Red Sox Have "Aggressive" Offer On Table For Alex Bregman

[moonslav59]

9 minutes ago, Old Red said:

A big NO on $170/6, or anything close. 3 yrs, or 4 years max, and then MOVE on.

Yes, we understand your position.

We await your later complaints that Brez did nothing.

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

It is more likely they offered 4 or maybe even 5 years than the same offer. I agree.

On your $140M/5 offer, adding $30M/1 would be a major change- one more year and a higher AAV.

I think that's why they've used the terms like "aggressive" rather than leaking actual numbers. If he signs elsewhere, plan B better B good.

[Old Red]

8 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Yes, we understand your position.

We await your later complaints that Brez did nothing.

I’m glad you’ll be waiting for me, because I’ll be way down the list that has started already especially out in RSN. SHAM, SHAM, SHAM.🤫

[moonslav59]

21 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I’m glad you’ll be waiting for me, because I’ll be way down the list that has started already especially out in RSN. SHAM, SHAM, SHAM.🤫

The "list?"

BTW, I'm also against giving Breggie a large and long deal.

"Full throttle" was a sham. Do you really disagree?

[drewski6]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

I don't believe there are many suitors out there. I also don't believe the 6/170 rumors. That amount is most likely higher than what the Sox offered. 

6/170 = very aggressive. We made an aggressive offer, hold the very

So you could be correct, I could also be overanalyzing. Also both those things can be true (you win up being correct, while I am over here overanalyzing the absence of the word "very")

I do think that ego matters to these athletes, and thats why I think the magic number is 156, not 140.

Its silly but the team can be look, more than alonso, more than schwarber

It may be 6/156, it may be 5/156, it may be 4/146 with a team option but 10m buyout for yr 5 like Moon's  proposed structure.

But I dont think Bregman deserves less than Schwarber/Alonso.  It terms of total earning power, I would have ranked:

Tucker
Bo
Breg
Alonso
Schwarber

[drewski6]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

I don't believe there are many suitors out there. I also don't believe the 6/170 rumors. That amount is most likely higher than what the Sox offered. 

To be clear - the 6/170 rumors are derived from that is what the tigers offered him last year.  Thats not from like a current leak.

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

6/170 = very aggressive. We made an aggressive offer, hold the very

So you could be correct, I could also be overanalyzing. Also both those things can be true (you win up being correct, while I am over here overanalyzing the absence of the word "very")

I do think that ego matters to these athletes, and thats why I think the magic number is 156, not 140.

Its silly but the team can be look, more than alonso, more than schwarber

It may be 6/156, it may be 5/156, it may be 4/146 with a team option but 10m buyout for yr 5 like Moon's  proposed structure.

But I dont think Bregman deserves less than Schwarber/Alonso.  It terms of total earning power, I would have ranked:

Tucker
Bo
Breg
Alonso
Schwarber

"Deserves" doesn't really mean anything to me TBH. I'm just guessing at what the Sox offered. Like I said, I don't believe they went 6/170. 

[drewski6]

Heres what I keep coming back to:

Schwarber vs Bregman
HItting : Schwarber 2.5 points (significantly better)
Fielding: Bregman 2 points (schwarb doesnt even field)
Age: Bregman 0.5 pt (slightly younger)
TIE

Alonso vs Bregman
Hitting : Alonso 1 pt 
Fielding Bregman 2 pts 
Age: Alonso 1 pt
TIE

So to me , the magic number is around 150

[drewski6]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

"Deserves" doesn't really mean anything to me TBH. I'm just guessing at what the Sox offered. Like I said, I don't believe they went 6/170. 

6/170 is at the upper level, and I can see it, but its higher than I would guess.

But when I say "deserve", what I mean is that his contract WILL BE compared to Alonso and Schwarber.  If the offer is under 150m, I assure you Bregmans agent is reminding the team that Alonso and Schwarber did better. Now if Bregmans best offer is 140 from the sox and the sox are wise to it, it may not work, but I assure you its getting mentioned, if not anything but as a last ditch tactic...."You cant find a way to add 10m more so my client feels like he made the same as Alonso/Schwarber and doesnt have to feel like hes less than?"

And if its the opposite, lets say the offer is sitting out there at 160m, again I assure you, the team is repeatedly reminding breg's agent that the offer is more than alonso/schwarber.  Look, we do want Breg back ,we've offered more than Alonso got, more than Schwarber got, this shows Breg was always plan A, it proves we do really want him and we want him at fair price not just "our price". If it were me, and I was Bres, and I was getting a call about Breg from his agent, its how I would answer the phone: "Hi , thanks for calling. Sorry if youve heard this but the amount of our offer is more than alonso got , more than bregman got....

[drewski6]

Ive hired people for 130k that I know would have taken 115k, and ive done it multiple times.  Its not always about MAX PROFITSSSSSS

[drewski6]

Its okay to be a compassionate human. Hey HR, I know this person would take 115k.  But beore you offer that, Im jazzed about this candidate, and they got f'd over in their last job.  I know that they may be a little desperate cuz currently out of work, and they make take that 115k they made last job, they may even take a little less.  But can we please offer 130k , so the candidate, after all that stress, after all that OMG I lost my job, this is terrible , what are we going to do!?! After all that panic, this PERSON can come away with a better paying job and think hey maybe that was all for a reason. They can feel like they landed on their feet.  I really like the human. Lets do something swell and generous!  Im willing to take the extra money from my budget even if it slightly decreases my bonus

^ people who are not ruthless jerks 

[Bellhorn04]

17 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

He saw a hug drop from 2018-2019 to 2000-2025. Sure, he was pretty level all those years, but not clse to that previous level.

He was horrible from opening day '24 until July 4th 2024. He was not great after coming back from the injury in 2025.

Cracks are showing. One could argue he's had two bad half seasons and two great ones i his last 4.

I think Joe B and me are both looking at the same thing - his WAR per games played is consistently good.

You're not wrong that are concerning signs as well.  But I'm still hoping for the announcement that we've signed him. 

[mvp 78]

16 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I think Joe B and me are both looking at the same thing - his WAR per games played is consistently good.

You're not wrong that are concerning signs as well.  But I'm still hoping for the announcement that we've signed him. 

I'd rather they signed him than passed, but I also understand if they are setting a contract limit that they won't exceed on him. 

I'd rather they overextend on a Bregman contract than overpay on a Marte trade. 

There are no good options next year via FA for IFers IMO. 

[moonslav59]

28 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I think Joe B and me are both looking at the same thing - his WAR per games played is consistently good.

You're not wrong that are concerning signs as well.  But I'm still hoping for the announcement that we've signed him. 

He has been consistent for the last 5-6 years. His WAR is helped a lot by his defense, which is not a ding on him.

I want him back. His leadership has real value, too.

[Old Red]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

The "list?"

BTW, I'm also against giving Breggie a large and long deal.

"Full throttle" was a sham. Do you really disagree?

Full throttle was only a sham if you believed it. I didn’t. I’ve been saying the last three off seasons that I’ll believe it when I see it, so no I didn’t think it was a sham. 

[Old Red]

51 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I think Joe B and me are both looking at the same thing - his WAR per games played is consistently good.

You're not wrong that are concerning signs as well.  But I'm still hoping for the announcement that we've signed him. 

If we sign Bregman then great, but I’m just not in the camp that he has to be signed at any, and all cost. 

[mvp 78]

26 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

He has been consistent for the last 5-6 years. His WAR is helped a lot by his defense, which is not a ding on him.

I want him back. His leadership has real value, too.

The Ipad! 

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Full throttle was only a sham if you believed it. I didn’t. I’ve been saying the last three off seasons that I’ll believe it when I see it, so no I didn’t think it was a sham. 

The problem even with that whole issue is that Werner said "full throttle" and he doesn't have the final say. Werner probably wants to spend more than Henry does. Werner wants the tv stars. Werner wants the ratings. Werner wants the FA signings. Henry is more the guy that we see at the end of Moneyball no matter how truthy it is or not. We all know in our hearts, the bottom line is more important to Henry than the rings at this point. Back when he first bought the Red Sox, he was convinced otherwise. He needs a guy like Lucchino or Dombrowski who can convince him to spend. Instead, he's surrounding himself with yes men. 

[moonslav59]

9 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Full throttle was only a sham if you believed it. I didn’t. I’ve been saying the last three off seasons that I’ll believe it when I see it, so no I didn’t think it was a sham. 

You don't know the definition of a sham. It does not have to be believed to be a sham.

They did not mean "full throttle." They knew the meaning of the phrase but said it anyway in an attempt to sham the fans and maybe sell more tickets. It was a sham, whether believed by some fans or no fans.

I'm still not sure why you have an issue with a term that fits the event perfectly.

[moonslav59]

9 minutes ago, Old Red said:

If we sign Bregman then great, but I’m just not in the camp that he has to be signed at any, and all cost. 

Is anyone in the camp of signing him at any and all cost?

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

The problem even with that whole issue is that Werner said "full throttle" and he doesn't have the final say. Werner probably wants to spend more than Henry does. Werner wants the tv stars. Werner wants the ratings. Werner wants the FA signings. Henry is more the guy that we see at the end of Moneyball no matter how truthy it is or not. We all know in our hearts, the bottom line is more important to Henry than the rings at this point. Back when he first bought the Red Sox, he was convinced otherwise. He needs a guy like Lucchino or Dombrowski who can convince him to spend. Instead, he's surrounding himself with yes men. 

I think it was more than a Werner sham.

[mvp 78]

7 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I think it was more than a Werner sham.

Werner was the guy who said "full throttle." While they trot him out for the cameras, he's not a guy with any insider knowledge and hasn't been for years. He had to walk back the comment a day later after being spoken to. 

[Old Red]

11 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Is anyone in the camp of signing him at any and all cost?

I’ll rephrase to say in more years, and more money than I would pay.

[moonslav59]

Just now, Old Red said:

I’ll rephrase to say in more years, and more money than I would pay.

There are certainly some fans and posters willing to go larger and longer than we both are.

If I knew we'd get Suarez, I'd be fine with your limits suggested. I'm not sure of anything with these guys.

[Old Red]

13 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

You don't know the definition of a sham. It does not have to be believed to be a sham.

They did not mean "full throttle." They knew the meaning of the phrase but said it anyway in an attempt to sham the fans and maybe sell more tickets. It was a sham, whether believed by some fans or no fans.

I'm still not sure why you have an issue with a term that fits the event perfectly.

I know what the definition of what sham is, but not only did I not believe it I didn’t really pay any attention to it. You bought it hook, line, and sinker. You have a problem with it, and I don’t. Just like I don’t pay any attention to what Sam says at the year end presser every year. Like I said before the Red SOX have been peeing on fans, and telling them it’s rain. Some have figured out to get a raincoat, and some have not.

[Old Red]

30 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

The problem even with that whole issue is that Werner said "full throttle" and he doesn't have the final say. Werner probably wants to spend more than Henry does. Werner wants the tv stars. Werner wants the ratings. Werner wants the FA signings. Henry is more the guy that we see at the end of Moneyball no matter how truthy it is or not. We all know in our hearts, the bottom line is more important to Henry than the rings at this point. Back when he first bought the Red Sox, he was convinced otherwise. He needs a guy like Lucchino or Dombrowski who can convince him to spend. Instead, he's surrounding himself with yes men. 

Well said. I’ve been saying for the last for 3 years now that the JH of today is not the same JH that bought the Red Sox. 20+ years ago, and his priority is not the same like defeating the Evil EMPIRE. Back then too as JH said on the Felger, and Mazz show that LL runs the Red SOX, and that hasn’t been the case for years now.

[moonslav59]

7 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I know what the definition of what sham is, but not only did I not believe it I didn’t really pay any attention to it. You bought it hook, line, and sinker. You have a problem with it, and I don’t. Just like I don’t pay any attention to what Sam says at the year end presser every year. Like I said before the Red SOX have been peeing on fans, and telling them it’s rain. Some have figured out to get a raincoat, and some have not.

Now, you owe me an apology for lying about my position. "I believed" the full throttle statement? What a massive and intentional lie.

What they said was a sham. That's the definition of a sham, whether believed or not by anyone. You can choose to believe words mean what they don't mean. You've done that several times before, but please stop the lies about what I believed and said.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Well said. I’ve been saying for the last for 3 years now that the JH of today is not the same JH that bought the Red Sox. 20+ years ago, and his priority is not the same like defeating the Evil EMPIRE. Back then too as JH said on the Felger, and Mazz show that LL runs the Red SOX, and that hasn’t been the case for years now.

So, the evil empire is defeating us, now?

No, he's not the same JH. Nobody is the same after 20+ years. Brilliant point.

[mvp 78]

10 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Well said. I’ve been saying for the last for 3 years now that the JH of today is not the same JH that bought the Red Sox. 20+ years ago, and his priority is not the same like defeating the Evil EMPIRE. Back then too as JH said on the Felger, and Mazz show that LL runs the Red SOX, and that hasn’t been the case for years now.

Larry stepped down in 2015. DD took over and was kicked out in 2019. Since then, the Sox have been wandering in the wilderness. 

[mvp 78]

7 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

So, the evil empire is defeating us, now?

No, he's not the same JH. Nobody is the same after 20+ years. Brilliant point.

Since DD left in 2019: 

Yankees; 494 - 376, 6 playoff appearances, 2 ALE titles

Red Sox: 442 - 428, 2 playoff appearances, 0 ALE titles 

Evil Empire is currently kicking our ass.