Tigers (Mize) vs Red Sox (Harrison): 9/26/25, 7:10pm

[Bellhorn04]

16 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Trout has had 1072 PAs Late & Close (.850 OPS) and 1223 in High Leverage situations (.951 OPS).

Okay, he has 15 playoff PAs (.600.) and maybe had a few meaningful ABs late in some seasons where they were still in it. My guess is, he had 2 or more hits when it counted. He repeated it. It's just not his or anyone's skill.

Trout has been in high leverage situations.

Unfortunately (I love the guy), he has been in hardly any high leverage games.  That's really what I'm getting at.

But everybody has their own take on the clutch thing.

[notin]

3 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I think Cora is a great manager, personally, and that includes his in-game moves.  Needless to say baseball managers are born to be ragged on by the armchair gang no matter what they do.  Just ask Francona.

I find his ethics questionable, to be kind…

[Maxbialystock]

2 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Cora probably didn't think he could afford to play one game without Story's bat in the line-up. 

Sept. BA: Yoshida .359, Romy .342, Story .315 -- tied with Narvaez with a team-leading 3 whole homers.

Amazing that Boston's batting order -- without Anthony, Abreu, and a replacement for Big Raffy -- still made the playoffs. Even if the Sox concede the final two games, they'll finish September at .500, which means they didn't have a losing record in any full month except May, not coincidentally also Story's worst month.

Story in May batted .158; the rest of the months combined he hit a solid .285.

 

I go by OPS, not BA, but agree with your points.  Story has had one heckuva season.  

[Bellhorn04]

8 minutes ago, notin said:

I find his ethics questionable, to be kind…

I understand that viewpoint.  

[Old Red]

18 minutes ago, notin said:

I find his ethics questionable, to be kind…

I said in the beginning that I never would have hired Cora back, and I still feel the same way. I also think Cora is way overrated as a manager, because of 2018. Having said that I think Cora is a good manager, but the Red Sox didn’t make the postseason this year, because of him, nor did the Red Sox miss the postseason the last three years, because of him.

[notin]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Disagree.

Mike Trout has never had a big clutch hit-not one that anyone knows about, at least.  Because he has generally been on crap teams.

You can probably think of a number of other great players that have never had a big clutch hit that you know of.

Obviously opportunities has a lot to do with that...

 

Oh please.

Trout has at least 3 career walk off home runs, for starters.  Hard to say this kind of stuff about a player you never followed or watched…

 

[moonslav59]

55 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

Two defensive plays that shouldn't be forgotten. Duran's game saving catch in the 1st and Lowe's double saving grab late in the game.

Great points.

Here's a great what if....

Does Rafaela catch that Rafaela triple that won the game?

[vegasbob]

The discussion on Cora a s a great, good or lousy manager is interesting, BUT  he doesn't work with the pitchers in a vacuum.

Andrew Bailey was brought in by Breslow to replace the clueless Dave Bush and i think Bailey deserves big props for working with this  menagerie of oft injured pitchers to get mileage and production out of some marginal guys, like Bernardino and Weissert.

The Sox success in 2025 is in large part to the BP work down the stretch and getting  guys like Harrison and Early ready to start .    Now if Andrew could do something with Justin Wilson........

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

17 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Great points.

Here's a great what if....

Does Rafaela catch that Rafaela triple that won the game?

I was actually thinking the same thing after he hit it. 

[Maxbialystock]

9 minutes ago, notin said:

I find his ethics questionable, to be kind…

The last thing I would call MLB is an ethical standard bearer for the American people.  

Teams have been stealing signals or trying to for over a century.  Heck the Sox did it in 2017 with a smartwatch with Dustin Pedroia happily contributing.  

So have pitchers been doctoring the baseball. 

There is absolutely, positively no "honor system" in MLB.  

Cora was justifiably nailed because the Astros were so successful at sign stealing and because they were using technology (video camera in CF seats) to enable them to.  

In a 2019 article in The Athletic, Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich wrote that technological sign-stealing was an MLB-wide problem.  I think the Commissioner or someone decided that the Astros needed to be made an example of--a decision with which I completely agree.  I also agree with banning Cora from MLB for a year.  

However, I also agree with allowing Cora to return to MLB in 2021.   I believe John Henry made it clear after the 2017 season that he did not want the Sox stealing signals via technology.  Thanks to technology sign-stealing today is a lot harder to do.  As for pitchers doctoring the ball, umpires check every pitcher when he comes off the mound.  

Do I need to bring up all the steroid use by pitchers and hitters?  

 

 

 

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Edgar Renteria. Now there's a guy who repeated his skill of clutch hitting: MVP of the 2010 World Series with two game-winning home runs... after a walkoff RBI single that won Game Seven and a ring in the 1997 World Series.

And the latter was only Edgar's second most clutch swing ever... "Back to Foulke!"

[vegasbob]

Not in the least concerned about non-existent momentum , like clutch hitting , so I would sit Bregman, Story, Narvaez and even Duran today and tomorrow, perhaps with a PH AB  each day if the lineup cycles correctly.

Play Eaton,  Hamilton, Wong  , Sogard and Refsnyder .  They could use the ABs .

And Wilson can pitch 3 innings out of the pen to wear him out .

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Players in MLB long enough will get clutch hits often. It is repeated. 

It's just not a skillset.

I agree it's not a skill set, but at the same time there are certain players who do come through in timely situations more than others. And in many cases they're not the best hitter on the team.

Also, not all baseballs that are hit hard in timely situations end up being base hits, so a little bit of luck has to be involved.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

4 minutes ago, vegasbob said:

Not in the least concerned about non-existent momentum , like clutch hitting , so I would sit Bregman, Story, Narvaez and even Duran today and tomorrow, perhaps with a PH AB  each day if the lineup cycles correctly.

Play Eaton,  Hamilton, Wong  , Sogard and Refsnyder .  They could use the ABs .

And Wilson can pitch 3 innings out of the pen to wear him out .

Early needs a good game to prove he can compete vs. playoff-caliber teams. Gotta think he's in the running for maybe one postseason roster spot along with Harrison and Tolle. Early does have the best repertoire and control, so he's got he edge right now...

[Maxbialystock]

1 hour ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

Two defensive plays that shouldn't be forgotten. Duran's game saving catch in the 1st and Lowe's double saving grab late in the game.

Duran's grab combined with how well he has been fielding in the last 3 months or so are why the Sox have the best defensive outfield in MLB now that Abreu is back.  Lowe is our best defensive 1b this season.  

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

21 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

I agree it's not a skill set, but at the same time there are certain players who do come through in timely situations more than others. And in many cases they're not the best hitter on the team.

Also, not all baseballs that are hit hard in timely situations end up being base hits, so a little bit of luck has to be involved.

A ballplayer doesn't have to just deliver in a playoff game to be considered clutch by his teammates. Any player who helps finish a victory can be clutch -- in any game; there doesn't have to be a trophy at stake.

A game-winning hit (walk-off or in a late inning), a game-saving play, pitching out of a jam, hustling on the bases to beat a throw... many of these feats occur in early frames, too, but are more noticeable late in a sport obsessed with chronology like baseball.

If you play on enough teams at enough levels for enough years, you notice guys who have a knack for coming through. Most of the time they're the best players -- but not always. Sometimes, the best players are more noticeable for not coming through...

[Maxbialystock]

56 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Great points.

Here's a great what if....

Does Rafaela catch that Rafaela triple that won the game?

Nope.  

[FredLynn]

56 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Great points.

Here's a great what if....

Does Rafaela catch that Rafaela triple that won the game?

No, but JBJ would have had it….joking. It did look like the ball wasn’t totally uncatchable. It seemed to miss the glove due to a poorly timed leap. But it was hard to tell from the replays.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Narvaez is starting catcher today -- no rest for the carnivore -- that might mean they want Early to work more with the #1 receiver in a potential playoff battery.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

1 hour ago, Maxbialystock said:

The last thing I would call MLB is an ethical standard bearer for the American people.  

Teams have been stealing signals or trying to for over a century.  Heck the Sox did it in 2017 with a smartwatch with Dustin Pedroia happily contributing.  

So have pitchers been doctoring the baseball. 

There is absolutely, positively no "honor system" in MLB.  

Cora was justifiably nailed because the Astros were so successful at sign stealing and because they were using technology (video camera in CF seats) to enable them to.  

In a 2019 article in The Athletic, Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich wrote that technological sign-stealing was an MLB-wide problem.  I think the Commissioner or someone decided that the Astros needed to be made an example of--a decision with which I completely agree.  I also agree with banning Cora from MLB for a year.  

However, I also agree with allowing Cora to return to MLB in 2021.   I believe John Henry made it clear after the 2017 season that he did not want the Sox stealing signals via technology.  Thanks to technology sign-stealing today is a lot harder to do.  As for pitchers doctoring the ball, umpires check every pitcher when he comes off the mound.  

Do I need to bring up all the steroid use by pitchers and hitters?  

 

 

 

 

 

Well said.  Ignoring the Cora connection to my  team I always felt that Astros scandal was way overblown.  As you said teams have been stealing signs for generations, including our very own team.  

[FredLynn]

12 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

The fact that our pitching ranks so highly, when we went into the season with a much maligned pen, had our IP leader (Crawford) from 2024 miss the whole season, our '24 ace (Houck) implode and then miss the rest of the season, and then watch #6 Sandoval, #7 Dobbins, #7 Fitts and others miss all or most of the season, but still end up with a decent ranking has to partially Cora's doing. Hell, Slaten missed a bunch of time, and there was talk Hendriks might win the closing job, if age caught up to Chapman.

Brez traded away Priester and Newcomb, and still Cora managed to squeeze every last ounce of success out of the whole staff.

Give the guy the props he deserves.

Hate him for the whole trashcan fiasco. I guess none of us have ever done anything bad in our lives. Hate him for a few moves that didn't work out, too well. Hate him for handling the Devers situation like an enabler, but give the guy some serious credit for pulling this off.

As of today our pitching ranks 3rd in ERA, just .02 from 2nd place Cleveland. This might have been a good year for Breslow to go all in at the TD instead of again dipping his feet into the water. 

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

57 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

No, but JBJ would have had it….joking. It did look like the ball wasn’t totally uncatchable. It seemed to miss the glove due to a poorly timed leap. But it was hard to tell from the replays.

I'm sure you were disappointed that it wasn't caught. It messed up all your predictions about the Flops, plus the fact that it was hit by Rafaela. Just a bad night for you all around.

[FredLynn]

8 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

I'm sure you were disappointed that it wasn't caught. It messed up all your predictions about the Flops, plus the fact that it was hit by Rafaela. Just a bad night for you all around.

I was absolutely crushed 

🙄

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Early needs a good game to prove he can compete vs. playoff-caliber teams. Gotta think he's in the running for maybe one postseason roster spot along with Harrison and Tolle. Early does have the best repertoire and control, so he's got he edge right now...

Agreed, but if he has a bad game, tonight, does that mean Harrison gets the 4th starter slot, when and if it arises?

I'm kinda thinking these next starts might have as much to do with 2026 as the playoffs.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

Nope.  

That hit was pretty high up on the wall, but maybe Ceddanne gets back there more quickly and can time his jump better. Not sure if he could jump higher.

[mvp 78]

3 hours ago, notin said:

I find his ethics questionable, to be kind…

Just win baby

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

 

Well said.  Ignoring the Cora connection to my  team I always felt that Astros scandal was way overblown.  As you said teams have been stealing signs for generations, including our very own team.  

Exactly. They just took it to another level. The trashcan was just how they delivered the stolen sign. Almost every team stole signs and communicated them to the batter in some way.

The Sox were even caught doing it and punished for it.

How many of us have never cheated at anything in their lives?

Cora paid a price- maybe a bigger price else. I'm over it.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, FredLynn said:

As of today our pitching ranks 3rd in ERA, just .02 from 2nd place Cleveland. This might have been a good year for Breslow to go all in at the TD instead of again dipping his feet into the water. 

I agree and have several times. I was not such a big cheerleader on getting a big bat like Suarez,but I did want an upgrade at 1B. He ended up getting Lowe, later on, and he's done okay by me. Matz has done better than the Luis Garcia's, Lucas Sims and others from past deadlines, but Dustin May was a "flop." We may have lucked out with decent showings by Early, Harrison and the one good start by Tolle.I'm not sure why you mention this so often. I don't think anyone thinks Brez did enough at the deadline, and since we don't know what deals we could have made, specifically, I find it hard to call for his firing based on unknown failed deals.

Just my take. BTW, my deadline take was we should have gone all out for Ryan, and I realize he would not have helped like I thought he would, so who am I to say Brez should be fired. Matz and Lowe have done more than Ryan would have, so as much as I think he underperformed, he did better than I would have.

SEA gave up a lot for Suarez. They gave up a lot for Naylor, too. We gave up nothing for Lowe.

[Bellhorn04]

3 hours ago, notin said:

Oh please.

Trout has at least 3 career walk off home runs, for starters.  Hard to say this kind of stuff about a player you never followed or watched…

 

I know he hasn't played in many crucial games.  And I'm not knocking the guy.  I said I loved him.  

 

[FredLynn]

15 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I agree and have several times. I was not such a big cheerleader on getting a big bat like Suarez,but I did want an upgrade at 1B. He ended up getting Lowe, later on, and he's done okay by me. Matz has done better than the Luis Garcia's, Lucas Sims and others from past deadlines, but Dustin May was a "flop." We may have lucked out with decent showings by Early, Harrison and the one good start by Tolle.I'm not sure why you mention this so often. I don't think anyone thinks Brez did enough at the deadline, and since we don't know what deals we could have made, specifically, I find it hard to call for his firing based on unknown failed deals.

Just my take. BTW, my deadline take was we should have gone all out for Ryan, and I realize he would not have helped like I thought he would, so who am I to say Brez should be fired. Matz and Lowe have done more than Ryan would have, so as much as I think he underperformed, he did better than I would have.

SEA gave up a lot for Suarez. They gave up a lot for Naylor, too. We gave up nothing for Lowe.

Ryan or Naylor should have been targets. Naylor with Seattle has an OPS+ of 138. I haven’t checked but I bet that’s better than anyone we now have. 
As I said, I’d have only fired Breslow if the Sox didn’t make the playoffs. Obviously they did. But he still did a s*** job at the TD.