Boston Red Sox, Houston Astros Engaging in Trade Talks

[moonslav59]

30 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Probably better than Jimi and Jeff since they are dead. 

You don't think they are bending in heaven?

By all accounts they still are.

[mvp 78]

7 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

You don't think they are bending in heaven?

By all accounts they still are.

I don't claim to know what happened to them at the Chinvat Bridge. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

10 hours ago, FredLynn said:

I don’t think Bregman alone would be enough. That wouldn’t even get us back to baseline. We also lost players like Devers and Refsnyder. Two players like Bregman would do it. Or one player like Schwarber. Anthony needs company. Our rotation is good but it won’t matter if we can’t score runs.

This is what most of the forum has been saying all winter. But when you post it, it sounds like... most still agree.

And Jimmy with a "y" is still pickin. The dogs of doom are howling more.

 

[FredLynn]

10 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

He never tried to think it out.  He said we would add no one.  I challenged him and he folded.  Then he changed the goalposts to an almost unattainable .820.  I'm happy that he admits he was wrong.

I’m happy you are comfortable with your misguided thinking that I was wrong. Did you really think I would fall for a sucker bet?

[moonslav59]

I think almost all of us agreed we needed one big bat. Some wanted two.

I think we all wanted a solid and dependable #2 SP'er, and some felt Gray was close enough- some didn't.

We needed a 2B/3Bman, and some felt we could get one and fill the one big bat at the same time with KMarte, Breggie or Bichette. Some felt players like B & B and Paredes don't quite reach big bat status, but they'd fill the 2B/3B need well enough.

We did not fill the big bat need. Contreras was a nice get, but he barely replaced Bregman's bat. Nobody is replacing Devers' bat.

We have yet to fill the 2B/3B gaping hole, and it looks like no big bat options are out there for those positions, right now. Paredes and E Suarez come closest, but each have downsides- like the ES defense at 3B and what we need to give up to get IP.

Now, we added to the rotation in more ways than any of imagined. On paper, the massive gains are indisputable. Whether it is enough to offset the non gains at other positions of need remains to be seen. We still have an OF/DH logjam. That's going on 2-3 years. It makes little sense to hold such strength on the bench, when you have such a glaring problem at 2B/3B. We also have added strength at SP'er depth, which is never a bad thing. It's hard to predict if we need that much, and that area also seems like we could spare one piece to give up to add a 2B/3B piece.

Let's see what Brez still has in him. He's been a wheeler and dealer, recently.

 

[Duran Is The Man]

32 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I think almost all of us agreed we needed one big bat. Some wanted two.

I think we all wanted a solid and dependable #2 SP'er, and some felt Gray was close enough- some didn't.

We needed a 2B/3Bman, and some felt we could get one and fill the one big bat at the same time with KMarte, Breggie or Bichette. Some felt players like B & B and Paredes don't quite reach big bat status, but they'd fill the 2B/3B need well enough.

We did not fill the big bat need. Contreras was a nice get, but he barely replaced Bregman's bat. Nobody is replacing Devers' bat.

We have yet to fill the 2B/3B gaping hole, and it looks like no big bat options are out there for those positions, right now. Paredes and E Suarez come closest, but each have downsides- like the ES defense at 3B and what we need to give up to get IP.

Now, we added to the rotation in more ways than any of imagined. On paper, the massive gains are indisputable. Whether it is enough to offset the non gains at other positions of need remains to be seen. We still have an OF/DH logjam. That's going on 2-3 years. It makes little sense to hold such strength on the bench, when you have such a glaring problem at 2B/3B. We also have added strength at SP'er depth, which is never a bad thing. It's hard to predict if we need that much, and that area also seems like we could spare one piece to give up to add a 2B/3B piece.

Let's see what Brez still has in him. He's been a wheeler and dealer, recently.

 

without adding a "big bat", i'm afraid that our anemic offense will be exposed.for what it is. and for this, i would say Brez's offseason was/is a failure. Brez knew we needed some power going into the offseason. he could have signed Alonso, but he didn't. he could have signed Bregman, but he didn't. he could have signed Schwarber, but he didn't. he did a nice job of upgrading the pitching staff, but what good is it without some offensive production? 

[FredLynn]

6 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

without adding a "big bat", i'm afraid that our anemic offense will be exposed.for what it is. and for this, i would say Brez's offseason was/is a failure. Brez knew we needed some power going into the offseason. he could have signed Alonso, but he didn't. he could have signed Bregman, but he didn't. he could have signed Schwarber, but he didn't. he did a nice job of upgrading the pitching staff, but what good is it without some offensive production? 

That pretty much nails it. Our competition in the ALE is much better and we are probably treading water-deeper pitching, almost certainly an anemic offense. 
Another long season is on the horizon.

[JoeBrady]

10 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

But he can really bend that string better than Jimi, Eric and Jeff.

Jimi & Eric, certainly.  But my musical tastes run more to towards Sly Stone and Santana rather than Jeff..  They exceled in everything, so they didn't get as much credit with the guitar.  And I'm not too much into VH, but Eddie could pluck pretty well.

[JoeBrady]

1 hour ago, FredLynn said:

Did you really think I would fall for a sucker bet?

• You said we wouldn't acquire a 2B/3B.
• When challenged, you said we wouldn't acquire a 2B/3B with an .820 OPS.
• When challenged, you changed that to a .780.

I was saving this to the end, but you're wrong on all three accounts.  What we really need is the best all-around 2B/3B.  Would you be happy with a guy like Suarez, with no glove, or a guy like Paredes, who is okay with the glove?

[notin]

2 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

You don't think they are bending in heaven?

By all accounts they still are.

Then they will never get to jam with Robert Johnson!!

[notin]

22 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

• You said we wouldn't acquire a 2B/3B.
• When challenged, you said we wouldn't acquire a 2B/3B with an .820 OPS.
• When challenged, you changed that to a .780.

I was saving this to the end, but you're wrong on all three accounts.  What we really need is the best all-around 2B/3B.  Would you be happy with a guy like Suarez, with no glove, or a guy like Paredes, who is okay with the glove?

I think the more likely candidate might be Brendan Donovan.  St Louis has his replacement ready to go in JJ Wetherholdt, and the Astros are holding fast on Paredes…

[FredLynn]

50 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

• You said we wouldn't acquire a 2B/3B.
• When challenged, you said we wouldn't acquire a 2B/3B with an .820 OPS.
• When challenged, you changed that to a .780.

I was saving this to the end, but you're wrong on all three accounts.  What we really need is the best all-around 2B/3B.  Would you be happy with a guy like Suarez, with no glove, or a guy like Paredes, who is okay with the glove?

As I also said, I have no doubt that we will get SOMEONE to play in the IF, just not someone of sufficient quality to turn us into a contender. We will likely get a rehab project or another dumpster product. By "someone" I meant "someone of significance". I don't count getting bums with "potential" as "someone".  You tried to get me to sign on to a sucker bet and were shocked when you discovered that I am not a sucker who felt obliged to adhere to the terms of a wager that YOU set up. So I set up my own wager. You backed out.

We need more than Paredes or Suarez. I could live with either one as long as we improve the offense by signing another very good bat. We are WASTING a window the team has. Got the rotation set and a stud OF. Now fill in the rest of the roster.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, FredLynn said:

As I also said, I have no doubt that we will get SOMEONE to play in the IF, just not someone of sufficient quality to turn us into a contender. We will likely get a rehab project or another dumpster product. By "someone" I meant "someone of significance". I don't count getting bums with "potential" as "someone".  You tried to get me to sign on to a sucker bet and were shocked when you discovered that I am not a sucker who felt obliged to adhere to the terms of a wager that YOU set up. So I set up my own wager. You backed out.

We need more than Paredes or Suarez. I could live with either one as long as we improve the offense by signing another very good bat. We are WASTING a window the team has. Got the rotation set and a stud OF. Now fill in the rest of the roster.

Would Paredes (2B) and Suarez (3B) be enough?

I know that's not happening, but...

(Mayer would be in AAA.)

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, FredLynn said:

As I also said, I have no doubt that we will get SOMEONE to play in the IF, just not someone of sufficient quality to turn us into a contender. We will likely get a rehab project or another dumpster product. By "someone" I meant "someone of significance". I don't count getting bums with "potential" as "someone".  You tried to get me to sign on to a sucker bet and were shocked when you discovered that I am not a sucker who felt obliged to adhere to the terms of a wager that YOU set up. So I set up my own wager. You backed out.

We need more than Paredes or Suarez. I could live with either one as long as we improve the offense by signing another very good bat. We are WASTING a window the team has. Got the rotation set and a stud OF. Now fill in the rest of the roster.

While I see no indication the Twins might part with Keaschall, would he fit the bill?

(We can't trade Mayer for him, unless we later trade an OF'er for a 3Bman like Paredes.)

To me, Keaschall and Paredes would put us top 3, even if we lost Mayer plus an OF'er or Tolle.

[FredLynn]

13 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Would Paredes (2B) and Suarez (3B) be enough?

I know that's not happening, but...

(Mayer would be in AAA.)

I think that would give us a chance. Anthony really has no protection at all. He is our only consistent threat. Its possible that Abreu or Casas might have a resurgence, but what really had to happen was us getting Schwarber or Alonso. Thats history now. I doubt we will get EITHER Suarez OR Paredes. They'll find another mediocre player followed by another litany of excuses.

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

I think that would give us a chance. Anthony really has no protection at all. He is our only consistent threat. Its possible that Abreu or Casas might have a resurgence, but what really had to happen was us getting Schwarber or Alonso. Thats history now. I doubt we will get EITHER Suarez OR Paredes. They'll find another mediocre player followed by another litany of excuses.

I'm deeply concerned about our offense, but I also think we should not undersell the fact that teams can win in a variety of ways, and we greatly improved our rotation. 

I know some think rotations are over-rated, and maybe I am one who thinks they are worth more than they really are.

While Contreras is certainly no Big Papi or Manny or even JD or Devers, he is a decent offensive player. While he's a little older than Breggie, he's done way better in the last 3-4 years than Bregman, and yet all we hear about is losing Bregman, how we lost Bregman and Willson is hardly mentioned.

Last 3 years: .817 Contreras (127 OPS+)/ .796 Bregman(121)/ .827 Alonso  (130)

Last 2 years: .813 Contreras (129 OPS+)/.791 Bregman (121)/ .830 Alonso (133)

Of course, I'd rather have Alonso than Willson, but he's still pretty good, but you hardly ever talk about him, unless we point it out to you. He's better than Abreu and Casas, who you mentioned. Duran has better numbers, too.

No, we don't have the bat to protect Anthony. We didn't last year, and he did okay. Don't say Breggie protected him, because Willson is close enough to Breggie.

We agree we need a bat.

We need a 2B/3Bman, too. This one is cheaper, and so this is the one we fill before day one, IMO.

[FredLynn]

34 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

While I see no indication the Twins might part with Keaschall, would he fit the bill?

(We can't trade Mayer for him, unless we later trade an OF'er for a 3Bman like Paredes.)

To me, Keaschall and Paredes would put us top 3, even if we lost Mayer plus an OF'er or Tolle.

I was not familiar with Luke Keaschall so I looked him up. He would be perfect but would likely cost an arm and a leg in a trade. OPS+=128. Its not happening......but yes, he would be perfect.

[FredLynn]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm deeply concerned about our offense, but I also think we should not undersell the fact that teams can win in a variety of ways, and we greatly improved our rotation. 

I know some think rotations are over-rated, and maybe I am one who thinks they are worth more than they really are.

While Contreras is certainly no Big Papi or Manny or even JD or Devers, he is a decent offensive player. While he's a little older than Breggie, he's done way better in the last 3-4 years than Bregman, and yet all we hear about is losing Bregman, how we lost Bregman and Willson is hardly mentioned.

Last 3 years: .817 Contreras (127 OPS+)/ .796 Bregman(121)/ .827 Alonso  (130)

Last 2 years: .813 Contreras (129 OPS+)/.791 Bregman (121)/ .830 Alonso (133)

Of course, I'd rather have Alonso than Willson, but he's still pretty good, but you hardly ever talk about him, unless we point it out to you. He's better than Abreu and Casas, who you mentioned. Duran has better numbers, too.

No, we don't have the bat to protect Anthony. We didn't last year, and he did okay. Don't say Breggie protected him, because Willson is close enough to Breggie.

We agree we need a bat.

We need a 2B/3Bman, too. This one is cheaper, and so this is the one we fill before day one, IMO.

Contreras is going to help, no doubt. He and Suarez are going to make the team better, but at this point the losses are at least as great as the additions. At the end of the day you MUST be able to score runs to win games.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

I was not familiar with Luke Keaschall so I looked him up. He would be perfect but would likely cost an arm and a leg in a trade. OPS+=128. Its not happening......but yes, he would be perfect.

BTV has Mayer worth more, but I disagree with that.

0.001% chance we get him, but maybe somebody is out there we don't know about.

I used to think KMarte was the only solution.

[moonslav59]

Just now, FredLynn said:

Contreras is going to help, no doubt. He and Suarez are going to make the team better, but at this point the losses are at least as great as the additions. At the end of the day you MUST be able to score runs to win games.

The idea is that we if we could get to even on offense - not "losses"- maybe the pitching boosts us high enough.

[JoeBrady]

58 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

(Mayer would be in AAA.)

We won't keep Mayer in AAA any longer.  This why you have highly-rated prospects.

[moonslav59]

24 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

We won't keep Mayer in AAA any longer.  This why you have highly-rated prospects.

Agreed. We will not be adding 2 infielders, unless mayer is traded, and that's not happening either.

My point was on adding Paredes and Suarez. Even then, if an OF'er was traded for Paredes, Suarez would DH, Paredes at 3B and Mayer at 2B (or Mayer 3B/Paredes 2B.)

[Duran Is The Man]

4 hours ago, FredLynn said:

I was not familiar with Luke Keaschall so I looked him up. He would be perfect but would likely cost an arm and a leg in a trade. OPS+=128. Its not happening......but yes, he would be perfect.

i've seen Keaschall play many times. he's the real deal. i'd love to see him in a Sox uni.

[Duran Is The Man]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Agreed. We will not be adding 2 infielders, unless mayer is traded, and that's not happening either.

My point was on adding Paredes and Suarez. Even then, if an OF'er was traded for Paredes, Suarez would DH, Paredes at 3B and Mayer at 2B (or Mayer 3B/Paredes 2B.)

i'd love to know what houston wants for IP.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Duran Is The Man said:

i'd love to know what houston wants for IP.

I think it's Abreu. The Sox might be refusing or asking for another piece.

I'd do it, if the added Brian King or even their catching prospect Janek.

I might do it if they add Sousa, another LH'd RP'er.

I'd do Abreu + Hicks for IP + Abreu.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Duran Is The Man said:

i've seen Keaschall play many times. he's the real deal. i'd love to see him in a Sox uni.

I've read some positive things about him, and it appears BTV undervalues him.

[Hitch]

14 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I think it's Abreu. The Sox might be refusing or asking for another piece.

I'd do it, if the added Brian King or even their catching prospect Janek.

I might do it if they add Sousa, another LH'd RP'er.

I'd do Abreu + Hicks for IP + Abreu.

I'm not sending Abreu away in a deal for Paredes unless they add A LOT more. 

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, Hitch said:

I'm not sending Abreu away in a deal for Paredes unless they add A LOT more. 

Dumping Hicks saves $12M x 2 ($10M x 2 on AAV.) That helps us afford Suarez.

It's more like Abreu for Paredes + Suarez.

(I'm not sure I'd do it either.)

[Hitch]

Just now, moonslav59 said:

Dumping Hicks saves $12M x 2 ($10M x 2 on AAV.) That helps us afford Suarez.

It's more like Abreu for Paredes + Suarez.

Why would we add both? It's one or the other. I'm not using Abreu just to dump Hicks. He's far too good (and under control) to be using as an opportunity to salary dump and bring in inferior players. 

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, Hitch said:

I'm not sending Abreu away in a deal for Paredes unless they add A LOT more. 

But adding Hicks gets John Henry salary relief.