Red Sox front office did something right. They got rid of Devers.

[Old Red]

14 minutes ago, notin said:

Our thoughts on it are immaterial.  Cora does not consult me on this stuff, and I have a feeling that you’re not in his contacts list either. 
 

I wasn’t subtle about my feelings that he felt Devers was incapable of playing 1b. Has Cora ever refused to move a player’s position for this reason?  And he’s made lots of weird moves, some of which were short term necessities, and some that he let needlessly linger.  And we all do know from watching Kike at SS, Cora doesn’t always let horrific defensive play remove you from your position.
 

Devers probably has a fragile ego, and I question use of the word “probably” there.  He was probably insulted and frustrated, and felt it was handled poorly.  Agreed.  But also, he is an adult, and is paid quite well in a non-decision-making role.  Whether or not is the right decision from a baseball standpoint is not his call.

If the attitude is all praise and blame falls on upper management (I.e. Breslow), certainly understandable. The buck stops here, and Breslow is far from blameless.  

But i can’t excuse Devers for handling it in a manner so petulant.

My question isn’t about the communication issue, which should be reparable among mature adults.  But rather how did it get down to a trade?  Did Devers demand one? Or did Breslow simply decide he was through with Devers and make that call himself?

 

Without knowing what Cora thought about the whole situation, and not only what he actually did say to Raffy, and what Cora said to bresLOW, and even JH would be a good thing to know, and most likely would provide more answers.

[Hugh2]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

So you think Coras job is to relay breslows decisions to the players?  Im not so sure that Cora saw it that way.  Im sure Breslow the dictator does.  When Breslow asked to fire Cora, Im surprised they let him.

 That's absolutely 100% part of the job.  If a player is being moved in the lineup, moved to the bullpen, or switching positions that should be 100% on the manager. 

If your schedule at McDonalds changes, I expect the manager to come talk to you....not the CEO of McDonalds. 

 

[Hugh2]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

Without knowing what Cora thought about the whole situation, and not only what he actually did say to Raffy, and what Cora said to bresLOW, and even JH would be a good thing to know, and most likely would provide more answers.

King of Talksox, I agree with you here.  Some stuff may come out some day but I think were never really going to know.  Whatever.....it will give us something to talk about on slow days and offseasons of the future. 

[drewski6]

35 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

 That's absolutely 100% part of the job.  If a player is being moved in the lineup, moved to the bullpen, or switching positions that should be 100% on the manager. 

If your schedule at McDonalds changes, I expect the manager to come talk to you....not the CEO of McDonalds. 

 

so just have the mcdonalds manager do coras job then, right? cuz hes just a message relayer?

Thats absurd.  

[Behindenemylines]

The way it is playing out it looks like a good salary dump. He was eventually going to be a fulltime DH with that contract. But wasn't the money saved supposed to be reinvested in the 2026 team?

[mvp 78]

11 minutes ago, Behindenemylines said:

The way it is playing out it looks like a good salary dump. He was eventually going to be a fulltime DH with that contract. But wasn't the money saved supposed to be reinvested in the 2026 team?

It was! Salary line went up this year! 

[Hugh2]

22 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

so just have the mcdonalds manager do coras job then, right? cuz hes just a message relayer?

Thats absurd.  

The McDonald’s manager is Cora in this analogy 

[drewski6]

8 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

The McDonald’s manager is Cora in this analogy 

you dont find that condescending because to me the fact that you are comparing cora to a mcdonalds manager, at all, feels off.

And no, I dont think coras job is to be a go-between between breslow and the players, and i think cora and breslow disagreed on that and thats why cora is no longer here. Cuz breslow only wants yes man cuz hes a dicktator.

[Hugh2]

3 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

you dont find that condescending because to me the fact that you are comparing cora to a mcdonalds manager, at all, feels off.

And no, I dont think coras job is to be a go-between between breslow and the players, and i think cora and breslow disagreed on that and thats why cora is no longer here. Cuz breslow only wants yes man cuz hes a dicktator.

Dude, I totally didn’t mean that to be condescending at all I was making analogy.  
 

love or hate Breslow, he’s Cora’s boss.  That level of conflict would inevitably lead to someone being fired (Cora or Breslow in Boston) in any organization.  
 

agree with Breslow or not, I think any organization, in sports or any business wants their people on the same page.  I mean, you absolutely want fresh ideals, constructive criticism but you can’t have subordinates defying your decisions.  It creates a toxic workplace environment.
 

people get fired for insubordination every day.

[drewski6]

6 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Dude, I totally didn’t mean that to be condescending at all I was making analogy.  
 

love or hate Breslow, he’s Cora’s boss.  That level of conflict would inevitably lead to someone being fired (Cora or Breslow in Boston) in any organization.  
 

agree with Breslow or not, I think any organization, in sports or any business wants their people on the same page.  I mean, you absolutely want fresh ideals, constructive criticism but you can’t have subordinates defying your decisions.  It creates a toxic workplace environment.
 

people get fired for insubordination every day.

Ive had 20 people report to me in my career. Not one of their jobs has ever been "to take what I say and run"

Of course you want Cora and Breslow on the same page. They werent at first, then it seemed like they were, then it broke up again.  

Of course if Breslow is dead set on something, nad Cora goes against it, thats risky as Breslow is technically his boss.  Its possible that Cora overplayed his hand and thought he could survive Breslow, but Breslow sought and received approval to fire Cora.

Regardless the job of an MLB manager is not priimarily to take the words of the CBO and relay it to the team. If so, you would have a parrot or a tape-recorder doing that job.  Cora was a respected mlb manager and already turned down a job.  And it wasnt because he was so good at taking what people above him said and repeated it.  You are reducing him.  And yes, "Mcdonalds manager" is the go to for condescending analogies.  "woudl you like fries with that?" was like the go to insult of the 90s for people who couldnt secure good jobs.

[drewski6]

19 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Dude, I totally didn’t mean that to be condescending at all I was making analogy.  
 

love or hate Breslow, he’s Cora’s boss.  That level of conflict would inevitably lead to someone being fired (Cora or Breslow in Boston) in any organization.  
 

agree with Breslow or not, I think any organization, in sports or any business wants their people on the same page.  I mean, you absolutely want fresh ideals, constructive criticism but you can’t have subordinates defying your decisions.  It creates a toxic workplace environment.
 

people get fired for insubordination every day.

If you are screaming insubordination, what that translates to is "Im a bad leader".  Ive never struggled to get my employees on my page.  A lot of that is mutual respect.  Ive seen plenty of managers yell and scream about insubordination.  They are usually having to scream about their title and rank and what they say goes.  Ive seen Breslow do this. These are never quality people.  YOU WILL DO WHAT I SAYYYYYYY is what happens when non leaders wind up in leadership roles, and they lose their top talent.

[notin]

2 hours ago, Old Red said:

Without knowing what Cora thought about the whole situation, and not only what he actually did say to Raffy, and what Cora said to bresLOW, and even JH would be a good thing to know, and most likely would provide more answers.

Yes, having all the answers would give us more answers…

[mvp 78]

41 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

The McDonald’s manager is Cora in this analogy 

Analogies are tough for some people. 

[notin]

55 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

you dont find that condescending because to me the fact that you are comparing cora to a mcdonalds manager, at all, feels off.

And no, I dont think coras job is to be a go-between between breslow and the players, and i think cora and breslow disagreed on that and thats why cora is no longer here. Cuz breslow only wants yes man cuz hes a dicktator.

Dictator or not, isn’t it important the CBO and the manager are in the same page?  And if they’re not and both are stubborn, Whats the expected outcome?

 

Funny story - the late Phillip Seymour Hoffman portrayed Art Howe as a disgruntled manager in constant disagreement with his boss, Billy Beane (played by Brad Pitt).  And despite the friction-filled relationship in the movie between Howe and Beane being largely fictional, after that Moneyball aired, Art Howe never worked in MLB again…

[drewski6]

Just now, notin said:

Dictator or not, isn’t it important the CBO and the manager are in the same page?  And if they’re not and botj are stubborn, Whats the expected outcome?

Ive never seen a good manager or leader cry insubordination.  If you go to HR and want to make a case about insubordination, they will have questions.  In most cases, yes, its the higher ranking person who is the problem.  If a leader cant get his team to align with him, its usually the leaders problem. OF course, not always.  But usually.

Ive seen people stomp their feet and pound their chest and yell about their title.  Ive seen Breslow do this.  Its bad leadership.  If Breslow expects that what he says goes, that is a problem.  Even if he has the authority to make the final call.  Also, Ive seen Breslow botch the communication/leadership multiple times....And if Cora was insubordinate, this is just further evidence that Breslow is in over his head as a leader.  And he is. So very very clearly.

Sometimes, the smartest people in the room make for hte worst leaders.

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Ive never seen a good manager or leader cry insubordination.  If you go to HR and want to make a case about insubordination, they will have questions.  In most cases, yes, its the higher ranking person who is the problem.  If a leader cant get his team to align with him, its usually the leaders problem. OF course, not always.  But usually.
 

In this situation, Cora IS a high ranking manager. He's not some low level guy. He was the problem. 

[Old Red]

6 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

In this situation, Cora IS a high ranking manager. He's not some low level guy. He was the problem. 

But who’s the reason?🤔

[drewski6]

12 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

In this situation, Cora IS a high ranking manager. He's not some low level guy. He was the problem. 

Breslow seems to be at the center of a lot of leadership issues.  Even Theo said it.

[drewski6]

Breslow went to Devers directly and made a bad situation worse, like he always does.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

LOL at all the fans who were spiking the football as Raffy struggled early in the summer.  He often starts slowly I thought to myself, this was no big deal.  Now he is doing Raffy Devers things and has been doing it for 2 months and nobody should be surprised. 

I don't want to get into the trade again, I'll just point out that he is the big bat that fans are screaming for, the big bat this lineup desperately needs.  And now he plays for someone else. And we got back little. Again. But at least JH is saving money which is great.  For him.  

I'll never get over this trade.  Teams work it out with an unhappy player all the time.  

[drewski6]

Devers was never a bad contract.

[Duran Is The Man]

7 hours ago, Hugh2 said:

He's literally the manager.  If they were asking him to play first base he was the one who asked him.  Thats like.....obvious.  I'm not sure what your work experience is, maybe you're used to managers who cower in fear and don't have the conversations that upper management asked them to make but I don't think Cora is that guy, I don't think you think he's that guy either.  Whether or not he agreed with it is something entirely different. 

It does appear there was a communications break down.  But no one ever told Devers he was moving full time to DH, and those words came DIRECTLY out of Coras mouth.  He recently gave an interview in spanish.  Heres some of it: 

Alex Cora Breaks Silence on Rafael Devers Departure: ‘We Failed on Communication’ Former Red Sox manager Alex Cora addressed the departure of Rafael Devers, admitting the organization could have handled the situation much better. “It’s one of those situations where, as a group, we could’ve done a much better job communicating,” Cora said. “We should’ve sat him down and laid it out clearly: This is the situation, these are the directions we’re exploring. We don’t see you as our third baseman of the future. That’s it.” Cora emphasized that no one told Devers to throw his glove away, calling that part “********.” However, he acknowledged that everything changed after the team signed Alex Bregman and Triston Casas got hurt. “Looking back, I know we should’ve been upfront with him from the start of the offseason,” Cora continued. “We needed to have those real conversations. Those talks never happened.”

another reason i'm glad Cora was fired. if he, as the effing manager can't see that Devers was a s***** third-baseman and, even if he did, he should have had that "conversation". good gawd....it's his f***ing job. just unreal he never "sat him down and laid it out...".

[notin]

3 hours ago, Duran Is The Man said:

another reason i'm glad Cora was fired. if he, as the effing manager can't see that Devers was a s***** third-baseman and, even if he did, he should have had that "conversation". good gawd....it's his f***ing job. just unreal he never "sat him down and laid it out...".

ICora was always the players’ manager.  Even Dombrowski had to tell him to stop getting ejected every time one of his players riled up thr umpire.

i agree he should have told Devers, but I do believe Cora never made a decision based on defense ever, unless it involved Rafaela…