Mookie Betts Is Officially On The Wrong Side Of His Contract

[mvp 78]

2 hours ago, king koji said:

People get hung up on the "trade" in this equation. As if the Sox were ever playing from a position of strength on this. The "trade," as you call it, ONLY came about when it was made clear that Betts and Boras wouldn't accept Boston offer and were leaving in Free Agency ANYWAY.

So think of Betts as someone who left in Free Agency- Johnny Damon, Jon Lester, examples, and that we got Connor Wong back as a bonus. 

Glad we dont have that Betts Contract on the books right now, Devers too.

Lester didn't leave in FA. 

[mvp 78]

34 minutes ago, king koji said:

Did the Red Sox, or did they not, TRY to sign Mookie Betts with a competetive offer? Seems like YOUR the 10-year old.

Offer was clearly not competitive. He signed for 20%+ more. If you found a job that paid you 20% more for the same work, would you think your current job was paying you competitively? 

[moonslav59]

6 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

The front office blew that with Mookie, because every time they made him a "competitive" offer, it was a year too late for what his market value had actually become.

And this was when Dombrowski was GM, and then presumably when Bloom took over... two different guys in charge, with different agendas.

The common thread: the dozens of Assistant Vice Presidents -- who are still there -- haunting the conference rooms with their spreadsheets and projections. 

But the extensions for Bello, Rafaela, Campbell and Anthony, among others, show that at least they learned something...

Based on how well we do with comp picks, maybe we should have just let him walk without a trade. Then, once COVID hit, and his final deal was not much higher than our offer, maybe we end up keeping him. (I know- dream on... Not gonna happen with Bloom & Co.)

[king koji]

15 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Lester didn't leave in FA. 

Oh yes. Thanks for the correction, and apologies. 

[king koji]

14 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Offer was clearly not competitive. He signed for 20%+ more. If you found a job that paid you 20% more for the same work, would you think your current job was paying you competitively? 

Im okay with having not paid him. If the Sox dont win the World Series with Mookie 2021-25 we'd be stuck in a bad deal from this point forward. I'm sure everyone would agree that they wouldn't give Mookie 7 years and 210 right now..

We won a World Series with Betts, time to win one built around Crochet and Anthony. Over it.

[mvp 78]

24 minutes ago, king koji said:

Oh yes. Thanks for the correction, and apologies. 

They traded him and Gomes for Cespedes and a comp pick then spun Cespedes in a deal for Porcello the following offseason. They lost the comp pick because they signed Hanley and Pablo, I believe. Austin Riley was available when the Sox would have been drafting.

[mvp 78]

24 minutes ago, king koji said:

Im okay with having not paid him. If the Sox dont win the World Series with Mookie 2021-25 we'd be stuck in a bad deal from this point forward. I'm sure everyone would agree that they wouldn't give Mookie 7 years and 210 right now..

We won a World Series with Betts, time to win one built around Crochet and Anthony. Over it.

If he was a FA, he'd get 7/210 right now. If the Sox swapped him for Masa, this place would be over the moon. 

[king koji]

7 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

If he was a FA, he'd get 7/210 right now. If the Sox swapped him for Masa, this place would be over the moon. 

He's not worth 7/210 IMHO. Masa was definitely a mistake but he's got only 2-36 left. Devers Contract was also a mistake, same can maybe be said for Story. I like the Contracts Breslow has handed out for the most part.

[notin]

5 minutes ago, king koji said:

He's not worth 7/210 IMHO. Masa was definitely a mistake but he's got only 2-36 left. Devers Contract was also a mistake, same can maybe be said for Story. I like the Contracts Breslow has handed out for the most part.

What contracts has Breslow handed out?  They’ve mostly (all?) been either short term or internal extensions…

[king koji]

14 minutes ago, notin said:

What contracts has Breslow handed out?  They’ve mostly (all?) been either short term or internal extensions…

Yes, Anthony, Campbell, Rafaela, Crochet. They count. Perhaps soon we'll see external ones. He’s also had Bregman and Chapman externally which were good ones.

[a700hitter]

Trading Mookie will be the Curse of the Bambino Part 2.  Mookie won a World Championship with Boston in 2018 (Ruth 1918). Mookie was traded after 2019 season (Ruth 1919).  Since the trade, Mookie has gone onto win 3 World Championships thus far.  Ruth won 4 with the Yankees.  Betts is ahead of Ruth’s pace.

[Hitch]

Anyone looking for the sunny side of this deal is at least a couple of years too early, and it's still not going to have made any sense. It's a trade that will haunt this franchise for decades. 

That said, I do think they offered him a competitive and fair deal when they put $200m in front of him after his down season in Year 2. His mother made the right call, but it wasn't an insignificant amount of money to offer him. 

After that he was only ever getting superstar money however, and deserved every penny.

[Old Red]

Mookie wasn’t much help in this years WS, but the Dodgers won, and Mookie won ring #4. 3 rings in six years with the Dodgers is not to shabby, and I hope he wins another 3, or 4. CONGRATS to Mookie, and the Dodgers.

[jad]

48 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Mookie wasn’t much help in this years WS, but the Dodgers won, and Mookie won ring #4. 3 rings in six years with the Dodgers is not to shabby, and I hope he wins another 3, or 4. CONGRATS to Mookie, and the Dodgers.

Well, except for the game-saving hit in game 6.  There's that.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

I'm certainly not crying a river that Mookie underperformed in these playoffs.  He had that one big hit but had so many other opportunities and he failed.  His career post season OPS is .740 and that number does not lie.  Now he is older and he will continue to decline, all this deferred money and big contracts the Dodgers have spent will come due soon.  Can't say I'm upset about any of this.

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

8 hours ago, a700hitter said:

Trading Mookie will be the Curse of the Bambino Part 2.  Mookie won a World Championship with Boston in 2018 (Ruth 1918). Mookie was traded after 2019 season (Ruth 1919).  Since the trade, Mookie has gone onto win 3 World Championships thus far.  Ruth won 4 with the Yankees.  Betts is ahead of Ruth’s pace.

Agree 100%.  The parallels with Ruth are crazy.  Shame on Henry.

[Bellhorn04]

5 hours ago, Hitch said:

Anyone looking for the sunny side of this deal is at least a couple of years too early, and it's still not going to have made any sense. It's a trade that will haunt this franchise for decades. 

That said, I do think they offered him a competitive and fair deal when they put $200m in front of him after his down season in Year 2. His mother made the right call, but it wasn't an insignificant amount of money to offer him. 

After that he was only ever getting superstar money however, and deserved every penny.

It's a trade that will haunt the franchise forever.

[Bellhorn04]

5 minutes ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

I'm certainly not crying a river that Mookie underperformed in these playoffs.  He had that one big hit but had so many other opportunities and he failed.  His career post season OPS is .740 and that number does not lie.  Now he is older and he will continue to decline, all this deferred money and big contracts the Dodgers have spent will come due soon.  Can't say I'm upset about any of this.

 

 

The Dodgers are in tremendous shape, not sure what you're talking about.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

17 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

The Dodgers are in tremendous shape, not sure what you're talking about.

 

Oh I never implied otherwise, they will continue to outspend their competition.  I'm just saying this contract will soon have diminishing returns, if that has not already started, and the deferred money is coming due at some point.  I for one was not looking forward to Mookie having a performance like Vlad and I'm glad that didn't happen.  

[Old Red]

20 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

It's a trade that will haunt the franchise forever.

The Red Sox were always a day late, and a dollar short, and that was under DD.

[Bellhorn04]

9 minutes ago, Old Red said:

The Red Sox were always a day late, and a dollar short, and that was under DD.

It was always Henry, though.  DD would have opened the vault for Mookie if he had his way IMHO.

[Bellhorn04]

19 minutes ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

 

Oh I never implied otherwise, they will continue to outspend their competition.  I'm just saying this contract will soon have diminishing returns, if that has not already started, and the deferred money is coming due at some point.  I for one was not looking forward to Mookie having a performance like Vlad and I'm glad that didn't happen.  

Betts had a lackluster season with the stick, but at the same time he made himself into one of the best defensive shortstops in the game, which is pretty incredible at his age, and he ended up with a 4.8 bWAR/3.4 fWAR.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

37 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

It's a trade that will haunt the franchise forever.

A ghost typed this on my keyboard the day he was traded:

"Boston losing Betts can't be as bad as losing Babe Ruth... but I fear it will be the biggest Red Sox mistake since" 

And only shallow fans will point out Mookie's batting stats when misjudging his overall value. The guy played Gold Glove shortstop for the world champs, and turned a double-play by himself with the tying run on third to win the World Series.

 

[Old Red]

10 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

It was always Henry, though.  DD would have opened the vault for Mookie if he had his way IMHO.

Yes it’s always Henry, but DD is not completely blameless in the Mookie saga IMO either.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

And please, no more "we're so lucky we're not burdened by the second half of his contract" crap --

Mookie Betts could have his knee blown out by Machado and sit in a folding chair at practices for the rest of his career like Pedroia, and his LA contract will still be worth it.

But there's probably one Sox fan or Sox employee somewhere celebrating staying below the tax line today, thinking he's glad it was the Dodgers who won three more World Series in the past six years instead of Boston...

[notin]

38 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

It was always Henry, though.  DD would have opened the vault for Mookie if he had his way IMHO.

The problem was he opened it for others first…

[Bellhorn04]

11 minutes ago, notin said:

The problem was he opened it for others first…

As you know I disagree.  The Zack Scott guy that used to work for the Sox explained it all clearly and credibly. They set a limit with Betts and that was that.

John Henry is a big boy billionaire and he knew it was his legacy on the line and he made his call.

[notin]

Just now, Bellhorn04 said:

As you know I disagree.  The Zack Scott guy that used to work for the Sox explained it all clearly and credibly,  They set a limit with Betts and that was that.

And who is “they”? Do you think Dombrowski was not part of that process?

[Bellhorn04]

36 minutes ago, notin said:

And who is “they”? Do you think Dombrowski was not part of that process?

Dombrowski was no more than a salaried employee.  Of course he would be involved in discussions, but when you're talking about one of the best players in history in his prime, that comes down to an ownership decision on how much they're willing to pay,  Ownership drew the line at around $300 million and wouldn't budge from that, and then gave the go-ahead to trade him.

I blame Dombrowski as much as I blame Bloom, which is to say zero and zero.

 

[Old Red]

19 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Dombrowski was no more than a salaried employee.  Of course he would be involved in discussions, but when you're talking about one of the best players in history in his prime, that comes down to an ownership decision on how much they're willing to pay,  Ownership drew the line at around $300 million and wouldn't budge from that, and then gave the go-ahead to trade him.

I blame Dombrowski as much as I blame Bloom, which is to say zero and zero.

 

The $300M was at the end. What about before that when Mookie, and his mother said no? Didn’t Mookie go to arbitration at one time? The Red Sox haggled with Mookie all the way through. Was that all JH?