Red Sox 2025 Season Review/Offseason Preview Thread

[mvp 78]

21 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

I'm an agnostic on DD, but that was borderline criminal.  Song had no chance of making the Phillies.  He had no chance of making anyone's roster.  DD did this to try to hurt the RS and couldn't have cared less what the impact on Song would be

Really took a big bite out of Song's career TBH. That move was simply done out of spite. 

[mvp 78]

19 hours ago, notin said:

Sure he saw something in Song when he drafted him multiple years ago - but he also should have been aware 1) Song had not pitched in multiple seasons and 2) he would have to keep a pitcher out of the game for multiple years on an MLB roster for a full season while attempting to compete for an NL East title.

Now maybe he tried to work out a trade to keep Song, which would have made sense, and really, was the ONLY course of action that made sense.  But if he tried, he never successfully enticed Bloom.  So then DD stubbornly proceeded to burn Song out in minutes and set his career back a couple years…

1. I was told by everyone on here that "there's no way he hasn't been throwing every day." In fact, he hadn't thrown at all, which is why he got injured right off the bat. 

2. When he was drafted DD stated (paraphrased) "it's a gambit, we don't know if he'll throw 85 or 95." I think the intent was just to get him out of the Sox org. Sneak him through the IL process the first season if he looks closer to the 95 scale, but needs work. In year 2, have him up for the minimum time allowed and then send him to AAA. If he didn't look close to being ready, they were fine with just DFA'ing him at some point. There was no real long term goal here, which is what Noah Song really needed for his career. 

[mvp 78]

18 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

He certainly did Song no good.

BTW, he's Rule 5 eligible again, this December.

Nobody took him last offseason.

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

Nobody took him last offseason.

Yup. If he looks sharp, this season, that may change. (We may add him to the 40 before then, if he does.)

[mvp 78]

10 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

Most teams had already passed on him.  If he has any trade value, the Nats, Rox, etc., would've claimed him and traded him.

At that point in time, it wasn't worth it to throw a guy who has been out 3 years on your active roster. 

[moonslav59]

Verdugo signs minor league deal w SDP.

Man, he fell fast.

We got Weissert & Fitts for him, and Fitts was part of the Sonny Gray deal.

Man, that Betts trade just keeps giving and giving!

🙃

[mvp 78]

10 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Man, that Betts trade just keeps giving and giving!

🙃

It helped land Sonny Gray.

[Hugh2]

41 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Really took a big bite out of Song's career TBH. That move was simply done out of spite. 

I remmeber at the time some people were still so enamored with DD and thought he could do no wrong defended him and critisized the Sox for not Protecting Song.  

It would certainly be a GREAT Story to see this could become a big leaguer and a valuable piece in a bullpen someday.  Even if it's not here but it would be pretty awesome if it was and he becomes a closer and closes out game 7 of the world series vs. the Phillies.....Ok I'm getting a little too ahead of myself here. 

[mvp 78]

12 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I remmeber at the time some people were still so enamored with DD and thought he could do no wrong defended him and critisized the Sox for not Protecting Song.  

It would certainly be a GREAT Story to see this could become a big leaguer and a valuable piece in a bullpen someday.  Even if it's not here but it would be pretty awesome if it was and he becomes a closer and closes out game 7 of the world series vs. the Phillies.....Ok I'm getting a little too ahead of myself here. 

https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/mlb/boston-red-sox/tomase-noah-song-is-dave-dombrowskis-chance-to-stick-it-to-red-sox/287825/

The Red Sox hit a Rule 5 home run with Garrett Whitlock. They may strike out looking on Noah Song.

Chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom made the calculated risk not to place him on the 40-man roster this winter, gambling that no organization would take him in the Rule 5 draft and commit to placing him on the big league roster, but Phillies president Dave Dombrowski had other ideas.

As smart as the Red Sox looked for swiping Whitlock from the Yankees following Tommy John surgery, they could equally regret the decision not to place Song on the 40-man roster over some lesser prospects this winter. That outcome is no longer in their hands.

Dombrowski no doubt relishes the opportunity to outmaneuver the organization that fired him less than a year after winning the World Series, and you have to admire the roll of the dice on such a premium talent.

Aggression is a hallmark of Dombrowski's approach, however, and the Phillies boast a deep enough roster, theoretically, to carry Song as a low-leverage arm while he learns on the job. If the Phils can manage him through the season, they will have successfully pilfered a player with the potential to be one of the top pitching prospects in the game.

There is some precedent for this in another sport. The Cowboys drafted Navy quarterback Roger Staubach 129th overall in the 1964 NFL draft and then waited as he completed his military obligation, which included a tour of duty in Vietnam.

There's no telling where Song's career goes from here, but if he succeeds in Philadelphia, it will be a black eye for a Red Sox organization so focused on building through homegrown talent. All Bloom and Co. can do now is hope he doesn't become the one they let slip away.

- by dumb dumb John Tomase who should have been run out of town 25 years ago

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

It helped land Sonny Gray.

I just said that.

[mvp 78]

41 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I just said that.

Maybe you don't know how to use emojis then, because you really ended that post confusingly. 

[moonslav59]

20 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Maybe you don't know how to use emojis then, because you really ended that post confusingly. 

Confusing to you, maybe.

Posters have been complaining about the return we got for Betts for years. Hell, someone just said we should dump Wong, so we lose all remnants of that trade and can move on.

Some may or may not count who we got for Verdugo in trade as something carried over from the Betts trade, as Fitts was not the only player traded for Gray.

Is Fitts' part of the Gray trade a partial "gift that keeps on giving?"

It might depend on how well Gray does in 2026, and even then how much of his success do we attribute to Fitts?

🙃

[notin]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Confusing to you, maybe.

Posters have been complaining about the return we got for Betts for years. Hell, someone just said we should dump Wong, so we lose all remnants of that trade and can move on.

Some may or may not count who we got for Verdugo in trade as something carried over from the Betts trade, as Fitts was not the only player traded for Gray.

Is Fitts' part of the Gray trade a partial "gift that keeps on giving?"

It might depend on how well Gray does in 2026, and even then how much of his success do we attribute to Fitts?

🙃

The Sox didn’t acquire Gray because they had Fitts; they acquired Gray because St. Louis wanted to move as much money as possible. If another team was willing to assume more money, they would have easily acquired Gray and probably parted with a lesser pitcher…

[moonslav59]

Just now, notin said:

The Sox didn’t acquire Gray because they had Fitts; they acquired Gray because St. Louis wanted to move as much money as possible. If another team was willing to assume more money, they would have easily acquired Gray and probably parted with a lesser pitcher…

Exactly. To say Fitts got us Gray is missing the big picture.

To say Betts got us Gray is...

🙃

[drewski6]

8 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Exactly. To say Fitts got us Gray is missing the big picture.

To say Betts got us Gray is...

🙃

Well, I dont know about Gray, but the Betts trade had me quite blue for a while.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Well, I dont know about Gray, but the Betts trade had me quite blue for a while.

We all hated the idea of trading Betts. The return was not what anyone expected, but the rumors were there was only one other equally lame offer.

I like the the looks of the Gray trade. I'm not going to say Betts helped us get Gray, even though technically one part of one part helped us get him.

[Kimmi]

On 2/28/2026 at 4:54 PM, moonslav59 said:

Wong is not an issue as a back-up catcher.

I am a Wong fan.  I think he would do a lot better if he were playing mostly everyday.  Hopefully, he'll do well enough to take a little more playing time from Narvaez this year to help keep Narvaez from getting run down.

[Kimmi]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

We all hated the idea of trading Betts. The return was not what anyone expected, but the rumors were there was only one other equally lame offer.

I like the the looks of the Gray trade. I'm not going to say Betts helped us get Gray, even though technically one part of one part helped us get him.

I was good with trading Betts.  I was also okay with the return that we got for him.  No one was going to match Betts' production, but nor was it going to cost us $300M plus.  Betts was going for the most money.  It was time to part ways.

With all of the trades made, the impacts are carried over for years, directly or indirectly.  Had we not traded Betts, the players that we have acquired or not acquired would be a lot different.  For all we know, we might not have Crochet today if we had kept Betts.

[moonslav59]

20 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

I was good with trading Betts.  I was also okay with the return that we got for him.  No one was going to match Betts' production, but nor was it going to cost us $300M plus.  Betts was going for the most money.  It was time to part ways.

With all of the trades made, the impacts are carried over for years, directly or indirectly.  Had we not traded Betts, the players that we have acquired or not acquired would be a lot different.  For all we know, we might not have Crochet today if we had kept Betts.

We've done better with comp picks than the Betts trade. I know that's hindsight, and the two reported trade offers both looked bad, but we almost traded him in the summer of 2019, so the deal was going to be made.

Speaking of comp picks...

Godbout for Pivetta

K Campbell for Bogey

Anthony for ERod

Kopech for Ellsbury

JBJ for VMart

Daniel Bard for Damon

Ellsbury & Lowrie for OCab

Buchholz for Pedro

[JoeBrady]

11 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

- by dumb dumb John Tomase who should have been run out of town 25 years ago

Writers looking for clicks.  An article titled "Song unlikely to stick with Phils".  Every organization has guys like this, and usually better.  If you hide the name and the Navy story, it sounds like "DD picks up 26 year old former 4th rounder from A-, who hasn't pitched in 4 years, and is on the IL".

[JoeBrady]

11 hours ago, Hugh2 said:

thought he could do no wrong defended him and critisized the Sox for not Protecting Song.  

There is a contingent of RS fans that criticize every move.  Darwinzon, and the rioting in the streets over letting Thaddeus Ward go.

[JoeBrady]

4 hours ago, Kimmi said:

I was also okay with the return that we got for him. 

I thought it was a fine deal.  Verdugo was a real player.  He looked like a great extension candidate.  After his first year with us, he had a career 5.2 bWAR in 644 ABs.  I'm shocked that he failed.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, JoeBrady said:

I thought it was a fine deal.  Verdugo was a real player.  He looked like a great extension candidate.  After his first year with us, he had a career 5.2 bWAR in 644 ABs.  I'm shocked that he failed.

The deal certainly looked better than the Padre offer- both at the time and in hindsight.

Verdugo did look good, out of the gate. Downs had some promise.

[jad]

There is NO excuse for dumping an MVP future hall of famer great citizen fan favorite.   None.   JH got a lot of money; we got a couple of years of a AAAA pornographer.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

1 hour ago, jad said:

There is NO excuse for dumping an MVP future hall of famer great citizen fan favorite.   None.   JH got a lot of money; we got a couple of years of a AAAA pornographer.

I can say that again: There is NO excuse for dumping an MVP future hall of famer great citizen fan favorite.

 

[drewski6]

The deal stunk and the return stunk.  Thinking Verdublow is/was a dude is too much looking at one or two years of WAR dividing it by salary and thinking great value.  But the truth is, you roll forward enough players like that, year over year and you are a C+/B- team.

Verdugo was the worst of all worlds, bad enough to hurt you, but just good enough to justify rolling over a 1 tool player at min wage.  He wasnt strong or fast. He didnt have a great work ethic, and he wasnt really a clubhouse guy either.  In fact, he was a slow singles hitting loner who gave you just enough D to justify carrying him for min wage.

This is obvious proof that WAR/$ is not the way, and this trade set the franchise back 10 years.  And it was obvious a mile away.

[mvp 78]

14 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

The deal stunk and the return stunk.  Thinking Verdublow is/was a dude is too much looking at one or two years of WAR dividing it by salary and thinking great value.  But the truth is, you roll forward enough players like that, year over year and you are a C+/B- team.

Verdugo was the worst of all worlds, bad enough to hurt you, but just good enough to justify rolling over a 1 tool player at min wage.  He wasnt strong or fast. He didnt have a great work ethic, and he wasnt really a clubhouse guy either.  In fact, he was a slow singles hitting loner who gave you just enough D to justify carrying him for min wage.

This is obvious proof that WAR/$ is not the way, and this trade set the franchise back 10 years.  And it was obvious a mile away.

Verdugo was a SSS mirage in 2020. That year was awful and we didn't have anything to be hopeful for. A guy like him was never going to be successful long term in Boston. That's why Cora was so frustrated with him all the time. He could have built a career for himself but threw it away instead. 

[JoeBrady]

48 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

But the truth is, you roll forward enough players like that, year over year and you are a C+/B- team.

After his first season with us, his career stats (644 ABS, ~ one season) included 20 HRs, so he had some power, 112/53 K/W, so he made contact, 8/2 SB/CS, 20 DRS, so he could field.  2nd round pick.  Top-35 prospect ranking.  He was a real player.

You're right on the work ethic, and that did him in.  But there was no reason to think he didn't have the skills.

[mvp 78]

5 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

After his first season with us, his career stats (644 ABS, ~ one season) included 20 HRs, so he had some power, 112/53 K/W, so he made contact, 8/2 SB/CS, 20 DRS, so he could field.  2nd round pick.  Top-35 prospect ranking.  He was a real player.

You're right on the work ethic, and that did him in.  But there was no reason to think he didn't have the skills.

14 of his 20 HR's were hit at launching pads for LHBs: PHI (3), LAD (6), COL (3), NYY (2). Him being able to perform at Fenway was not a given.

[drewski6]

54 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

After his first season with us, his career stats (644 ABS, ~ one season) included 20 HRs, so he had some power, 112/53 K/W, so he made contact, 8/2 SB/CS, 20 DRS, so he could field.  2nd round pick.  Top-35 prospect ranking.  He was a real player.

You're right on the work ethic, and that did him in.  But there was no reason to think he didn't have the skills.

There was plenty of reason to think he didnt have skills. He wasnt fast, big, strong, or athletic.  He could hit singles and throw.  LAD sold out for a reason. 

I understand that you can piece together partial seasons to make him look serviceable, and that was the problem.  They should have cut bait after 2022 but they were able to convince themselves that he was fine value/good enough and he was never big, strong, fast, athletic.

This is the stuff I fear.  The rolling the mediocre players over every year because complacency.  And Casas is in the same boat.