evidence:

 

 

This is factual evidence that Pablo did not put in the work required to lose the weight.

 

Also, you are trying to apply a statistical model to a physical impossibility. This is like you telling me Mike Lowell was going to post better defensive numbers in the last year of his career because positive regression was going to improve his defensive numbers. Well it wasn't going to happen after two hip surgeries.

 

If Farrell, after watching Sandoval take thousands of reps at 3B during the preseason comes and tells me Pablo doesn't have the range to play 3B, I can't go ahead and say that statistically, Farrell would be incorrect. It flies in the face of logic.

[Dojji]

Exactly. Unfortunately humans, even athletes, aren't statistical plot points on a graph and they don't always conform to the standard laws of probability. Reasons that have nothing to do with statistics can emerge why a player will not regress to the mean, and it can be anything from weight to injury history to personal off-the-field problems to just plain losing interest in the game (it does happen sometimes, even with players that work their way all the way to the majors).

[Kimmi]

That's a pretty smug (and uncharacteristic) thing for you to say.

 

On Rusney, I have read a couple of sportscasters posit that Rusney is going North with the team because they plan on giving him regular AB's but want to ease up on the pressure. Some beat writers theorize that some of Rusney's problems can be traced back to him putting a lot of pressure on himself.

 

It may be smug, but IMO, they are acting rashly. Rash decisions are based on NOW, with little concern about future ramifications.

 

I have said all along that I have concerns about Dombrowski's overall philosophy, in particular with the long term outlook of the team. Those concerns have not been allayed.

[User Name]

It may be smug, but IMO, they are acting rashly. Rash decisions are based on NOW, with little concern about future ramifications.

 

I have said all along that I have concerns about Dombrowski's overall philosophy, in particular with the long term outlook of the team. Those concerns have not been allayed.

 

With Rusney (if that is what they're doing)? Yes. With Pablo? No.

 

You continue to ignore the fact that he's just not viable defensively at 3B right now. He can't move, he's a statue. Farrell says it, the beat writers say it, the scouts say it, so how would you (or any of us?) know better. His contract might still be salvageable, but as of today, April 1st, 2016, he is completely useless as a ballplayer to the Boston Red Sox. They have a better defensive option at 3B, a better offensive and defensive option at 1B, and one of the best hitters in the game at DH.

[a700hitter]

It may be smug, but IMO, they are acting rashly. Rash decisions are based on NOW, with little concern about future ramifications.

We came in last place 3 of the last 4 years. When does the future come?

[a700hitter]

With Rusney (if that is what they're doing)? Yes. With Pablo? No.

 

You continue to ignore the fact that he's just not viable defensively at 3B right now. He can't move, he's a statue. Farrell says it, the beat writers say it, the scouts say it, so how would you (or any of us?) know better. His contract might still be salvageable, but as of today, April 1st, 2016, he is completely useless as a ballplayer to the Boston Red Sox. They have a better defensive option at 3B, a better offensive and defensive option at 1B, and one of the best hitters in the game at DH.

Those of us who saw him in Florida can testify that he can't move. It is not our lying eyes. The guy waddles like a fat duck.

[Dojji]

It may be smug, but IMO, they are acting rashly. Rash decisions are based on NOW, with little concern about future ramifications.

 

I have said all along that I have concerns about Dombrowski's overall philosophy, in particular with the long term outlook of the team. Those concerns have not been allayed.

 

Tell me, Kimmi, what are the future ramifications of a player over the age of 30 that is already so heavy that he needs to work on his conditioning for more than a month after reporting to the team, just to maybe be able to play his position at an adequate level? What are the long term consequences of coddling or enabling that kind of player?

 

Are the consequences of giving sandoval "chances" really any worse than those of letting Shaw beat him out for the job after a very strong Spring, where Shaw clearly showed up able to do the required job from day 1 and Pablo clearly dodn't, and hopefully incentivize Sandoval to put in the work required to win his way back into the lineup?

 

If Sandoval takes this lesson to heart, and works his tail off to get back into condition to actually be a major leaguer, rather than just being one by default strictly because the team's still on the hook for his contract, then my concerns about his character are nullified. If he doesn't, they are verified, and I would not have wanted him playing fulltime again even if he could physically stand the strain of doing so, which his recent back injury on a normal diving play suggests is probably not the case at this time. I will not run a player out onto that ballfield who can not do the job, or stand the strain physically of attempting to do the job, and that's where Pablo is right now. All other considerations aside the risk of additional injury and harm to Sandoval himself is just too great to give him "chances" until he shows sufficient physical improvement.

[mvp 78]

Of course we're not clogged.

 

Having to eat large contracts is not something that any team should get into the habit of doing. It's terrible business. But the philosophy that Henry and Dombrowski are currently operating under means that there are no clogs.

 

Just another excuse to gripe about Ben.

 

#BringBenBack

 

Where was I griping about Ben?

[mvp 78]

I'm an advocate of giving Rusney a chance because regardless of mental errors, he can play D capably. That's really Panda's problem. You can't have a guy who put up a -21.6 UZR last year and who the team suspects actually got worse because of lack of conditioning coming into the season getting everyday reps at 3B. It also sets a terrible example throughout the organization, that you can get away with not following team directives if you have a big contract. You can say whatever you want about Hanley and Rusney's mental approach, but they have put in the work, and they have at least some sort of upside defensively.

 

I don't understand why Pablo should get away with something that other players have gotten benched for (and even cut) in the past as well. This isn't even an "attitude" thing, which seems to be your main gripe. Farrell has flat out said he just doesn't have the ability to be an MLB caliber defensive 3B.

 

Plus, Pablo was given a fair chance. He was given all of last year and he ending up being a -2 WAR player and the worst fulltime positional player in the bigs.

[mvp 78]

We are not clogged? What is the role of Castillo and Alan Craig in this organization? They have none. They are taking up space.

 

Craig is not taking up space. He's helping to pick up bar tabs for the AAA guys. He's not in the way of anyone.

[mvp 78]

It may be smug, but IMO, they are acting rashly. Rash decisions are based on NOW, with little concern about future ramifications.

 

I have said all along that I have concerns about Dombrowski's overall philosophy, in particular with the long term outlook of the team. Those concerns have not been allayed.

 

The future ramification of Pablo starting and tanking for 2 months is Farrell potentially losing his job and the Sox falling so far behind that they wind up in last place again.

[a700hitter]

Craig is not taking up space. He's helping to pick up bar tabs for the AAA guys. He's not in the way of anyone.

And the occasional after game food spread.

[mvp 78]

And the occasional after game food spread.

 

"Hey guys, the couch in the locker room sucks. Mind if I run to Cardi's and buy a new one?"

[sk7326]

If Pablo and Castillo were starting and were playing like All Stars, we still only have Young, Holt, Shaw, and Hanigan on the bench. Regardless of the contracts of Pablo and Castillo, there is only room for one middle infielder on the bench. So once again, no clog.

 

And the fact that Pablo and Castillo still have multiple years left on their contracts is exactly why they needed to be given a chance to prove themselves in real games. None of you, including Farrell, Dombrowski, and Henry, are considering long term ramifications.

 

Panic, panic, panic.

 

There is no real clogging of the roster. The fact is that Panda-Shaw-Castillo-Holt-Young were going to be the five guys occupying those positions leaving camp. (assuming 12 pitchers, which i always thought was going to be the case) Now the identities of the starters vs the bench guys changed - and credit to Farrell for actually making a merit based decision and not playing dollar signs. I think the LF deal is fairly open - Castillo has not been shut out of anything. Heck if Castillo plays well, Young might be deployed more as a platoon partner with Bradley.

 

All of these decisions can be changed - and it's not like the roster would have been deployed differently. Shaw would have been backing up 1B/3B. Sandoval will be backing up ... now it is embarassing that he is being compensated so lavishly for this job, but that is not my problem.

[Spudboy]

You are making assumptions about how much work Pablo put in.

 

And Pablo's terrible defensive numbers from last year strongly suggest some regression. He has actually made progress defensively in the last couple of games, in particular on coming in on those slow rollers. Of course, no one bothers to mention that.

 

The point is, for many reasons, it is in the team's best interest and well worth giving him 1-2 months to sink or swim. If he fails and is then benched, the same message is still sent.

 

And I did not mention how he could not get to a ball down the line that ended up being a double ( generous scoring ) for MCutchen two days ago. A reasonably talented 3rd baseman would have snagged that ball and fired to first for the out, McCutchen's speed not withstanding.

 

Why you continue to be blind to the obvious about Pablo's range and mobility is curious. Plays like the above can cost runs and extend innings. With this staff, this could be a disaster.

 

Now if Pablo somehow gets back into playable shape and Shaw stumbles, then yeah, Pablo should start. Until such time let him collect splinters.

[Spudboy]

It may be smug, but IMO, they are acting rashly. Rash decisions are based on NOW, with little concern about future ramifications.

 

I have said all along that I have concerns about Dombrowski's overall philosophy, in particular with the long term outlook of the team. Those concerns have not been allayed.

 

But Kimmi the games need to be played in the now too. Are you advocating sucking now so we have a better chance to be good later? After two years of being in the basement?

[Spudboy]

"Hey guys, the couch in the locker room sucks. Mind if I run to Cardi's and buy a new one?"

 

Lulz.

 

Although non-indigenous fans probably don't know about the Cardi schlock outlets.

[mvp 78]

But Kimmi the games need to be played in the now too. Are you advocating sucking now so we have a better chance to be good later? After two years of being in the basement?

 

This is a team that was built to win in the now in 2011 and signed some high priced contracts. That team absolutely failed down the stretch and the FO and coaching staff was blown up.

 

They brought in Bobby V to right the ship in 2012, but that only alienated all of the players and brought them to a .500 record at the AS break. They decided to completely blow up that team with a ridiculous trade to the Dodgers.

 

The next year, they made some shrewd short term moves and struck lightning in a bottle with Koji and Papi in October. Those two should have statues outside of Fenway for eternity.

 

In 2014, they brought back the WS team and struggled due to age, injury and other factors. When the team needed replacements, the upper farm system was barren so they wound up in last place again and fans stopped watching after the team gave up on the season with the Lester trade.

 

In 2015, they brought in some high profile free agents who promptly s*** the bed and struggled from April on. By the time Farrell was sick and replaced by Lovullo, that majority of fans were sick of the middling baseball and stopped watching. The kids put up a good fight down the stretch but still wound up in last place due to a lack of pitching.

 

In 2016, they come back with largely the same team except that they brought in a guy to finally replace Lester. I'm not sure why the common fan would be excited about this considering the recent track record. Most normal people (i.e. not obsessives like us) have little to no idea who Travis Shaw is. Another year of suckitude would wreck the bottom line (attendance would be down, concessions would be down, viewership would be down), which is arguably more important to ownership than winning. They want to field a competitive team today and it's hard to blame them for that...

[sk7326]

It may be smug, but IMO, they are acting rashly. Rash decisions are based on NOW, with little concern about future ramifications.

 

I have said all along that I have concerns about Dombrowski's overall philosophy, in particular with the long term outlook of the team. Those concerns have not been allayed.

 

Dombrowski can do whatever his bosses want him to do. That is the interesting thing. He has built farm systems, he has run a "now, now, now" shop. I made peace with the Cherington business. The major league ballclub is all that matters (the organization is super important, but only in service to the big league team) - and the major league club did not do its thing well enough.

 

Now the process had spawned the best era in the post-integration part of Red Sox History. Changes needed to be made - I just think Henry went to the sledgehammer and by his press comments, seems entirely at leave with his senses. (his statements on analytics particularly bizarre since that is how he got rich) It's like he was a born-again of some flavour. The offseason has been strong - even with the fetishizing of the closer position.

 

I am curious how this will work out - especially if John Henry caught the same bug Mike Ilitch did.

[mvp 78]

Lulz.

 

Although non-indigenous fans probably don't know about the Cardi schlock outlets.

 

Jordan's? They'd at least know it from the NESN coverage.

[Bellhorn04]

Sure, but why was he willing to do that? Because he knew that doing so would not cripple the team long term because of the cost-controlled players that are currently on the team and the ones that are 1-3 years away.

 

I'm not disputing your point about the cost-controlled players. But we can't ignore the potential contract albatrosses that Ben left the team with. The bottom line for 2016 is that we have a mammoth payroll and a team that projects for 84 wins or so.