Devers Trade looks fantastic now....

[bobo52]

Trading Devers and his $29 million a year contracts looks like an excellent move with him having a mediocre age 29 year with the Giants  - currently posting a  786 OPS and 1.6 WAR.  The real trade was to use the Devers money to pick up Wilson Contreras for $18 million a year (for 3 years) who is more productive at almost half the cost with a .912 OPS and 4.0 WAR.  In addition the Red Sox  got Kyle Harrison in the Devers trade -  who (along with Shane Drohan) was traded for Caleb Durbin (.729 OPS and 3.3 WAR) , Andrew Monasterio  (.776, 1.5) and Anthony Siegler  (.708, .5).  

Receiving anything back in return - was a bonus - the real win was unloading the big-money contract that will pay a declining skill hitter that we would have paid for 8 more years - until he is 37 in 2034.    Of course Durbin on his own looks to be better than Devers right now and they pay him $800K and have 2 more years of team control.

So to recap:  We got Contreras, Monasterio and Durbin who now cost us under $20  million a year combined  - and the Red Sox gave up Devers and his $29 million a year contracts.  

Devers contract made him replaceable by a highly paid free agent - he just wasnt worth it.  Team control and good contracts are a necessity to build a winner.  If you throw money in bad contracts away to keep a star on the decline the team will suffer.  

Breslow gets an Aplus for this move now that we can look at other in hindsight.  

[notin]

I like the Devers trade but I am not so sure he’s declining already at age 29.  There’s a difference between declining and having a bad year…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

4 minutes ago, notin said:

I like the Devers trade but I am not so sure he’s declining already at age 29.  There’s a difference between declining and having a bad year…

He's not declining in San Fran; when they ask him to play 1B, he says yes.

But if he was only a DH, he'd be reclining... between at bats.

[dannycater]

No, the Sox still have a major void at DH--even now with Yoshida on the shelf...yes lucked out in another trade with Milwaukee to get 3 Sox contributors, 2 starters...but in a million years that was still a bad trade to me. Devers 81 games at Fenway means more home runs (they need power,  they have basically won due to power with Abreu and Contreras and Durbin big bombs of course), more doubles. Fenway adds to Devers stats to me.  The Sox have a struggling All-Star catcher now and lucked on the Contreras addition. I'd take Devers back in a milisecond.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, notin said:

I like the Devers trade but I am not so sure he’s declining already at age 29.  There’s a difference between declining and having a bad year…

Agreed. I will add this though....

OPS+

151 in '24

130 in '25

120 in '26

While 130 is still impressive, it was a decline, too- making this 2 years in a row.

BTW, 130 and 120 are his 6th and 7th worst seasons out of 8 with 400+ PAs.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, dannycater said:

No, the Sox still have a major void at DH--even now with Yoshida on the shelf...yes lucked out in another trade with Milwaukee to get 3 Sox contributors, 2 starters...but in a million years that was still a bad trade to me. Devers 81 games at Fenway means more home runs (they need power,  they have basically won due to power with Abreu and Contreras and Durbin big bombs of course), more doubles. Fenway adds to Devers stats to me.  The Sox have a struggling All-Star catcher now and lucked on the Contreras addition. I'd take Devers back in a milisecond.

A Monasterio & Romy platoon might come close to .786.

Maybe White & Jones can pitch in to boost it upwards.

(Notice I did not say Duran or Anthony.)

[JoeBrady]

3 hours ago, bobo52 said:

Receiving anything back in return - was a bonus -

I was shocked we got anything back.  If Posey had countered with, 'we'll take his contract, but you'll get nothing in return', is there any chance Breslow walks away?  IMHO, just needed to dump Devers at any reasonable cost, including picking up some salary.  I don't think there was a chance of Devers staying.

[notin]

6 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

I was shocked we got anything back.  If Posey had countered with, 'we'll take his contract, but you'll get nothing in return', is there any chance Breslow walks away?  IMHO, just needed to dump Devers at any reasonable cost, including picking up some salary.  I don't think there was a chance of Devers staying.

Well, we kinda did take back some salary in the form of Jordan Hicks.  But that deal was a bit small abd I was surprised about the inclusions of Harrison and Tibbs…

[JoeBrady]

2 hours ago, dannycater said:

lucked out in another trade with Milwaukee ... and Durbin big bombs of course), more doubles. ... lucked on the Contreras addition.

Interesting that you mentioned luck twice, but glad to see you praise Durbin as Devers replacement.

[JoeBrady]

4 minutes ago, notin said:

Well, we kinda did take back some salary in the form of Jordan Hicks.  But that deal was a bit small abd I was surprised about the inclusions of Harrison and Tibbs…

I think Hicks should've been the minimum in order to take Devers salary.  And, FWIW, Hicks has a 2.10 over his last 33 games.  I think he was finished in SF, but he still had some value in reverting to his previous form.

[JoeBrady]

3 hours ago, notin said:

I like the Devers trade but I am not so sure he’s declining already at age 29.  There’s a difference between declining and having a bad year…

IMO, his YTD numbers are impacted by his slow start, and he always starts slow.  Between that, and playing in SF, I don't think he is far off his usual numbers.

[moonslav59]

11 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

Interesting that you mentioned luck twice, but glad to see you praise Durbin as Devers replacement.

Including Durbin in evaluating the Devers trade is legit, since Harrison was the major piece bring Durbin to BOS.

Now, we need to talk Monasterio & Seagler, too. We also got Ziehl for Hicks (and Sandlin.) Count Tibbs (and Erhard) for Dustin May, if you wish, too. I won't.

In a way, we can combine several trades into this:

Devers, Drohan, Sandlin & DHam

for

Durbin, Monasterio, Seagler, Ziehl and a ton of salary relief, which we all knows will affect future JH spending allotments.

[moonslav59]

8 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

IMO, his YTD numbers are impacted by his slow start, and he always starts slow.  Between that, and playing in SF, I don't think he is far off his usual numbers.

True, but OPS+ adjusts for home and away fields.

[bobo52]

 

Quote

No, the Sox still have a major void at DH--even now with Yoshida on the shelf...yes lucked out in another trade with Milwaukee to get 3 Sox contributors, 2 starters...but in a million years that was still a bad trade to me. Devers 81 games at Fenway means more home runs (they need power,  they have basically won due to power with Abreu and Contreras and Durbin big bombs of course), more doubles. Fenway adds to Devers stats to me.  The Sox have a struggling All-Star catcher now and lucked on the Contreras addition. I'd take Devers back in a milisecond.

  If you have Devers - you have to pay him $29 million a year until he is 37.  There is no money for Contreras this year and you dont get Durbin and Monasterio.  Nobody at this point would trade Durbin for Devers - never mind taking on  $29 million a year until he is 37.  Durbin is getting paid $800K this year.  This trade was a home run and offloading the Devers contract is one of the best parts.  Good point by the commenter saying we had to eat the Hicks contract but obviously chump change compared to the Devers liability.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, bobo52 said:

  If you have Devers - you have to pay him $29 million a year until he is 37.  There is no money for Contreras this year and you dont get Durbin and Monasterio.  Nobody at this point would trade Durbin for Devers - never mind taking on  $29 million a year until he is 37.  Durbin is getting paid $800K this year.  This trade was a home run and offloading the Devers contract is one of the best parts.  Good point by the commenter saying we had to eat the Hicks contract but obviously chump change compared to the Devers liability.

The Devers money is more like no Suarez or Gray, and then no major signing, when their time is up, too.

You could say Suarez & Gray, as Suarez is paid $7M this year and Gray $21M. Gray's deal drops away after 2026, leaving Suarez to make up for the Devers money for a few more years. Then, more money to spend after his deal is up and Devers still has a few years of top pay left.

Durbin, Suarez, Gray, Monasterio & Seigler and a future signing (+Ziehl) for Devers, Drohan and DHam)

[notin]

6 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Including Durbin in evaluating the Devers trade is legit, since Harrison was the major piece bring Durbin to BOS.

Now, we need to talk Monasterio & Seagler, too. We also got Ziehl for Hicks (and Sandlin.) Count Tibbs (and Erhard) for Dustin May, if you wish, too. I won't.

In a way, we can combine several trades into this:

Devers, Drohan, Sandlin & DHam

for

Durbin, Monasterio, Seagler, Ziehl and a ton of salary relief, which we all knows will affect future JH spending allotments.

If you say Devers money went to Contreras - a point made by the OP that could be easily contended but for now, let’s roll with it - than the Sox traded Devers for their entire infield during that 32-5 run...

[moonslav59]

42 minutes ago, notin said:

If you say Devers money went to Contreras - a point made by the OP that could be easily contended but for now, let’s roll with it - than the Sox traded Devers for their entire infield during that 32-5 run...

Stunning.

[a700hitter]

He is on quite a heater right now.

[jad]

Yeah, 40 homers and 100 RBI on an off-year.  And don't forget the 'bad team-mate' mantra, affirmed by the front office but by no player on the team.

[notin]

1 hour ago, jad said:

Yeah, 40 homers and 100 RBI on an off-year.  And don't forget the 'bad team-mate' mantra, affirmed by the front office but by no player on the team.

Do we need a teammate to confirm this?  I saw him all but use those words himself in a televised interview. 
 

Also the Sox were 37-36 when they dealt him and are 133-105 (.558) since trading him.  Meanwhile SF was 41-30 when they acquired him and is 102-138 (.425) .since.  There might be something to it …

[moonslav59]

I think Devers has the exact same OPS+ with SFG than he did with BOS from 2021 to the trade. (137)

We could sure use that, but I'm glad we moved him off 3B. If that ended up causing the trade, so be it. 

It was the right move to make. It had been needed for years. 1B/DH, either one would have been fine, had he accepted it. He didn't. He's gone.

We got Harrison and some scraps for him, but the plus Brez was eying was the removal of a malcontent and some precious budget space he had lacked since his arrival. Those two reasons are hard to quantify, but they are both for real.

The additions of Contreras, Mead and AR might all be partially or fully inspired by the loss of Devers. Some contracts would not have been added, if Devers was still on the roster. Those are aspects that should be considered when grading the trade.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

28 minutes ago, notin said:

Do we need a teammate to confirm this?  I saw him all but use those words himself in a televised interview. 
 

Also the Sox were 37-36 when they dealt him and are 133-105 (.558) since trading him.  Meanwhile SF was 41-30 when they acquired him and is 102-138 (.425) .since.  There might be something to it …

I always viewed baseball as the least-important of team sports when it came to being a "good teammate." And it's my favorite to play and to watch, and to blab about.

But baseball is the most unique of "team" sports, since it's the sum deeds of isolated individuals. Of course, it's more fun and easier playing with and rooting for a bunch of guys you like who like you, instead of dealing with a selfish malcontent sitting by himself ragging on the universe instead of blaming world hunger where it really belongs -- on the ump or opposing pitcher.

Great point about trading Devers for basically this summer's entire starting infield. I learned today there's one more guy to add to the haul: that extra draft pick Breslow got from Milwaukee turned into Owen Hull from North Carolina -- coming soon to a prospect hype near you!

 

[moonslav59]

57 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I always viewed baseball as the least-important of team sports when it came to being a "good teammate." And it's my favorite to play and to watch, and to blab about.

But baseball is the most unique of "team" sports, since it's the sum deeds of isolated individuals. Of course, it's more fun and easier playing with and rooting for a bunch of guys you like who like you, instead of dealing with a selfish malcontent sitting by himself ragging on the universe instead of blaming world hunger where it really belongs -- on the ump or opposing pitcher.

Great point about trading Devers for basically this summer's entire starting infield. I learned today there's one more guy to add to the haul: that extra draft pick Breslow got from Milwaukee turned into Owen Hull from North Carolina -- coming soon to a prospect hype near you!

The "entire starting infield" seems like hyperbole, but it's actually sorta true.

The money saved helped us pay for Contreras and IKF, The Harrison trade brought us FT'er Durbin at 3B, our innings leader at SS and 2B in Monasterio and Seigler!

Infield innings leaders:

1197 Durbin (all at 3B)

1033 Contreras (all at 1B)

619 Monasterio (459 at SS, 92 at 2B, 51 at 1B, 17 at 3B)

520 Mayer (341 at 2B and 179 at SS) TRADED

469 IKF (229 at 2B, 91 at SS, 46 at 3B, 3 at 1B)

448 Story (all at SS)

400 Sogard (260 at 2B, 107 at 1B, 33 at  SS)

360 Seigler (354 at 2B and 6 at 3B)

116 Cheng (116 at SS)

86 Gasper (all at 1B)

81 Romy (44 at 2B and 37 at 1B)

9 Harris (all at 1B)

4 Mead (all at 2B)

[moonslav59]

The OF has been rather stable, but may have looked much different if Anthony stayed off the IL.

1260 Abreu

1159 Rafaela

1117 Duran

178 Anthony

125 White

83 Eaton

46 Yoshida

10 Jones

The Catching position by innings

543 Wong

492 Narvaez TRADED

159 AR

110 Gasper

22 Rogers

 

The DH position saw Yosida play nearly 3 times the games as the next player, but 12 different players have a GS at DH and 17 players have played at DH during a game or more...

GS

62 Yoshida

24 Gasper

21 Anthony

10 Monasterio

8 Romy

7 Jones & Duran

3 Abreu & Wong

2 Story

1 Contreras & AR

[Nick]

17 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

The "entire starting infield" seems like hyperbole, but it's actually sorta true.

The money saved helped us pay for Contreras and IKF, The Harrison trade brought us FT'er Durbin at 3B, our innings leader at SS and 2B in Monasterio and Seigler!

Infield innings leaders:

1197 Durbin (all at 3B)

1033 Contreras (all at 1B)

619 Monasterio (459 at SS, 92 at 2B, 51 at 1B, 17 at 3B)

520 Mayer (341 at 2B and 179 at SS) TRADED

469 IKF (229 at 2B, 91 at SS, 46 at 3B, 3 at 1B)

448 Story (all at SS)

400 Sogard (260 at 2B, 107 at 1B, 33 at  SS)

360 Seigler (354 at 2B and 6 at 3B)

116 Cheng (116 at SS)

86 Gasper (all at 1B)

81 Romy (44 at 2B and 37 at 1B)

9 Harris (all at 1B)

4 Mead (all at 2B)

We don't miss Devers when you consider the additions afforded to the Sox as his contract disappeared. That's all I need to know.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

4 minutes ago, Nick said:

We don't miss Devers when you consider the additions afforded to the Sox as his contract disappeared. That's all I need to know.

"the additions afforded to the Sox as his contract disappeared."

My stance all along is that this was main point of dumping Raffy. His public obstinance only lent convenience to a mega transition of the roster and budget.

[a700hitter]

I always loved watching him hit.  Thats not true of the rest of the Red Sox lineup.  I think they should have found a way to keep a bat like that.  Idgaf if he is a prima dona.  The guy is 29 in his prime with a career OPS of .856.  Bats like his are rare.  You keep them.

[Nick]

This now looks like Breslow's team.

Cora is gone.

Trevor and Yoshida will be gone after 2027 season.

Really no other big contracts lingering from 2023 and prior seasons.

Holdovers include Whitlock, Houck, Kutter, Rafaela, Duran, Wong, Casas and probably few others I'm missing.......

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I guess when it gets down to the nitty gritty, It was Casas' fault that Devers was traded 

I don't miss him. 

However, I did get a kick out of Devers lack of self-awareness. Devers appeared to be the only person in baseball who didn't realize he was the worst defensive 3rd baseman in MLB. He actually believed Bragman, perhaps the best defensive 3rd baseman in MLB, was gonna play 2nd base.

Devers will always be his own worst enemy.

[moonslav59]

51 minutes ago, Nick said:

This now looks like Breslow's team.

Cora is gone.

Trevor and Yoshida will be gone after 2027 season.

Really no other big contracts lingering from 2023 and prior seasons.

Holdovers include Whitlock, Houck, Kutter, Rafaela, Duran, Wong, Casas and probably few others I'm missing.......

The roster turnover under Breslow is nothing short of stunning. The amount of holdovers is almost equal to the amount of players Brez both acquired and traded away... like Priester, Harrison, Hicks, Sandlin & others plus drafted players traded away.

The remaining holdovers from the Bloom era are:

Whitlock, Houck, Crawford, Bello & Kelly

Abreu, Rafaela, Duran, Story, Yoshida, Wong & Casas

Anthony, Campbell & Paez were added to the 40 but are from the Bloom era.

That's only 15 players on the 40 with Casas, Kelly & Wong as dubious returnees. Paez is a bubble roster player. Duran, Yosida and Story have 1-2 years of control and could be traded, if the money can be balanced somehow.

Only Abreu, Rafaela, Anthony & Whitlock look like key players for 2027 and beyond.

Some top farm prospects are Bloom's:

1. Arias

4. Valera

10. Cespedes

13. Weunt

16. Paez (reacquired) 

18. Bastardo

22. Romero, 23. Mullins, 24 Monero, 26 Rod