Red Sox 2025 Season Review/Offseason Preview Thread

[JoeBrady]

29 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

when one of your assets appreciates in value from 700m to 4b you now have 6x the collateral to borrow against.

Aww dude, you just brought tears to my eyes.

[UtahSox]

47 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Someone like henry , a legacy owner vs a new owner.  Forget revenue for jsut one sec (please), Henry has a 6x growth on valuation during his tenure as principal owner.  This has nothing to do with income (profit/cash into his pocket), its purely buy red sox for 700m, they are worth 4b today.  Which means he could (and has) sell lets say 10% (or give it in an asset trade, which same thing) and get 400m back in assets/cash.  Thats selling 10% of his investment for more than 50% of his money back.

The money that Henry has made.  The obscene wealth that he has amassed.  Its more from just revenue.  And we're not even getting into the opportunities that the red sox have blessed him with.  For example, are you aware that JH made 900m (profit) this week?

He bought the penguins for 900m 4 years ago, and sold them THIS week for 1.8b.  How did he come up with the 900m originally (which he doubled up on).  Well, when one of your assets appreciates in value from 700m to 4b you now have 6x the collateral to borrow against.  You can sell a measly 10% of your stake to generate 400m.  The Red Sox have given JH more than he has given us, and thats okay.

My only point here is that the revenue to payroll comparisons dont tell a fraction of the story.  Hes made multiple billions in valuaion increases alone and that exclues any salary/profit-share hes withdrawn, which im sure is at least another billion

And Im sorry but I reject that hes smart.  WEll, I reject that this is an example of intelligence, Im sure JH is smart.  But this is more of an example of how easy it is to make money when you already have money 

Same exact wavelength: I’d only refute the valuation of 4b. Even if you take a very conservative estimate, and apply minority/ non controllable discount, I think you could easily get 100% of his money back for 10-15% share in the Red Sox. In 2026 maybe more considering the TV deal, baseball 30 year valuation perpetuity.  

[drewski6]

37 minutes ago, Hitch said:

A sidebar - as I mentioned in the other thread: nobody should be getting excited that money is going to the Sox. They're trying to buy a second soccer team in Europe.

Any going to charitable causes?

[Hitch]

1 minute ago, drewski6 said:

Any going to charitable causes?

Yes I believe they're only putting beer costs up by $4 this season. 

[JoeBrady]

28 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

its harder to go from 0 ->2m than it is to go from 2m->20m.  Its easy to make money when you have money.  And Ill stop before I get yelled at for touching up against politics (which is hard to avoid, but im intentionally avoiding it or trying to by stopping here)

Did you I was going to let this slide by?  It can be painfully hard to be saving nickels and dimes when you're 25, but the accumulations take off as you age.

[mvp 78]

56 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

So, we did great from 2020-2024. LMAO

2020: Sale and ERod both were out the whole season. If Crochet and Gray missed 2026, this Sox team would struggle to win 70 games too. 

2021: ALCS

2022: Decent team that had injuries, sold their starting catcher and didn't add at the deadline when they were competitive even though they were on track to being over the CBT.

2023: Mediocre team that was kind of in contention for a while that didn't add at the deadline (or sell) when they were somewhat in it.

2024: Decent team that was better than the previous year, but had horrendous trade deadline additions and tanked down the stretch. Didn't end the season below .500 even though starting SS and 3B suffered significant injuries. 

 

[mvp 78]

39 minutes ago, UtahSox said:

Same exact wavelength: I’d only refute the valuation of 4b. Even if you take a very conservative estimate, and apply minority/ non controllable discount, I think you could easily get 100% of his money back for 10-15% share in the Red Sox. In 2026 maybe more considering the TV deal, baseball 30 year valuation perpetuity.  

Twins were just valued at 1.75B in their minority sale the other day FWIW.

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

2020: Sale and ERod both were out the whole season. If Crochet and Gray missed 2026, this Sox team would struggle to win 70 games too. 

2021: ALCS

2022: Decent team that had injuries, sold their starting catcher and didn't add at the deadline when they were competitive even though they were on track to being over the CBT.

2023: Mediocre team that was kind of in contention for a while that didn't add at the deadline (or sell) when they were somewhat in it.

2024: Decent team that was better than the previous year, but had horrendous trade deadline additions and tanked down the stretch. Didn't end the season below .500 even though starting SS and 3B suffered significant injuries. 

 

So, that period was fine for you, and all the beef we've heard for years was unfounded.

No cliff.

Wow!

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

So, that period was fine for you, and all the beef we've heard for years was unfounded.

No cliff.

Wow!

There didn't need to be any down seasons. JH chose not to invest in the team. The FA's the brought in were bad (Thanks Bloom). 

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

There didn't need to be any down seasons. JH chose not to invest in the team. The FA's the brought in were bad (Thanks Bloom). 

If JH spent, there was no need, yes, but some of knew he would not become the LAD East.

To keep Betts, Bogey and replac4e others who left, he'd have had an enormous budget. Some of us saw that coming and knew he would not do that. We predicted it, and it happened.

You can say all the "ifs" in the world, but it happened. We had a cliff.

[Larry Cook]

1 hour ago, JoeBrady said:

I've said this many times.  DD's primary superpower was knowing which prospects to keep and which to trade.  That's a tough row to hoe.  Many GMs don't even try. 

I think desperate Dave’s super power was spending owners money 💰 like a drunken sailor and getting the owner to keep spending ridiculous amounts of money year after year!!!  
My wife has this same super power unfortunately!!!! 

[UtahSox]

15 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Twins were just valued at 1.75B in their minority sale the other day FWIW.

IMO

The Red Sox + Fenway+ 80% of NESN would definitely sell for north of 7b right now. First to acknowledge I’m not an expert, but I have loose connections to 2 families with extensive sports ownership. It’s a sphere everyone is looking to invest into right now. Celtics just sold for 6.1b and they don’t even own TD Garden.

[drewski6]

22 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

Did you I was going to let this slide by?  It can be painfully hard to be saving nickels and dimes when you're 25, but the accumulations take off as you age.

Yes, we all know the key to financial freedom is skipping the coffee on the way to work 🙄

Propoganda santa brings you a list of reasons why its your fault that you are working your life away.

No thanks.

[Larry Cook]

4 minutes ago, UtahSox said:

IMO

The Red Sox + Fenway+ 80% of NESN would definitely sell for north of 7b right now. First to acknowledge I’m not an expert, but I have loose connections to 2 families with extensive sports ownership. It’s a sphere everyone is looking to invest into right now. Celtics just sold for 6.1b and they don’t even own TD Garden.

Isn’t there a line in the tv mini series billions, that owning sports franchises is how appoint royalty in this country???

[UtahSox]

2 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Yes, we all know the key to financial freedom is skipping the coffee on the way to work 🙄

Propoganda santa brings you a list of reasons why its your fault that you are working your life away.

No thanks.

Boomer vibes?

[a700hitter]

On 12/16/2025 at 10:02 PM, Larry Cook said:

The moron did restock the farm system! 
 

the desperate Dave model of team building was not sustainable!  
 

I have confidence that bres-slow can find a lane between what the dodgers do and what the rays do and we can be very successful on the field with this approach 

Who were all the great prospects that Dave sacrificed to win?  For the most part he moved all the guys who never made it.

[Larry Cook]

6 minutes ago, a700hitter said:

Who were all the great prospects that Dave sacrificed to win?  For the most part he moved all the guys who never made it.

Very true!  And yet when desperate Dave left, our farm system was ranked dead last! 

[Bellhorn04]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

So, we did great from 2020-2024. LMAO

But 2022-2024 can easily be argued to be a self-made cliff.  Inexperienced CBOS, didn't spend much, made some lousy moves.

[mvp 78]

 

[mvp 78]

Just now, Bellhorn04 said:

But 2022-2024 can easily be argued to be a self-made cliff.  Totally inexperienced CBOS, didn't spend much, made some lousy moves.

When someone has dug in on an argument for years, they are never backing down by now. 

[Bellhorn04]

The Dombrowski model is sustainable -- if you have an owner who's willing to keep writing the checks.

The Phillies have done pretty well the last few years, Playoph Phlops notwithstanding.

 

[moonslav59]

25 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

But 2022-2024 can easily be argued to be a self-made cliff.  Inexperienced CBOS, didn't spend much, made some lousy moves.

Of course it was "self made" and much of it was due to the confluence of a lot of big contracts and younger players reaching their big paydays in a short period of time.

Again, JH could have paid them and become the LAD East, but he did not.

Some of us knew he would not and predicted a cliff.

The cliff happened.

I agree on the reason, but it still happened.

 

[moonslav59]

27 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

When someone has dug in on an argument for years, they are never backing down by now. 

Yes, you keep digging in and denying it happened.

[moonslav59]

20 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

The Dombrowski model is sustainable -- if you have an owner who's willing to keep writing the checks.

The Phillies have done pretty well the last few years, Playoph Phlops notwithstanding.

 

Exactly.

We coulda, shoulda but did not.

[drewski6]

YOu guys are rehashing debates from years ago, Notin has changed his pic back to what it was in 2007(ish)

Im loving it guys.  Im fully on board with this pretending its not 2025/2026

ANybody going to get some kenny rogers chicken, tonight?

[drewski6]

9 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Yes, you keep digging in and denying it happened.

Moon returns serve with the tried and true im made of rubber, you're made of glue defense

[drewski6]

Ive got not dog in this fight, but im happy to jim ross it

my god, king.  slobberknocker!

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Yes, you keep digging in and denying it happened.

They kinda sucked due to FA pitcher injuries in '22 even though they had the same group as '21 AND went over the CBT. That's part of the cliff?

The only year they really didn't have anything put together and were between the golden years and a rebuilt Sox was 2023. That was the only team that felt directionless. 

You're selling everyone on punting one year is a cliff? Bloom's lack of moves at that deadline (and wasting money on Masa the previous offseason) is what got him fired.

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Moon returns serve with the tried and true im made of rubber, you're made of glue defense

We are both stuck to our positions.

I was a cliffdweller. MVP and others were not, and now are trying to rewrite history to say we did well from 2020-2024. All the bitching and complaining was misplaced, as we were really highly competitive on paper but just had bad luck.

Look, we all know we could have been competitive all along, but some knew JH would not spend as highly as needed from the Betts trade until the farm provided enough filler pieces to make moderate spending enough to get us to "over the cliff."

[moonslav59]

6 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

They kinda sucked due to FA pitcher injuries in '22 even though they had the same group as '21 AND went over the CBT. That's part of the cliff?

The only year they really didn't have anything put together and were between the golden years and a rebuilt Sox was 2023. That was the only team that felt directionless. 

You're selling everyone on punting one year is a cliff? Bloom's lack of moves at that deadline (and wasting money on Masa the previous offseason) is what got him fired.

We were not competitive, and that's why we needed deadline moves.

Why are you trying to say we were?

I'm not arguing we could not have been. I'm saying I knew JH would not allow spending to get us there, and that is why DD was let go and the TBR approach was brought in. It is undeniable- or at least I see it that way.