Sox Trade For Milwaukee 3B Caleb Durbin

[moonslav59]

18 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

It's a bit of a moot point.  If Harrison starts for Mil, and does well, I don't care.  He would be unlikely to have gotten the same opportunity with us to prove himself..

Knowing the way season's go, if he was doing well for us, he'd have gotten a chance to start, but I still agree. it doesn't matter if he does well, as long as Durbin works out for us.

[moonslav59]

20 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

As someone else suggested, I think I'd prefer to see Story at 2nd, Mayer at SS, and Durbin at 3rd.

Try talking Cora into that one.

[Old Red]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Try talking Cora into that one.

You guys are always trying to talk Cora into doing something you would do. Bogey to 2B. Raffy to 1B. Casas to DH. Story to 2B. In Mayer’s case I don’t think Cora thinks Mayer is ready, or proven enough at this point to be the FT shortstop.

[moonslav59]

16 minutes ago, Old Red said:

You guys are always trying to talk Cora into doing something you would do. Bogey to 2B. Raffy to 1B. Casas to DH. Story to 2B. In Mayer’s case I don’t think Cora thinks Mayer is ready, or proven enough at this point to be the FT shortstop.

You have no problem criticizing Brez, Cora and JH, so obviously you'd do things differently, too. You just dont give specicifs. That way you can come back later and say.. "See...."

[moonslav59]

20 minutes ago, Old Red said:

You guys are always trying to talk Cora into doing something you would do. Bogey to 2B. Raffy to 1B. Casas to DH. Story to 2B. In Mayer’s case I don’t think Cora thinks Mayer is ready, or proven enough at this point to be the FT shortstop.

Mayer has played more SS than any other position in his life. How is he "more ready" to play 3B or 2B?

Story is in decline on defense.

It's not an easy call to make, but we have our opinions. They have merit. 

Cora's opinion and reasons have merit, too.

Now, cue your "world is black and white" reality and say how I keep disagreeing with Cora but he can still be right" retort.

The world is one big grey place.

[Old Red]

7 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Mayer has played more SS than any other position in his life. How is he "more ready" to play 3B or 2B?

Story is in decline on defense.

It's not an easy call to make, but we have our opinions. They have merit. 

Cora's opinion and reasons have merit, too.

Now, cue your "world is black and white" reality and say how I keep disagreeing with Cora but he can still be right" retort.

The world is one big grey place.

Where does anyone say Mayer’s is more ready to play 2B/3B?? Where did Mayer play last year when he came up? SS, 2B, or 3B? That’s an easy one. He played where there was an opening. Same thing with Roman. He played where there was an opening. Not that complicated at all. Now if you have a problem with that then you have a problem with Cora. Story is the incumbent SS, and that’s where Cora says Story will play in 2026. If you’ve got a problem with that you have a problem with Cora. With all indications this year point to Mayer either playing 3B, or 2B. Why, because that’s where there is an opening. If you’ve got a have a problem with that you have a problem with Cora. Mayer certainly hasn’t proven he can stay on the field, and be an everyday player. I can’t believe Cora doesn’t implement any of your suggestions. Wow what kind of bad manager is he?🤭

[Hugh2]

9 hours ago, Old Red said:

If Durbin out performs Bregman, or Con Man out performs Alonso, and yes even if Raffy’s stats fall off a cliff.

I still think that's a weird way of looking at things.  What if the "Con man" doesn't outperform Alonso but it's close, he plays above average defense, hits for average with 20 bombs.  Meanwhile Alonso hits 40 HR's and that's it, but the Red Sox spent half the AAV on Contreras and also went out and got a #2 and improved their bench?

I'm not trying to say that the Alonso is better than Contreras, but if the team is better as a whole and they win 95 games are we really going to sit here and criticize the team because Pete Alonso hit 40 HR's in Baltimore?

[Hugh2]

My only concern with Durbin is his arm isn't very strong and he's coming off of right elbow surgery, for such a small guy you wonder if 2B is a better fit long term.

Then again, the surgery was very minor and his arm speed isn't slower than Mayers or Storys.   So Maybe 3B is where he belongs. 

I hate to say it, I really do, I'm sure this will rub some people the wrong way and will say I'm saying it just because he's short, but in many ways he does resemble a young Jose Altuve.  

Altuve was a little guy, with very little bat speed and lower average exit velocities.  But it just didn't seem to matter because he had good plate discipline, does not strike out, and squares up the baseball.  

Durbin could afford to walk a little bit more, but that's pretty much his exact profile. 

[notin]

30 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Where does anyone say Mayer’s is more ready to play 2B/3B?? Where did Mayer play last year when he came up? SS, 2B, or 3B? That’s an easy one. He played where there was an opening. Same thing with Roman. He played where there was an opening. Not that complicated at all. Now if you have a problem with that then you have a problem with Cora. Story is the incumbent SS, and that’s where Cora say Story will play in 2026. If you’ve got a problem with that you have a problem with Cora. With all indications this year point to Mayer either playing 3B, or 2B. Why, because that’s where there is an opening. If you’ve got a have a problem with that you have a problem with Cora. I can’t believe Cora doesn’t implement any of your suggestions. Wow what kind of bad manager is he?🤭

So bad he needs you to speak for him?

Not playing Mayer at SS doesn’t mean he doesn’t think Mayer is ready or has any thoughts about whether or not Mayer can handle it, just like not speaking to Devers about playing first didn’t mean Cora did not think Devers could handle 1b.

Usually when one of us suggests moving a player, it’s supported by bad defense.  And rarely anything else.  Devers was a really bad defensive 3b after all.  Sort of a laughable theory that Cora wouldn’t move Devers to 1b because he didn’t think Devers could handle first base when it was already blatantly obvious Devers couldn’t handle third base.

Story’s defense is definitely not what it once was, which is not surprising as he ages.  Devers sucked at 3b. Casas sucks at 1b. Bogaerts had no range at SS.  These are not opinions.  They are facts that Cora chose to back burner, probably for reasons related to keeping players happy…

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

My only concern with Durbin is his arm isn't very strong and he's coming off of right elbow surgery, for such a small guy you wonder if 2B is a better fit long term.

Then again, the surgery was very minor and his arm speed isn't slower than Mayers or Storys.   So Maybe 3B is where he belongs. 

I hate to say it, I really do, I'm sure this will rub some people the wrong way and will say I'm saying it just because he's short, but in many ways he does resemble a young Jose Altuve.  

Altuve was a little guy, with very little bat speed and lower average exit velocities.  But it just didn't seem to matter because he had good plate discipline, does not strike out, and squares up the baseball.  

Durbin could afford to walk a little bit more, but that's pretty much his exact profile. 

Altuve has had 60 fWAR over his career. If the Sox got half that out of Durbin, we'd be happy. 

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, notin said:

So bad he needs you to speak for him?

Not playing Mayer at SS doesn’t mean he doesn’t think Mayer is ready or has any thoughts about whether or not Mayer can handle it, just like not speaking to Devers about playing first didn’t mean Cora did not think Devers could handle 1b.

Usually when one of us suggests moving a player, it’s supported by bad defense.  And rarely anything else.  Devers was a really bad defensive 3b after all.  Sort of a laughable theory that Cora wouldn’t move Devers to 1b because he didn’t think Devers could handle first base when it was already blatantly obvious Devers couldn’t handle third base.

Story’s defense is definitely not what it once was, which is not surprising as he ages.  Devers sucked at 3b. Casas sucks at 1b. Bogaerts had no range at SS.  These are not opinions.  They are facts that Cora chose to back burner, probably for reasons related to keeping players happy…

If Durbin's arm is healthy, the best defense would be: 

Story 2b

Mayer SS

Durbin 3b

I don't think we're going to get that though. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

8 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Altuve has had 60 fWAR over his career. If the Sox got half that out of Durbin, we'd be happy. 

Altuve has a better chance to make the Hall of Fame than Pedroia. Altuve won three batting crowns by the age of 27 and has averaged 21 homers per 162-games over 15 seasons. Lifetime BA of .303 in the majors, .322 in the minors.

Durbin hit .256 in his MLB rookie year, after .269 in his minor league career.

Durbin isn't a star, but a good player with tools that should help the offense and defense... hopefully, more than the expendable parts the Red Sox gave up trading for him. 

[Old Red]

23 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

If Durbin's arm is healthy, the best defense would be: 

Story 2b

Mayer SS

Durbin 3b

I don't think we're going to get that though. 

Durbin 2B

Story SS

Mayer 3B

if this is the opening day lineup what does that say to you?

[notin]

26 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Altuve has had 60 fWAR over his career. If the Sox got half that out of Durbin, we'd be happy. 

If the Sox get 30 fWAR out of Durbin in the 5 years before he hits free agency, you folks better damn well be “happy”.   And by “happy” I mean building altars to Breslow and naming all your children Craig, including both your twin daughters.

But if the Sox get 10-15 fWAR out of Durbin in the next 5 years, the trade was still good…

 

 

[mvp 78]

18 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Durbin 2B

Story SS

Mayer 3B

if this is the opening day lineup what does that say to you?

Mayer is more comfy at 3b than 2b. Durbin came up through MiLB as a 2b. Cora doesn't want to ruffle Story's feathers. 

[Old Red]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

My only concern with Durbin is his arm isn't very strong and he's coming off of right elbow surgery, for such a small guy you wonder if 2B is a better fit long term.

Then again, the surgery was very minor and his arm speed isn't slower than Mayers or Storys.   So Maybe 3B is where he belongs. 

I hate to say it, I really do, I'm sure this will rub some people the wrong way and will say I'm saying it just because he's short, but in many ways he does resemble a young Jose Altuve.  

Altuve was a little guy, with very little bat speed and lower average exit velocities.  But it just didn't seem to matter because he had good plate discipline, does not strike out, and squares up the baseball.  

Durbin could afford to walk a little bit more, but that's pretty much his exact profile. 

Durbin may turn out alright, but as McAdams said getting Durbin wasn’t a HR swing, but a double in the gap. Seems the Red Sox took several swings at Zach Neto, but struck out.

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Mayer is more comfy at 3b than 2b. Durbin came up through MiLB as a 2b. Cora doesn't want to ruffle Story's feathers. 

So in other words once again Cora isn’t putting his best lineup in the field, because he doesn’t want to ruffle feathers like with Bogey, Raffy, and now Story.🤔

[mvp 78]

17 minutes ago, notin said:

If the Sox get 30 fWAR out of Durbin in the 5 years before he hits free agency, you folks better damn well be “happy”.   And by “happy” I mean building altars to Breslow and naming all your children Craig, including both your twin daughters.

But if the Sox get 10-15 fWAR out of Durbin in the next 5 years, the trade was still good…

Altars? Let's get a few WS first. 

I was thinking Craig extends Durbin at some point because everyone gets one. 

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, Old Red said:

Where does anyone say Mayer’s is more ready to play 2B/3B?? 

2 hours ago, Old Red said:

Where does anyone say Mayer’s is more ready to play 2B/3B?? 

 

While I did put my statement in quotations, I did not say anyone said it. I put it in quotations to emphasize the point about what position Mayer is likely most "ready to play."

This was in response to this...

I don’t think Cora thinks Mayer is ready, or proven enough at this point to be the FT shortstop.

Maybe Cora is not ready to make him FT anything, yet. I get that. I've actually suggested he might be platooned with Romy at 2B.

To me, SS is Mayer's natural and most played position. That alone is not enough to move Story to 2B. If he's not better than Story, then of course don't make the move.

I happen to think Story's defense has slipped enough to think about moving him.

BTW, all I said is good luck "trying to talk to  Cora about it," as part of my long-standing position on Cora that we have often debated. I didn't even say I was 100% for the idea.

It seems funny how you criticize Cora and others often, but when I do, and it's not about something you agree with you say things like... "You guys are always..." Like you are not?

BTW, I have never even pretended to try and talk Cora into anything. I go out of my way to say he knows way more than me, and even if I disagree with him, I may not call him wrong. This is something you have never understood. But, it goes totally against the notion that I am trying to convince Cora to change his mind. I give my opinion, and sometimes it's not Cora's. I still think he is a great manager.

[mvp 78]

5 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Durbin may turn out alright, but as McAdams said getting Durbin wasn’t a HR swing, but a double in the gap. Seems the Red Sox took several swings at Zach Neto, but struck out.

That's fine because Neto has no problem striking out either. 

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, Old Red said:

So in other words once again Cora isn’t putting his best lineup in the field, because he doesn’t want to ruffle feathers like with Bogey, Raffy, and now Story.🤔

Talking to your players is hard! 

[mvp 78]

MLB Daddy Ball. 

[Hitch]

51 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

If Durbin's arm is healthy, the best defense would be: 

Story 2b

Mayer SS

Durbin 3b

I don't think we're going to get that though. 

Only if Mayer plays full time, though. If he's being platooned - as I suspect - Story at SS.

[Hugh2]

58 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Altuve has had 60 fWAR over his career. If the Sox got half that out of Durbin, we'd be happy. 

Yup

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, notin said:

So bad he needs you to speak for him?

Not playing Mayer at SS doesn’t mean he doesn’t think Mayer is ready or has any thoughts about whether or not Mayer can handle it, just like not speaking to Devers about playing first didn’t mean Cora did not think Devers could handle 1b.

Usually when one of us suggests moving a player, it’s supported by bad defense.  And rarely anything else.  Devers was a really bad defensive 3b after all.  Sort of a laughable theory that Cora wouldn’t move Devers to 1b because he didn’t think Devers could handle first base when it was already blatantly obvious Devers couldn’t handle third base.

Story’s defense is definitely not what it once was, which is not surprising as he ages.  Devers sucked at 3b. Casas sucks at 1b. Bogaerts had no range at SS.  These are not opinions.  They are facts that Cora chose to back burner, probably for reasons related to keeping players happy…

Well said. Story's defense is not even close to the horrendous level Devers as at 3B. I'm okay with Story at SS, at least for one more year- see how he looks.

When we had Bogey, we really didn't have many other SS options until we signed Story.

Now, Cora has oddles of options on defense, including a couple GG winners, although Rodgers is not on the 40, yet. I doubt he uses any at SS, unless Story is resting or hurt. IMO, I think he likes to show his loyalty to his players by keeping them at positions they know and like. That is not necessarily a bad thing, unless the defense sucks or there is clearly a better choice, but even then, how valuable is it having the respect of your players? It's not an easy call to make.

[Hugh2]

12 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Durbin may turn out alright, but as McAdams said getting Durbin wasn’t a HR swing, but a double in the gap. Seems the Red Sox took several swings at Zach Neto, but struck out.

Allegedly the asking price was too high......I'd be interested in knowing what "too high" was. 

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, Hugh2 said:

My only concern with Durbin is his arm isn't very strong and he's coming off of right elbow surgery, for such a small guy you wonder if 2B is a better fit long term.

Then again, the surgery was very minor and his arm speed isn't slower than Mayers or Storys.   So Maybe 3B is where he belongs. 

I hate to say it, I really do, I'm sure this will rub some people the wrong way and will say I'm saying it just because he's short, but in many ways he does resemble a young Jose Altuve.  

Altuve was a little guy, with very little bat speed and lower average exit velocities.  But it just didn't seem to matter because he had good plate discipline, does not strike out, and squares up the baseball.  

Durbin could afford to walk a little bit more, but that's pretty much his exact profile. 

Good points. I wasn't aware of the elbow surgery. (Another example of how Cora & others know more than I do.) Perhaps Durbin starts at 2B and Mayer at 3B. I'm a fan of productive platoons, but I don't want to see this, assuming Romy is healthy:

v R Mayer at 3B and Durbin at 2B

v L Durbin at 3B and Romy at 2B

Keep Durbin at one slot seems better, unless we feel Mayer is the better 3Bman and Durbin would be better at 2B.

[moonslav59]

16 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Mayer is more comfy at 3b than 2b. Durbin came up through MiLB as a 2b. Cora doesn't want to ruffle Story's feathers. 

That's how I see it, and I'm not sure I'm all in for a radical realignment, at this point. It looks good on paper, but the game is played on the field and in the minds of the players.

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Allegedly the asking price was too high......I'd be interested in knowing what "too high" was. 

You never seem to ever find out.

[drewski6]

53 minutes ago, notin said:

If the Sox get 30 fWAR out of Durbin in the 5 years before he hits free agency, you folks better damn well be “happy”.   And by “happy” I mean building altars to Breslow and naming all your children Craig, including both your twin daughters.

But if the Sox get 10-15 fWAR out of Durbin in the next 5 years, the trade was still good…

 

 

No Im not parading Breslow around on my shoulders, naming my daughters after him, because he backed into a MI who was #8 on his list of MIs to acquire that he only got because was cheaper than Zach Neto prospect cost.  I will consider building a statue and naming kids/pets to honor Dubrin however.